KDE3 gone KDE4 in - Now Mint-Meta-KDE?

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KDE3 gone KDE4 in - Now Mint-Meta-KDE?

Postby enigma on Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:35 pm

Well I finally did it!

I put in a virgin hard drive and loaded Mint 8 CE KDE 4.3. Had to. K3B was burning 1 out 4 backup DL DVDs (read as ruined 3 out of 4) . K3B support gave me the usual "load the latest version and see if it still happens." KDE wrote back, "we no longer support KDE3." Another 2+ year old security program wasn't equipped to handle something new. There are benefits to using an LTS (stability) but there are down sides (old software versions).

The LTS was good but I still upgraded individual apps that were important to me. I wanted the latest for security purposes. Now that brings me to my reason for being here.

Two of those apps are Firefox and Thunderbird. I removed both in KDE3 and substituted the latest tar versions in /opt. It seems that I cannot do that anymore. I also want to remove Wine. I never use Windows software.

The problem is Mint-Meta-KDE is to be removed when I remove any of the above. A meta package usually is a bundle of software that is to be installed as a group. Once installed the package is just a shell and can be removed. This doesn't appear to be the same. When this happened I noted that Mint-Meta-KDE contained about 50+ programs for removal.

Please help me with,

1. Will removing the meta package actually remove the 50+ programs?

2. In the past when backed into a corner I used locate and whereis to physically delete the 'problem' directories. Is this the option now?

3. I am not specifically knowledgeable on this issue, is there another choice? There always is another choice.

Thanks. Appreciate the help.
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Re: KDE3 gone KDE4 in - Now Mint-Meta-KDE?

Postby viking777 on Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:02 pm

I sympathise entirely with your plight.

Losing KDE3 is like losing a loved one, someone that could be relied upon and was always there for you.

Getting KDE4 is like getting gonorrhoea, you wonder why it had to happen to you.

Now to your problem. I don't have gonorrhoea - sorry I mean KDE4 - so I don't know anything about it, but I seriously doubt that they could have altered the meaning of a meta-package, and you already answered your own question on those package types. Look through the 50+ programs listed and see if any of them mean anything to you, but my guess is that most of them will start with libxxx or some such and will have been replaced by KDE 4 equivalents.
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Re: KDE3 gone KDE4 in - Now Mint-Meta-KDE?

Postby enigma on Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:06 pm

The package gives this readout. If it is a meta file then removing will do no damage unfortunately not all packagers adhere to the same rules. Innovation works. Linux is an example.

Not all of them are library files.

sudo aptitude show mint-meta-kde
Package: mint-meta-kde
State: installed
Automatically installed: no
Version: 8.1.0
Priority: optional
Section: admin
Maintainer: Jamie Birse <boo.birse@gmail.com>
Uncompressed Size: 32.8k
Depends: linuxmint-keyring, mint-info-kde | mint-info, sun-java6-bin, sun-java6-jre, sun-java6-plugin, firefox,
thunderbird, mint-search-addon, cowsay, fortunes, cups-pdf, mintwelcome, mintbackup, mintinstall, mintnanny,
mintsystem, mintupdate, mintupload, mintwifi, grub2-theme-mint-kde, usplash-theme-mint-kde,
ksplash-theme-mint-kde, mint-artwork-kde, kdm-theme-mint-kde, ndisgtk, ndiswrapper-common,
ndiswrapper-utils-1.9, lightning-extension, pppoe, samba, ttf-dejavu, ttf-dejavu-extra, ttf-liberation,
fusesmb, ntfs-3g, testdisk, guarddog, gdebi-kde, plasma-scriptengine-superkaramba, wvdial, xsane, vlc,
kscreensaver, kscreensaver-xsavers-extra, digikam, showfoto, kdeaccessibility, libk3b6-extracodecs, lame, flac,
kubuntu-restricted-extras, partitionmanager, google-gadgets-qt, openssh-server, filezilla, songbird, wine,
kscd, frostwire, gstreamer0.10-esd, gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg, gstreamer0.10-pitfdll, gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad,
gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse, gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly, gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse,
libdvdcss2, libdvdnav4, libdvdread4, cabextract, flashplugin-nonfree, java-common, openoffice.org-java-common,
unrar, unshield, w32codecs, moonlight-plugin-mozilla, tucan, minitube, vim, inxi, mint-md5sum-kde, kgpg,
kinfocenter, mozilla-mplayer, rootactions-servicemenu, gecko-mediaplayer, python-notify, python-pyinotify,
kdenetwork-filesharing
Description: All the packages installed by default in the KDE Edition of Linux Mint
All the packages installed by default in the KDE Edition of Linux Mint.

