Ideas for Felicia XFCE CE

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Re: Ideas for Felicia XFCE CE

Postby kanishka on Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:15 pm

beranger wrote:2. Applet to be loaded by default: xfce4-clipman-plugin, for the newbies might not know you should not close the source application before pasting into the target application!

:shock: :shock:
AARGH so that's why!!! It's the same in KDE, I didn't know... Ok I'm a n00b :oops:
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Re: Ideas for Felicia XFCE CE

Postby beranger on Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:25 pm

In KDE you should have Klipper active (it's active by default in many distros, but not all) to have a full clipboard management. Isn't Klipper started by default in Mint KDE? (I thought it was.)
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Re: Ideas for Felicia XFCE CE

Postby merlwiz79 on Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:18 pm

kanishka wrote:
beranger wrote:2. Applet to be loaded by default: xfce4-clipman-plugin, for the newbies might not know you should not close the source application before pasting into the target application!

:shock: :shock:
AARGH so that's why!!! It's the same in KDE, I didn't know... Ok I'm a n00b :oops:

LOL I completely forgot that there was a clipboard plugin. :shock:
I was looking at Parcellite as a possible one but it used too much RAM.
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Re: Ideas for Felicia XFCE CE

Postby beranger on Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:35 am

A couple of some more questions to be addressed for Felicia:
  • Are you aware of xfce4-taskmanager, which is much lighter than gnome-system-monitor? Could Felicia be more XFCE-centric?
  • Also about the XFCE-centricity: how about Ristretto for the default image viewer?
  • Xfburn is already quite good, it knows about DVDs now, and you could already use the latest version, not the one provided by Ubuntu. See this (for a screenshot), and this for the burning options. Could Xfburn be on the CD?
  • Why do we use GNOME's notification-daemon instead of the xfce-notification-daemon?
  • Why do we need to start the GNOME services by default? Isn't this consuming the RAM to the point of not making such a big difference between GNOME and XFCE? Oh, and why can't I kill gnome-vfs-daemon without having it up again?
About the situation of having the GNOME services started, see the blog post To XFCE, or not to XFCE? for a surprise finding of the negligible difference between running Nautilus and running Thunar:

In terms of Resident Memory:
  • about 12 MB for a Thunar window ($HOME)
  • about 23 MB for a Nautilus window ($HOME)
In terms of Virtual Memory (although the swap is no problem):
  • about 82 MB for a Thunar window ($HOME)
  • about 66 MB for a Nautilus window ($HOME)
Oops?!

(But don't shoot the piano man!)
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Re: Ideas for Felicia XFCE CE

Postby ossified65 on Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:05 pm

Are they going to release the new version of Xfce in time for you to include it? the improvements sound nice
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Re: Ideas for Felicia XFCE CE

Postby merlwiz79 on Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:36 pm

xfce4-taskmanager was dropped at one point then put back into the repo a few months later after the release.
Ristretto wasn't very light and has been replaced in Intrepid with gpicview, the same I used in Linux Mint XFCE CE.
Xfburn has always given me trouble when burning an iso and decided to use Brasero, which is now what Xubuntu uses now.
GNOME's notification-daemon might be a dependency for another app.
Will have to look into it.
GNOME services?
I think this must be compiled into the app since I could never find away of changing the default setting.
Thunar is a dependency of xfce and is used for the desktop.
Nautilus isn't even set up to run the desktop so how is this a far comparison.

ossified65 wrote:Are they going to release the new version of Xfce in time for you to include it? the improvements sound nice

Xubuntu intrepid is using 4.2, so will Linux Mint 6 XFCE CE.
Using this in your sources.list for Linux Mint 6 XFCE CE you could install 4.6:
Code: Select all
deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/xubuntu-dev/ubuntu intrepid main

But it's still beta and would be unstable.

fireice-LLH wrote:an other idea:

including those screenshot app -> GScrot

Nice app I like it, but it requires many dependencies and wouldn't fit on the live cd.

