Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

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Should Konqueror and Kontact be made the defaults in Mint KDE 6?

Yes
40
41%
No
57
59%
 
Total votes : 97

Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby linuxviolin on Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:02 am

Eddie Wilson wrote:But there is nothing wrong with Firefox being included also.

Yes. As I said Firefox seems inevitable but the default browser must be Konqueror.

Eddie Wilson wrote:The e-mail clients are a moot point.

As I said also, there are many clients and many people use other clients than Thunderbird, even on Windows, so it's not at all inevitable and the default must be KMail.

About Windows vs Linux, I am in complete disagree with you. "a wasted comment"? "irrelevant"? I don't think so, sorry. And "LInux is not going to act like Windows because its not", hmm with crap like compiz, Mono, distrib which remove the root password for certain administrative tasks etc, yes, some people seeks to make Linux like Windows... "People are looking for a replacement for MS Windows ", Linux is not, must not be a replacement but an alternative to Windows, it's not the same thing. If Linux becomes a "replacement", or an "equivalent", to Windows, that is the end/death of Linux, we will have to seek refuge elsewhere :x
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby kage on Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:56 pm

Linuxiolin wrote: and the default must be KMail.
:x


Linux is all about freedom. Freedom to install or remove what you like and/or what you need.

Mint works fine for me although i do not have the same taste as Boo.
So i simple grab what i feel fine with and delete what i don't need.
No 2 persons are equal.

Why shouldn't every user have his/her freedom of choice?

have fun!
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby ronnoc on Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:10 pm

I am now firmly in agreement with those who say that a KDE 4.2 version of Mint should have all KDE apps as the installed default. After all, if you are not going to use ANY of the KDE apps, why not just stick with the main edition? Just my 2 cents. Can't wait for the RC.
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby linuxviolin on Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:38 pm

kage wrote:
Linuxiolin wrote: and the default must be KMail.
:x


Linux is all about freedom. Freedom to install or remove what you like and/or what you need.

Mint works fine for me although i do not have the same taste as Boo.
So i simple grab what i feel fine with and delete what i don't need.
No 2 persons are equal.

Why shouldn't every user have his/her freedom of choice?

have fun!
kage

You misunderstand this topic! Obviously the user has the choice but we talk here about the default apps, Mint must have default apps at install, right? Of course after install the user makes what he/she wants but it's not the problem here, I'm sorry.
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby kage on Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:05 pm

linuxviolin wrote:
kage wrote:
Linuxiolin wrote: and the default must be KMail.
:x


Linux is all about freedom. Freedom to install or remove what you like and/or what you need.

Mint works fine for me although i do not have the same taste as Boo.
So i simple grab what i feel fine with and delete what i don't need.
No 2 persons are equal.

Why shouldn't every user have his/her freedom of choice?

have fun!
kage

You misunderstand this topic! Obviously the user has the choice but we talk here about the default apps, Mint must have default apps at install, right? Of course after install the user makes what he/she wants but it's not the problem here, I'm sorry.


No i didn't
If you and i have freedom of choice, why shouldn't have the mint dev team?

greetz from Holland
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby linuxviolin on Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:04 am

kage wrote:If you and i have freedom of choice, why shouldn't have the mint dev team?

In whatever way, it's the Mint Team who decides at the end. But it must not listen advices, suggestions of the users? If we follow your reasoning, it makes what it wants as it wants, without consultation and if you don't like, what? Shut up or go out? Hmm not really the right spirit, this doesn't remember that good things... And it looks a bit like the Microsoft politic, right? I decide, you follow... :roll: (ok ok, I know, you have the possibility for changing everything after install if you want, but the default config, apps... are very important and they can make a user will like or not the distro and so if he/she will use it for example... The first impression is an important thing)

Mint, like other distros need default apps and it seems important the users give their opinion, especially for a Community Edition, and don't forget, distros are made for the users, again especially a Community Edition, so users advices are always interesting. Period. :D
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby kage on Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:25 am

linuxviolin wrote:
kage wrote:If you and i have freedom of choice, why shouldn't have the mint dev team?