I have added the KDE4.4.0 repositories so I will do an upgrade. I will get brave after a full backup and click "Y" to remove the package.

Thank You

ps: You are right about KDE 4. It is not as superior as KDE 3.5.10. It is slower and not as refined YET. Time will change that.
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Re: KDE3 gone KDE4 in - Now Mint-Meta-KDE?

Postby viking777 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:57 am

I can certainly see why you would not want to remove all that lot but I still don't think it will. If you install mint-meta-kde it will pull in all those dependencies certainly, but it won't remove them when you uninstall it.

It is just my opinion though - I have been wrong before now!
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Re: KDE3 gone KDE4 in - Now Mint-Meta-KDE?

Postby feed3 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:51 am

I've trashing my system before this when trying to revert from kde 4.4 to 4.3.5 as playing around with meta package.
When i'm doing an upgrade from kde 4.3.5 to 4.4, it doesnt seem to harm my system but, when am removing the mint-meta-kde thing from kde4.4 or kde4.3.5 alone(not as per requirement from the upgrading process) it also remove all the deps of it. (very)not sure why and is it a norm but at least that's what happened to me though. Maybe you can cope to not remove both of the apps and just install your preferred alternative apps? Just a suggestion. :-)

enigma wrote: I will get brave after a full backup and click "Y" to remove the package.


That's the best to do! :-)
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Re: KDE3 gone KDE4 in - Now Mint-Meta-KDE?

Postby viking777 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:07 am

feed3 wrote:I've trashing my system before this when trying to revert from kde 4.4 to 4.3.5 as playing around with meta package.
When i'm doing an upgrade from kde 4.3.5 to 4.4, it doesnt seem to harm my system but, when am removing the mint-meta-kde thing from kde4.4 or kde4.3.5 alone(not as per requirement from the upgrading process) it also remove all the deps of it. (very)not sure why and is it a norm but at least that's what happened to me though. Maybe you can cope to not remove both of the apps and just install your preferred alternative apps? Just a suggestion. :-)

enigma wrote: I will get brave after a full backup and click "Y" to remove the package.


That's the best to do! :-)


Wow, that is astonishing - glad I don't use KDE any more!
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Re: KDE3 gone KDE4 in - Now Mint-Meta-KDE?

Postby feed3 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:25 am

viking777 wrote:Wow, that is astonishing - glad I don't use KDE any more!

Haha.. But i'm certainly satisfied with the mint kde but if the new gnome (ain't sure what they call it, gnome shell or gnome 3?) can be more beautiful and most importantly more stable than kde. As for now, i will stick to kde 4.3.5 though. Always miss the beauty (in term of look) of kde whenever i use gnome 2. More to my personal preferences after all. :-)
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Re: KDE3 gone KDE4 in - Now Mint-Meta-KDE?

Postby rec9140 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:48 am

You ran in to the same thing I found during my testing...

I checked:

mono - DISEASE free! :D

wine - confused is this crap in here... ok remove it.... CAN'T if you remove it the entire Mint-Meta-KDE has to be dumped. :evil: :evil:


My wine comes in a bottle, and I don't want this serious security hole on my PC. This is why I use Linux....

So about the best I can think of is to find the actual files of wine, and just rm -rf them by hand and nuke the directory.

KMint Devs - +1 for no diseases, -2 for including wine.

For KMint 9 please REMOVE WINE from the default install, its not needed.
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Re: KDE3 gone KDE4 in - Now Mint-Meta-KDE?