I was looking into making a theme installer, but don't have the time or knowledge to make a good one.
I am currently stuck trying to get grub-gfxboot work with Wubi.
I had a version that worked with a custom build of Linux Mint 5 XFCE CE, but with the upgrades in intrepid it doesn't anymore.
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Re: Ideas for Felicia XFCE CE

Postby beranger on Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:10 am

merlwiz79 wrote:xfce4-taskmanager was dropped at one point then put back into the repo a few months later after the release.
Well, it could have been hosted by Mint's own repos, then!

merlwiz79 wrote:Xfburn has always given me trouble when burning an iso and decided to use Brasero, which is now what Xubuntu uses now.
You have probably tried the unicorns Xfburn 0.2.0 which is in Hardy's repo. Try 0.3.2, it's a huge difference!

merlwiz79 wrote:GNOME services?
I think this must be compiled into the app since I could never find a way of changing the default setting.
No, it's not.
There were some morons at Debian who changed a default, and Ubuntu imported the changes.
See: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs ... /changelog
Code: Select all
xfce4-session (4.4.2-6ubuntu1) intrepid; urgency=low
* Merge from debian unstable, remaining changes:
    - debian/patches:
...
+ xubuntu-default-config.patch: default GNOME services set to true to
        have accessibility services launched if installed

This means, to quote http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/u ... u2.diff.gz, that:
Code: Select all
[Compatibility]
LaunchGnome=true
LaunchKDE=false
was added to xfce4-session.rc.

When the key "LaunchGnome" is missing, it defaults to FALSE in the code, as per xfce4-session-4.4.2/settings/session/main.c:
Code: Select all
static void
initialize (int argc, char **argv) //called by main
{
...
  rc = xfsm_open_config (TRUE);
...
  xfce_rc_set_group (rc, "Compatibility");
  compat_gnome = xfce_rc_read_bool_entry (rc, "LaunchGnome", FALSE);
  compat_kde = xfce_rc_read_bool_entry (rc, "LaunchKDE", FALSE);
...
}

merlwiz79 wrote:Thunar is a dependency of xfce and is used for the desktop.
Nautilus isn't even set up to run the desktop so how is this a far comparison.
You don't seem to understand. Nobody said that Nautilus is used by default. The question was: you can have it installed easily, as most of the dependencies are already there, and once you have Nautilus installed, you can compare its memory usage against Thunar. And, when you do that, the whole myth of the over-lightness of Xfce seems to fall apart, right?

merlwiz79 wrote:I was looking into making a theme installer, but don't have the time or knowledge to make a good one.
It's not about a "theme installer". How about just uploading to the Mint repos the "packages" that are only on the CD? You know, mintconfig-xfce, mintdesktop-xfce, xfcemint-default-settings, xfcemint-desktop, xfcemint-doc, thunar-custom-actions-xfce and whatever else you recommended people to install as an upgrade from Daryna Xfce to Elyssa Xfce.
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Re: Ideas for Felicia XFCE CE

Postby merlwiz79 on Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:48 am

xfce4-taskmanager had no build for the repo for awhile and Xubuntu moved to gnome's.

A lot of people voted for Brasero to be installed by default.
Xfburn might work but is it better and will it break again later.

Gnome services:
Does this make the apps launch slow that need to have gnome services running?
I think this is a feature having it enabled by default.

How does thunar, 1 app of xfce, make xfce lightness a myth?

The theme installer was an idea of Insane1, the 1st post.
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Re: Ideas for Felicia XFCE CE

Postby Guestman on Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:43 pm

merlwiz79 wrote:lot of people voted for Brasero to be installed by default.

They were wrong!


merlwiz79 wrote:Gnome services:
Does this make the apps launch slow that need to have gnome services running?

And why have apps dependent of gnome services? Can not make a distro more XFCE-centric?

lightness a myth?