In whatever way, it's the Mint Team who decides at the end. But it must not listen advices, suggestions of the users? If we follow your reasoning, it makes what it wants as it wants, without consultation and if you don't like, what? Shut up or go out? Hmm not really the right spirit, this doesn't remember that good things... And it looks a bit like the Microsoft politic, right? I decide, you follow... :roll: (ok ok, I know, you have the possibility for changing everything after install if you want, but the default config, apps... are very important and they can make a user will like or not the distro and so if he/she will use it for example... The first impression is an important thing)

Mint, like other distros need default apps and it seems important the users give their opinion, especially for a Community Edition, and don't forget, distros are made for the users, again especially a Community Edition, so users advices are always interesting. Period. :D


Hi Linuxviolin

You've made you're point (again). You're tone however is not the way a discussion should go.
Good luck with what you are doing.

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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby linuxviolin on Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:54 am

My point??? :shock: I'm saying that all opinions, propositions are important and welcome, that users must be able to give their opinion etc and this is not good for you? Of course I can give only my opinion, but maybe you, you can talk for someone else than for you...? (it's a little joke, not be taken too seriously :wink: )

About my tone, I'm sorry but English is not my native language and even if I can cope in English, sometimes through a translator, I can not speak to perfection, and sometimes seem a bit "harsh", although here I do not see the problem....

You say: "is not the way a discussion should go." OK, if you want, but what discussion? You have not given your advice about the topic but just that the Mint Team has the choice, decides and the user just "grab what i feel fine with and delete what i don't need." So then, no discussion? You just take and discard if or what you don't like? Then no need opinions, propositions, discussions... Interesting :roll:
Last edited by linuxviolin on Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby rec9140 on Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:52 pm

While I am not advocating the removal of programs as the subject of the thread does

I am:

1) As a KDE distro, then KDE apps should be the defaults ie: web: Konqueror, email: Kmail, etc..

2) Include other clients all you want. Fill up the DVD with 5-6 email, browsers, etc.. that's fine with me. Everyone can easily make their choice from the programs included.

3) If the aforementioned programs were not on the distro, I wouldn't miss them.

There's an underlying point in all this....

Is the user community of the distro going to have any input at all in what direction the distro heads or is it strictly Boo & the dev team? Input here and the suggestions thread...what amount of that "community" input was used?

While I vehemently disagree with the poll results here :twisted: :evil: , the "community" has spoken.

Fine, so be it. KControl and correct it.

Its not going to take to long before the minority of the community will say "this distro no longer meets my needs/goals" and moves on.

KMint utpo Elyssa meets my needs for the most part, a few customizations like Kmail and some Konqi settings and things are back to "right."

I am very grateful of the time, effort, blood, sweat, tears that Boo and others put into the KMint version. I suggest KMint any chance I get for newcomers and old timers of Linux.

Unfortunately I will be parting ways come Felicia it appears from the comments I am seeing, that's depressing. I moved desktops at home, office and laptop to Elyssa and/or Darnya, but Felicia KMint and I are not compatible :cry: (4.x :evil: :twisted: ).

As a community member I and others (I don't speak or post for others, I am taking a guess based on posts) would like to have at least a modest amount of input on what happens in the KMint Distro (so your understand my perspective there is only one Linux Mint, KMint, the KDE Version, the other version I am sure is a fine distro, but its not for me due to many things starting with that g word :x )

Theres a few things I think Boo & The KMint Devel team should decide such as ISO Image will be a DVD.

Community decided items:

OpenOffice Version - I prefer to have the latest released, 3.x
KDE - NOT TOUCHING THIS. My position is well known here, and I am in the minority.
Programs - I am of the opinion I've got ~ 3G of space after the base distro stuff, FILL IT UP!
Codecs - decss, MP3, WMA, etc. MUST be on the DVD. And no I don't support having a version that doesn't have these.

At least put up a poll and take into account the view point of the "community."

If the decision is not that same as the community, EXPLAIN IT. Don't "We decided KMail will not be added to the ISO."

Same here. "Xyz likes thunderturd, so its the default. Use KControl and change to your preferred client."

