KDE stable release

[belovedmonster]

An alien would never be as smart as Boo. An alien wouldn't be able to make the best KDE distro in the world!

I disagree. I think an Alien would have a bug free version of KDE4 finished by now

[roadrash]

Help I'm in serious pain and i need a pain relief remedy called Mint 4.0 KDE edition

[akshunj]

Help I'm in serious pain and i need a pain relief remedy called Mint 4.0 KDE edition

Are you sure you don't just need more cowbell?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=q4royOLtvmQ

[molom]

KDE4 being released in 2 days!

[Fred]

naturalblue does bring up a good question. Not being that familiar with the mint community, could someone please point me in the right direction to find out how the development/release process works? The only KDE beta I saw on the download page was the 011 release. Is there a separate development ftp server? Are they open betas or is there some kind of closed beta pool? Usually it is desirable to get widespread testing and feedback on betas.

I apoligize in advance if I am asking obvious questions. I just haven't yet dug deeply enough to know mint's development structure.

Have a nice day.

Fred

[merlwiz79]

These are internal Betas that get tested until Exploder thinks it ready for everyone else to test it.
Then it goes to Clem and he makes the final decision.

[belovedmonster]

If all the Mint developers are passing betas back and forth between themselves I don't know why they don't make them available on a page somewhere.

[Fred]

merlwiz79,

Thank you.

Fred

[merlwiz79]

If all the Mint developers are passing betas back and forth between themselves I don't know why they don't make them available on a page somewhere.

Sorry, I didn't give enough detail.
1st the Community Developer Creates the Beta and tests it.
If bugs are found then the Community Developer fixes the bugs and creates another Beta.
This process is done until the Community Developer can't find anymore bugs on their own.
Then it get's uploaded to a private server for Exploder to download and test.(there is a check list that both the Developer and Exploder go through)
If any more bugs are found by Exploder, it may go back to the Developer to fix and then back again.
Once Exploder can't find anymore bugs or has some minor bugs that aren't going to stop the beta release, it gets sent to Clem.
He then tests it and decides if it will be released or not.
Then Clem releases it on the Main website and in the Forums.

[dracorX]

well

I really like mint kde.

But with the process you describe, I can't see why it's called "community edition" if the community can't even help with testing?

Another thing is that some problems might only occur on certain configurations, which can't be found by 2 persons - except they have all the gazillion configurations available for them?

I really do like mint kde, and boo does a great job. But that - sorry, it's just my opinion - doesn't fit the definitions of an open process as usually in OSS...

Greetings
(BTW . i would so like helping with tests)

[belovedmonster]

belovedmonster, they're closed internal Beta's. Not open.

You might as well have answered my question with "Just because", as that is all this reply amounts to. Yes they are internal betas, what I am saying is why do they have to be internal betas?

Surely the point of open source is release early, release often, and get as many people as possible to offer feedback. Having everything behind closed doors seems to go against that.

All the big name distros allow users to download pre-release version if they choose to. From Alphas, all the way through to release candidates. They obviously see a benefit in doing this so why cant Mint benefit from it?

All it would take would be a developers page on the website which is entirely separate from the normal download page, so people interested can get the latest version to help test it but casual users aren't going to stumble upon a beta and decide to try that instead.

I'm just starting to wonder if maybe for Mint to go forward it needs to start making use of this community more. Like take the User Guide for example. Clem wrote 75 pages of guide for that. Why wasn't the community already writing a User Guide as part of the Wiki? I'd sooner have Clem working on Mint 5 than writing a User Guide from scratch. I would have gladly chipped in some work on a Wiki had there been a post by Clem or who ever asking for it.

[Boo]

The short answer is bandwidth costs money.
I will release more betas in the future but they may have to be torrent only.
I think torrents are much better any way.
after the first beta we may have to release a weekly or fortnightly beta release.

Cheers
Boo

[belovedmonster]

Torrents are better anyways

[Fred]

Greetings and Salutations Boo,

Since I am brand spanking new here I hesitate to say much on the subject, but I will give you the benefit of a few observations, for what they are worth. Hopefully you will forgive my arrogance.