Yes it's a myth! Now and especially since XFCE 4.4
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Re: Ideas for Felicia XFCE CE

Postby FedoraRefugee on Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:08 pm

lite or not many of us run Xfce for different reasons. And I dont care what anyone's benchmarks say,, Xfce is much faster than Gnome on alol my computers.

As far as Xfce-centric though I am all for that. Please try keeping Gnome and KDE deps out. In fact, why not strip OO.o and a few other heavier apps and aim for a lighter ISO. Most Xfce users are advanced enough to install the extras themselves. Concentrate on the Mint tools, and just getting a base Xfce environment that is smooth and attractive. Elyssa was tops, you can hardly beat what was offered there.
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Re: Ideas for Felicia XFCE CE

Postby twin on Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:18 pm

FedoraRefugee wrote: In fact, why not strip OO.o and a few other heavier apps and aim for a lighter ISO. Most Xfce users are advanced enough to install the extras themselves. Concentrate on the Mint tools, and just getting a base Xfce environment that is smooth and attractive.


I too vote for a smaller ISO file. Elyssa rocks, and Melwiz, your work is superb, but it's very frustrating when the installation fails half way through, due to some cd error. :( For that I blame the size of the ISO. Smaller ISOs work better. This applies to all mint releases(I had problems with the main ISO too).

I'd prefer two smaller ISOs instead of a big one. Just my two cents. :oops:
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Re: Ideas for Felicia XFCE CE

Postby linuxviolin on Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:36 pm

FedoraRefugee wrote:As far as Xfce-centric though I am all for that. Please try keeping Gnome and KDE deps out.

I totally agree with you and Beranger about a Mint more XFCE-centric.

FedoraRefugee wrote:Xfce is much faster than Gnome

Not really. Gnome is bloated with some useless things. It is possible to make it lighter and you will see that it is not so heavy or so slow, it can be very responsive.
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)
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Re: Ideas for Felicia XFCE CE

Postby FedoraRefugee on Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:02 am

Was just reading the Mint 6 Fluxbox wishlist and was reminded that Xfce edition uses GDM. Any possibilities of changing this? Maybe Slim can be made to work for us also? Or XDM? I do not know how this would effect other defaults, but it would be nice to get away from GDM.
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Re: Ideas for Felicia XFCE CE

Postby FedoraRefugee on Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:11 am

FedoraRefugee wrote:Was just reading the Mint 6 Fluxbox wishlist and was reminded that Xfce edition uses GDM. Any possibilities of changing this? Maybe Slim can be made to work for us also? Or XDM? I do not know how this would effect other defaults, but it would be nice to get away from GDM.



edit: oops, just read Merlwiz's reply...Too bad on that one...
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Re: Ideas for Felicia XFCE CE

Postby ossified65 on Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:54 am

eye candy request? Could you make a nice little GUI to change the background of the panel? What about the menu background? Could that be customizable as well? What does everyone else think? Waste of time?
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Re: Ideas for Felicia XFCE CE

Postby jasmac on Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:18 pm

Wbar
Dell D810, 2000mb ram, pentium M, ATI 128mb
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Re: Ideas for Felicia XFCE CE

Postby SharkyPL on Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:31 am

Hello guys. I am really waiting for Felicia XFCE. I hope it will be very stable and as fast as possible, and I want to tell you about few bugs that bug me helluvalot in Xubuntu 8.10.

First things first, pdftoraster. It takes 95+ % of RAM, I looked on google and it's very buggy. Makes my PC stop, and I have to restart it if I don't kill it fast enough.
Second thing: few npviewer.bin windows appear and kill XFCE panels. This happens sometimes and bugs me alot too.
Third: I really would love to see it as optimised as possible. I would love to see it even faster than LXDE, and even if I know it's impossible, I would really love to see that.
Fourth: Bring some more Gnome-like attributes, for example: auto search of partitions, new disks, CD icon, and probably something like "My Computer" from Windows would be a nice add - it would make user feel more connected with the PC, instead of trying to do some weird commands just to mount an unseen partition.
Fifth: PLEASE bring some proper resolution and graphic driver configurator. New X.Org practically killed any possibilities to configure the PC, and I'm still struggling like crazy with it. Kills the joy.
Sixth: as many improvements, bugfixes and optimisations, so the PC goes as smooth as possible. Maybe even a script laying on the desktop which would turn everything that uses RAM, like beautiful look, compiz and many other things. Would be nice for a laptop, or old computer users.