Explain why! COMMUNICATION, COMMUNICATION, COMMUNICATION. Lack of it is just as bad as too much. I may not agree with your decision, opinion or reasons for your decision, but at least the facts are out on what happened. Not some dark back room secret that this or that theory, some anon post "I am on the dev team, but can' t post, but abcde1234 hates Kmail and despises rec9140, so NO KMAIL FOR YOU!" Even if thats the truth, post it. Take a number on my despised list, :D I think the next is 6billion and some change. :) :D I missed the day when "how to win friends and influence people" was the topic. :D
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby mintlover62 on Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:36 pm

I've installed the KDE CE RC1 in Virtualbox, and I must say that if Firefox is to be the default, it should come with the KFirefox theme. The default Firefox theme just doesn't work in KDE.

Besides that, I believe that Konqueror should be default with Firefox as secondary. However, Konqueror doesn't render websites like Yahoo! Answers as well as Firefox (it leaves out parts), and I never could figure out how to make Flash Player work in it. If Konqueror could be made to use Firefox's rendering engine and Flash Player worked out of the box, then it should be default, otherwise Firefox may need to stand in for it. With the KFirefox theme, of course.

Thunderbird vs Kontact is a different story. Kontact undoubtedly looks much better in KDE than Thunderbird... except that the mail component doesn't work in the RC. I believe that Kontact should be default, if Kmail worked out of the box. Thunderbird should still be included as secondary.

Actually, I think all KDE programs should replace their GTK+ equivalents, if they work properly.
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby slider on Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:06 am

@ Fred

You always put things so well and straight to the Linux point... :)



EDIT:


I just noticed that the majority of my post here did not appear for some reason? I guess before when I posted, my copy and paste was not complete (I sometimes write my reply in a text editor when Im busy and post it as soon as I have time using copy and paste) and I must have navigated away from the page without checking it. Im sorry about that. :oops: I should of checked better. I must of been in a big hurry that day. Its been awhile and I cant remember exactly what I said before, so I will try again to contribute. Again my apologies. :)


To a certain point I feel that it does make sense that only KDE apps should be default in KDE. When first trying LM 6 Felicia KDE live dvd, dolphin came up as the default file browser, which I have never really used much before. konqueror has always been the file browser that I was use to, but dolphin seemed to do a fine job, it was just different. Not a bad thing.

I have used konqueror as a web browser before (mainly for testing) and it seemed to work great, with flash and sound. It was just different. Again not a bad thing. Im use to firefox for web a browser, and sometimes opera for testing. We all get use to seeing and doing things a certain way I think. It may be worth noting from my testing, that while firefox can be used as a file browser, konqueror far out shines it in that dual purpose role. Firefox's main purpose = a web browser, and konqueror's = a great multitude of uses.

My vote here however was no, because I feel that KDE defines the desktop "environment" mainly and not the defaulted apps. The same would apply to any desktop environment whether its Gnome, XFCE, etc. We are Linux users and these defaulted apps should be applied accordingly to their overall popularity by Linux users, and not by M$ users. This is where the importance of being in touch and in communication with the Linux community of the distro comes into play by the developers. They must know, talk to and listen to their respective communities. I feel our Dev team does this job pretty well. In the end, users will change their personal systems to the apps and settings that they like to use, which is just one of the joys of Linux!
Last edited by slider on Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

Postby Meteor on Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:18 am

I've just located this thread as I'm looking at installing KDE CE just because it's "new". I've tried Felicia's KDE LiveDVD release and i'm intrigued.

This thread has provided a vast variety of opinions with FF and TB staying slightly in the lead. Myself, I've never had much experience with the KDE browser and mail program as they've never been at the forefront. After quickly reading through this thread, I'm going to download Felicia KDE CE, install and work with Kontact and ?? (forgotten the other program's name...). It'll take some work to get my bookmarks (or whatever the designation is for KDE) and email address list set up again, but I'm up to a challenge.

On a very early spring day here in the north of Canada, this will be an interesting exercise. I see that it'll take me over two hours to download Felicia and as I am off to work now that'll be done later this afternoon or in the early evening.

I shall eventually report back, if there's an interest... I shall offer my vote for the default programs then, too.

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