My experience has been that when an alpha, beta, or rc is released to the public the number of bugs over time rises to a point and then falls off and plateaus. At this point the beta has done its job. When the majority of these bugs have been dealt with then another public beta is released and the process is repeated. At some point the bugs found in public beta testing don't justify the effort and expense. That is when the finishing touches are applied and an rc is released. If no bugs sufficient to stop the release are found then it gets the final polishing and goes gold. The betas are not on a schedule but are determined by the bug feedback. After all, they are not to satisfy end users but to aid development. End users shouldn't be using them anyway, only people willing to test buggy software and report problems.

If the beta releases are abused, ie everybody wants to download and few are willing to report bugs, then you could devise some kind of limited pool based on merit. Example: Let everybody that wishes to test make a request detailing the type of equipment they are willing to test on. Then select a cross section of a manageable number. If some don't live up to their agreement to test and report then replace them for the next beta with someone with like equipment. In time you will have a consistently good testing team. As resources increase with growth the testing team can be expanded in number.

Of course there are as many different ways of getting user feedback as there are people doing it. This is just one way that seems to have worked reasonably well in the past. You will always have complaints of "why not me" but hey, life is tough and not always 100% fair. Everyone at least knows that a committee based on merit is representing them in the process and you, the release manager, will get the benefit of more widely tested code.

Again, please forgive me for speaking out of turn. I wouldn't for a second presume to tell you how to do your job. These are only historical observations on my part.

Have good day,

Fred

[gman2]

Torrents are only better when people are seeding. I have yet to successfully download a Mint ISO using torrent because seeding is almost next to nothing. Also, some businesses, organizations, libraries, places with WiFi block torrent downloads. You need to have non torrent download ISO's or the user base will be limited.

[belovedmonster]

Who is gunna sign up to be a beta tester if their only internet connection is at work or a public library? Sorry this might be a flaw of torrents in general but has no bearing in this particular case.

Also; I've gotten every release of Mint from torrent so far. It usually takes me about 30 minutes to download (if you download after the initial 24 hour hump of everyone reading the announcement). So I dont know why you have had problems with downloading Mint in the past. If there's a problem with the number of seeders then perhaps you could raise the issue in a new post, I'm sure people would gladly start seeding if they knew there wasn't enough.

Edit: I just started the torrent going to see what happened and after a few minutes there were 27 seeders and 5 peers. Seems like a fine connection to me. Maybe not super fast with those numbers but fast enough to complete in a reasonable time.

[gman2]

I read it to mean that the torrents are better not only for Beta Testing but for future releases. If that is the case than it is entirely possible for someone to want to download the release from outside their home and in that case it is possible for them to be denied if the Internet connection is setup to block torrents. I can't download torrents at work, they are monitored and in some cases blocked.

If you go torrent only your user base goes down. Not everyone wants to use torrents. I stopped using torrents for downloading ISO's. If Mint KDE CE goes torrent only for ISO downloads I guess I will be one of many that will simply not use it. What major distros use torrent for their only or primary download option? None. All use normal FTP or HTTP download as the primary download method. This is only area I disagree with this whole discussion. I believe that the handling of beta testing the release is a good one.

[roadrash]

Edit: I just started the torrent going to see what happened and after a few minutes there were 27 seeders and 5 peers. Seems like a fine connection to me. Maybe not super fast with those numbers but fast enough to complete in a reasonable time.

So where is this torrent?

[belovedmonster]

Edit: I just started the torrent going to see what happened and after a few minutes there were 27 seeders and 5 peers. Seems like a fine connection to me. Maybe not super fast with those numbers but fast enough to complete in a reasonable time.

So where is this torrent?

It's the first link on the download page for Mint 4.0

[Zwopper]

...hmmm...
I've been tinkering around with the KDE version for a while now,
and as much as i HATE to admit it ( I have a hangup with KDE) - I actually like it...

Great work from Boo and everyone else involved - Keep it up!
...and most of all, keep it as Minty as it is, 'cause that's what does it for me!


****old mental muttering****
ME running KDE - N O W A A A Y !
******************************************
...now I'm actually <K>onsidering it

...goes to show, that a piece of coal actually DOES become a diamond, it just takes a drop of Mint to get the process going!