Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

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Should Konqueror and Kontact be made the defaults in Mint KDE 6?

Yes
40
41%
No
57
59%
 
Total votes : 97

Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby ujwal10101 on Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:22 am

Linux Mint KDE is a KDE distro, so why were Firefox and Thunderbird chosen as the defaults when we have Konqueror and Kontact as the best KDE applications for the job? I know Firefox and T'bird are GTK applications not GNOME. But KDE applications are heavily integrated. Plus Firefox and Thunderbird use a separate widget engine which makes them run slowly and take up a lot of space on the Live DVD. (I would have also suggested replace OpenOffice with KOffice but Oo.o has better MS Office interoperability, which quite important for many people)
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby freedom on Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:04 pm

I say no.
There are very few plugins for Konq, where there are many for FF. FF gives a better user experiance.
Konq is probably a good browser for people who know linux well but if you want people to think about using Mint instead of Windows, you need to keep some things in it that they will recognize.
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby ujwal10101 on Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:26 am

People who are going to switch from windows are probably going to choose GNOME anyway, since it is the main edition and gets a lot of attention. Most people who use KDE use it because they like it and prefer it to GNOME. That's why its a community edition. So let KDE fans use KDE apps.
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby Gnarly on Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:00 pm

Well when I switched to Linux a couple of years ago, I choose KDE as the lay out is similar to windows. Gnome to me looks too cartoonish for my taste. As far as Internet Browsers go Firefox is leaps and bounds above Konqueror. I do like Konqueror as a file manager though.
Also most who switch to linux are probably already familiar with Firefox and Thunderbird and do not want to give up all the Plugins.
Anyway if I dont like a particular program I just uninstall it. Having the choice is a great thing about Linux.
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby freedom on Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:45 am

Gnarly wrote:Well when I switched to Linux a couple of years ago, I choose KDE as the lay out is similar to windows. Gnome to me looks too cartoonish for my taste. As far as Internet Browsers go Firefox is leaps and bounds above Konqueror. I do like Konqueror as a file manager though.
Also most who switch to linux are probably already familiar with Firefox and Thunderbird and do not want to give up all the Plugins.
Anyway if I dont like a particular program I just uninstall it. Having the choice is a great thing about Linux.




Exactly. And this is what I am getting at.
If you want people to adopt Linux as an OS you need to have things like FF and TB in them from the get go so they are familiar and comfortable with the new OS from the start.
No matter what the GUI is, new users need to feel at home when they first try Linux. Using a default browser and email client they are not familiar with will put people off.
It is enough that they are having to learn a new OS and new ways of doing things in it. The new OS should have things like FF and TB set so they feel more comfortable in their exploration with Linux.

In defense of Gnome. You can go in and change the theme so that it looks more like Windows or KDE, and Gnome does work more like Windows in that you have less control over the GUI in how it looks and behaves. So some people may be better with Gnome because of that.

The adoption of Linux as a main stream OS is starting to pick up, particularly with Mint. And it is in large part due to things like FF which so many people know and use (on Windows and Mac.) being part of the OS as default programs.
For people who know Linux, other browsers and mail clients are fine and can be added by choice, but new users need to feel comfortable with their new OS no matter if it is KDE, Gnome, XFCE, Fluxbox etc.
Keep the learning curve low and more people will give Linux a chance.
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby rec9140 on Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:49 pm

KDE based.... then KDE based apps should be the defaults.

Email - KMail

Browser - Konqueror

I don't use Kontact, but if its the default for whatever it does, fine, with me.

I don't care for ff and its counterpart at all, so their inclusion or exclusion is irrelevant to me, but if included then they should not be the defaults.
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby Monkwarrior on Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:47 pm

I agree.
KDE defaults would be nice.

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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby Yownanymous on Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:14 pm

I use GNOME, but I think you should use the default KDE applications for a KDE distro.
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby ronnoc on Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:07 pm

Freedom of choice is what it's all about. Use whichever one you want. I don't use Konquer or Kontact, I use TBird and Firefox. However, I do like many other KDE apps better than their Gnome equivalents. Amarok 2, Kopete, KMymoney, and KTorrent are all excellent apps and the reason I stay with KDE. "From freedom came elegance."
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby Thomas on Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:20 pm

You can install Firefox without all of GTK and Gnome, ya know, Just run this:

Code: Select all
sudo aptitude install firefox-3.0 ubufox= gksu=
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby Needs on Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:01 pm

Thomas wrote:You can install Firefox without all of GTK and Gnome, ya know, Just run this:

Code: Select all
sudo aptitude install firefox-3.0 ubufox= gksu=

sudo apt-get install krusader
sudo apt-get install vlc
sudo apt-get install amarok-kde4
sudo apt-get install avidemux-qt
sudo apt-get install kdenlive-kde4
sudo apt-get install karbon-kde4
sudo apt-get install krita-kde4
sudo apt-get install partimage
sudo apt-get install ee
sudo apt-get install mc
sudo apt-get install unrar
sudo apt-get install p7zip
...
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby GoustiFruit on Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:16 pm

No. I'm still using Windows and need to share my profiles between Linux and Windows, so I need TB. Same goes for the browser, except that I'm using preferably Opera (which can also share profiles between OSes).
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby linuxviolin on Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:42 am

freedom and Gnarly wrote:so most who switch to linux are probably already familiar with Firefox and Thunderbird

You are right about Firefox but not about Thunderbird.