Postby viking777 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:05 am

If they put crap like wine on it no wonder it won't fit onto a cd - which is yet another reason not to use KDE.
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Re: KDE3 gone KDE4 in - Now Mint-Meta-KDE?

Postby lenoirrichelieu on Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:32 am

Hmm. I could adopt a position like Solomon: one is right and the other is right too.
I think Mint KDE developers aspire for a world wide, free and ease to use distro. For this reason they liked the idea of including those pieces of software which can cover most of work which is done on modern computers by any user.
Regarding the wine whining I like the idea of having this particular program integrated and tested by developers. It fits in the concept of ease and ready to use distro. Most of us, especially OOTB distro users, accept the idea of having software which we don't use just for having instead a stable system. If any wants a system free of so-called bloat software maybe should go for another distro like Archlinux.

Anyway I think there is a method to purge the software you don't want but skipping the dependencies issue and this is:

apt-get remove --force-yes <PACKAGENAME

As an ironic note: many complain about Slackware's package management which cares not about dependencies and praise the apt-get. Now we see a reverse case.
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Re: KDE3 gone KDE4 in - Now Mint-Meta-KDE?

Postby rec9140 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:51 am

viking777 wrote:If they put crap like wine on it no wonder it won't fit onto a cd - which is yet another reason not to use KDE.


We are going to part ways on that....

1) CD.. NO thanks.. Needs to be a DVD, and fill all 4GB's up... When all I had was ISDN at 128K I still downloaded ISO DVD's all 4GB worth, thanks I don't want a CD.

2) KDE, till 4.x ROCKS... and IF and ONLY IF, KDE gets their act together will it rock again. I've seen huge improvements, but there are things I try to do, and they no longer work... nope not going to change my methods... no dolphin (BLLCK!), system:/media, where the !$@!$!@ IS IT???? krdc is so fubar'd now I can't access things, a simple elegant connection menu is now so bloated... huge steps backwards.. and I don't see a way to get krdc back to its simple elegant form.

3) g*censored*e has HUGE issues from the whole way it works, operates, to its deal with the devil(s) and entanglement with the disease... no thanks.
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Re: KDE3 gone KDE4 in - Now Mint-Meta-KDE?

Postby viking777 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:53 pm

Yeah well I am not really the one to be commenting on KDE, I consigned it to the dustbin ages ago.

Strangely though the only thing I found an improvement in KDE4 was Dolphin.

So I guess we are really going to have to part ways then :lol: :lol:

PS Having said that I mean an improvement over Konqueror (and that is not difficult). Both of them are still infinitely inferior to Krusader.
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Re: KDE3 gone KDE4 in - Now Mint-Meta-KDE?

Postby rec9140 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:58 pm

lenoirrichelieu wrote:Regarding the wine whining I like the idea of having this particular program integrated and tested by developers. It fits in the concept of ease and ready to use distro. Most of us, especially OOTB distro users, accept the idea of having software which we don't use just for having instead a stable system. If any wants a system free of so-called bloat software maybe should go for another distro like Archlinux.


You are either here to:

1) Use Linux

2) FORCE LINUX into being a winslobbber clone...

I am #1... Here to use *nix... I want nothing to do with ms, novel, suse, gnome, mono and its ilk. Thats why I use Linux.

There are applications for the most part that are able to take up where you need to OpenOffice, GIMP, KMail, and others... I use Linux DAILY to interchange stuff back and forth with the winslaves... they know I don't use w, but they don't know it from our interactions....

KMint does all that an OOTB distro needs to via LINUX software... plays media, runs java, email, browsing, office applications etc.. ... continuing to hold hands with the enemy is not getting Linux any where, just more and more reliance on something we need to get rid of.

wine is a security hole. Why would any one want an API that is riddled with security problems known and unknown on a OS that is free of those issues? I don't.. if wine is going to be included then it needs to be made REMOVABLE with out trashing the entire system via apt/synaptic

for now rm -rf /usr/lib/wine/
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