I want to help you with that with my heart and would love with skills, but I lack them. But I'm sure I will try to help you as much as possible with that, because XFCE is very good and fast, and I really want it even better than GNOME. I want even more easy, even more stable, and - over all - even wayy more fast, because my PC ain't a rocket. Would love to help, PM me or tell me how can I help with that, what more should I report, where should I write more and I will explain everything, as I want 6th Mint the best distribution available.


Let me ask here: what about clamav? is it going to come with the system? I've heard of something about it, but can't put my finger on it...
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Re: Ideas for Felicia XFCE CE

Postby FedoraRefugee on Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:28 pm

Unfortunately Sharky,

You are wanting things from both sides of the road. You cannot have more Gnome attributes and bloated apps and have a faster Xfce at the same time.

First thing first, get rid of all the buggy and bloated apps. I hate to say this because they are the two most popular open source apps ever, and I do use both myself, but if you want to kill much bloat in one swoop get rid of Firefox and OO.o. They are both resource hogs. Personally, I think they are also A1 apps and I accept the tradeoff.

With Thunar-Volman we have auto mounting now, I really do not see any usage problems with Xfce. Things are just as automagic as they are in Gnome and KDE. If anything Xfce is easier to use as things are all logically in one place and not spread out between 3 menus like Gnome. Once again I differ between what I personally run and what I wish for on the ISO. I do run many Gnome and KDE apps, but I want a lite, stripped ISO. I hate the common philosophy in Linux in general that the ISO has to have everything including the kitchen sink. This is even sillier when you consider that by the time the ISO is a month old you will spend just as much bandwidth on updating the install than you would just installing apps fresh from the repo. I swear, I have spent more time in Fedora stripping things OUT of the ISO than I have installing things! I defer to the Mint philosophy of making things idiotproof, but can we diverge just a bit with the Xfce and Flux community editions? I mean, those people who would choose these environments are usually competent enough to use synaptic and customize their installs just how they want them. After all, that is why most of us do not use Gnome or KDE, the infamous bloat brothers.

Your xorg problems are out of the reach of the Mint Xfce edition. F10 just came out and there are problems there also. Personally, I dont like all this auto bull with everything. The reason I started using Linux was because if I had a problem I could easily fix it by editing a file somewhere. But, I guess that is progress...Anyway, this is a general Linux problem and the older your computer/GPU the worse it will be for you.

Clamav? Why include that as a default? I sure dont want it or need it! Why not just open synaptic and install it?
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Re: Ideas for Felicia XFCE CE

Postby SharkyPL on Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:13 am

I agree with you about clamav, it shouldn't be included,that's why I asked about it.
Yes, I think there should be a possibility of configuring the x.org by file, not totally automatic (or, maybe, including both automatic and manual options?)
I know I can't ask for things from gnome without them using more resources. I would in fact prefer more optimised and less buggy software, rather than new features, to be honest. Just so I could enjoy it on slower computers too. And less bugs mean more performance, more optimised means the same too.
It's just... I would like just a little script laying somewhere in the menus which would turn every unneeded feature regarding good look of XFCE, which would speed up the PC. Something like "Classic Windows" in WinXP themes, just to compare and visualise what I'm talking about. I don't think it would be much of an effort to do it... and if it is, I would like to help.
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Re: Ideas for Felicia XFCE CE

Postby rhvkl on Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:45 am

I would prefer xpad instead of tomboy-notes, because I think it's easy & lightweight ... ?

Greetz.
Last edited by rhvkl on Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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