I guess Firefox should be there in the menu, it is inevitable but the default browser should be set up to Konqueror. The user is free to change that after the install if he/she wants.

For mail Thunderbird is less obligatory in the default install, I guess. Even on Windows there are many mail clients and many people use others apps: Outlook Express, Outlook, The Bat! etc so it's perhaps possible to make it available in the menu but the default must be KMail (plus it's a very good mail reader, not less than Thunderbird)

Hey, KDE Desktop = KDE apps, preferably...

freedom wrote:Using a default browser and email client they are not familiar with will put people off.

No, I don't buy this! If a guy tries a new toy he/she knows he/she will find new things, novelties, if he/she doesn't want then he/she stays with his old toys ...
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby Fred on Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:41 pm

When the user in question first started using Windows they didn't know anything about the available apps. Why is it now suddenly necessary to have apps s/he was familiar with on Windows, to use Linux? That is illogical.

A new user coming from Windows should be approaching Linux as a learning experience. Learning a better way, enabling them in the long run to do more with less. A Windows user approaching Linux as a cheaper, better Windows drop-in replacement is wasting his time. He is destined to be disappointed, and you do him no favors by tricking him into believing otherwise.

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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby linuxviolin on Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:08 pm

Fred, I like you :lol: :mrgreen: Well said! :!:
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby GoustiFruit on Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:24 am

I don't agree with Fred. When you have used a system for a long time, you have all your data in specific formats and softwares, you don't want to lose them all just for the sake of changing your OS. Usually you want to migrate slowly, you need to find your marks, and most probably you don't decide from one day to the other to simply abandon Windows for another system, which you absolutely don't know.
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby linuxviolin on Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:45 am

GoustiFruit, this can be valid for Firefox but not really for Thunderbird. As I said in my last post Firefox is inevitable and it must be in the menu but by default "the browser should be set up to Konqueror". About Thunderbird, also as I said, "even on Windows there are many mail clients and many people use others apps: Outlook Express, Outlook, The Bat! etc" so I don't think Thunderbird is inevitable, it may not be there...

And if a user makes the choice to change his/her OS, we can suppose he/she knows he/she will find new things... If not, if he wants to regain his/her Windows in Linux then he/she should stay with Windows. Linux MUST NOT be and become a new Windows!
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby ronnoc on Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:58 pm

There is nothing about Firefox and Thunderbird that make them windows applications. They run essentially the same on all major OS's. However, If Mint 6 KDE ships with all KDE defaults I am fine with that. And maybe, upon some thought, I can even agree with it. The mail app is no longer an issue for me since I essentially ditched pop mail accounts and TBird/Lightning for gmail and google calendar.
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby Fred on Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:46 am

GoustiFruit wrote:
I don't agree with Fred. When you have used a system for a long time, you have all your data in specific formats...

Congratulations sir, you have now joined the horde of many! :-)

My point was not formats. Converting formats from proprietary to open is always going to be a tedious and frustrating task, no matter when it is done. This is part of the lock-in most Windows converts are attempting to escape. It won't be easy or fun.

Attempting to remain with proprietary programs as much as possible only makes the eventual task of conversion more difficult. Yes, there are some applications that are reasonably open on Windows as well as Linux, but they are few. The sooner you make the decision to break with the past and move on, as with many things in life, the better off you will be.

Being an old dumb country boy I look at it like straddling a fence. If you slip the results will be painful. The sooner you get off the fence the better. :-)

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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby Eddie Wilson on Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:18 am

I agree that KDE should contain KDE apps. But there is nothing wrong with Firefox being included also. The e-mail clients are a moot point. As far as people saying Linux shouldn't act like MS Windows is not really a point at all. LInux is not going to act like Windows because its not, so thats more of a wasted comment. Furthermore there is nothing wrong for a person wanting their Linux install to look like or to be somewhat familiar to the os they used before. The statement made that If they want Windows, they should just use Windows, makes really no sense and really is irrelevant. People are looking for a replacement for MS Windows or they wouldn't give Linux a second thought and I believe LinuxMInt is made the way it is for that purpose. People should concentrate on Linux more and not really worry about MS Windows. What would be the point?
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