If it's 36, that would mean 92.3% of their userbasecwwgateway wrote:MALsPa wrote:If I remember correctly there's something special about having a sample size of either 32 or above or 36 or above (can't remember which one), but I agree, the numbers aren't significant. Still, it's interesting.
Only 39 people use PinguyOS?FiReSTaRT wrote:If it's 36, that would mean 92.3% of their userbase
That's a little bit derogatory. They have like 2000 forum members.If it's 36, that would mean 92.3% of their userbase
Does this mean that we won't have the LXDE version of the regular Mint releases?We’ve also heard your opinion, via the poll, and we acknowledge the fact that the most popular environments within our community are Cinnamon, MATE, Xfce and KDE. Going forward, we’ll focus primarily on these desktops.
. (In my own humble opinion) It's a crime against the basic rules of usability, user experience and ergonomics.Just crackin' a joke, but I've made my point.. With that being said, I'll respect a distro even if it only has 5 users as long as it's well-packaged and scratches an itch.cwwgateway wrote:That's a little bit derogatory. They have like 2000 forum members.If it's 36, that would mean 92.3% of their userbase
I'd also like to see an LXDE version for really low spec hardware. XFCE can even be a bit much for some really old stuff and LXDE seems to be decently usable so far. Only running it on a virtual machine that only needs to vpn in, run an NX client and Twinkle, but I played with it a little during slow times at work and I could set it up to meet my daily desktop needs (even though I'd prefer Cinnamon or XFCE on hardware that's under 5 years old).egabrum wrote:Does this mean that we won't have the LXDE version of the regular Mint releases?
There was one point I was trying to make with that joke, though: Mint was meant to be a distro that will be an easy to use desktop distro that'll appeal to a large userbase. Our goals may not coincide with the goals of other distros.cwwgateway wrote:My guess is that they'll keep releasing some version for low-end hardware (although this might be simply a lighter LMDE Xfce, so I don't know). It will probably be released later in the cycle, though. @FiReSTaRT, there are many linux distros, and most of them have a small, dedicated community. I'll remind you that Mint (granted, a long time ago) used to be at this point. While I don't mind joking, that particular joke was a little bit insensitive, although you obviously didn't mean it literally so no real harm done.
LOL - I respect all others opinions, that's part of the beauty of Linux; you can make it anything you want. but.....I have to say, that I find it a little strange to hear that Gnome-Shell is unusable, etc... I work for an extremely large global tech company and although probably 99.9% of the workforce uses Windows, I use Linux (although, with a VM for windows for any of the 'windows' specific tools needed). When my original LMDE build changed over to Gnome Shell it worried the heck out of me for a little bit, then I decided what the heck, I'll give it a shot...and within a day or so I had no problem at all getting my work done (and usually much easier and faster) and I no longer had one hand on my clonezilla image waiting to move back to Gnome 2.egabrum wrote:http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2000
It is also interesting that Gnome Shell is left out, having virtually the same popularity than KDE. But I understand that Clem just wanted to probe the air and never committed to follow strictly the results. Anyways, I am glad that Gnome Shell is out
Now, After using it, configuring and adding 15-20 extensions, I find myself in the opposite camp. I've tried Cinnamin / Mate, etc, and just don't like it. Like I said though, if someone else likes it, that's great, use it; but it does baffle me that so many whined and cried about it and I'm betting the majority didn't really give it a chance and just followed along with the crowd. So now, I've tried installing the Cinnamin/Mate version moving it back to GDM from MDM, remove the mate and cinnamin junk and install gnome-shell but it feels like such a cobbled together piece of junk after that, that I blew it away and am now trying it with the XFCE version. It's beginning to look like my best option is going to be to install from my OLD LMDE install disk from last year. LOLInteresting that you needed to add 15-20 extensions to bring Gnome Shell to a state that you can love. Anyway, to each his own. I am glad you find Gnome Shell useful. Personally, out of the box I would rather use Unity than Gnome Shell.jackmetal wrote:Now, After using it, configuring and adding 15-20 extensions, I find myself in the opposite camp.
LOL - I knew something like that would be coming from the other camp.bamm wrote:Interesting that you needed to add 15-20 extensions to bring Gnome Shell to a state that you can love.jackmetal wrote:Now, After using it, configuring and adding 15-20 extensions, I find myself in the opposite camp.
Is that not what the extensions are for (so anyone can adjust it to their liking)?The purpose of extensions are to extend. As you said, it is for anyone to adjust it to their liking. But something is wrong if there exists an entire ecosystem of extensions whose purpose is not just to extend functionality but to make it usable. Good software should have good defaults.jackmetal wrote:LOL - I knew something like that would be coming from the other camp.
I don't think you're right here. I know the SolusOS devs like Mate but they haven't yet made a final decision on the desktop.bamm wrote:SolusOS is still in Squeeze but when they migrate to Wheezy Ikey has said that it will have a heavily modified Gnome3.
SolusOS uses Gnome2 not Mate. It is based on Debian Stable. Current stable still has Gnome 2. Solus will release a new version when Wheezy becomes stable. However, Ikey has said that they will not use vanilla Gnome3 but a modified one.AlbertP wrote:I don't think you're right here. I know the SolusOS devs like Mate but they haven't yet made a final decision on the desktop.bamm wrote:SolusOS is still in Squeeze but when they migrate to Wheezy Ikey has said that it will have a heavily modified Gnome3.
Good Points bamm... No, I wouldn't really recommend a default install of Gnome3/Gnome-Shell to a new user ( I definitely agree with you there).. I also agree that out of the box, it definitely needs some help to be really usable and Gnome DID make some bad decisions.bamm wrote: Let's say you configure Gnome3 for a friend you are converting to Linux. What if he creates a new user? What if he recommends it to his friends? Do they need to have you to reconfigure it to make it usable?
When Mint attempted to include Gnome3 in Lisa, they had to create their own extensions. Zorin also created its own set of extensions. SolusOS is still in Squeeze but when they migrate to Wheezy Ikey has said that it will have a heavily modified Gnome3. These distros wanted people to have a good experience on first try.
Think Firefox. Firefox has a good extension system, but has good defaults too. That is the beauty of open source. Now let's say I release a browser that has no URL bar or no support for bookmarks, because I don't believe in them anymore. Then lots of third party coders scramble to create extensions that restore these functionality. It is a sign that my product is bad by design. To rely on third parties to provide important things is irresponsible, and it's the ugly side of open source when people say "you want it, you code it yourself!" because it gives an excuse to do things badly.
Gnome made a lot of bad decisions which they won't even admit. Did you add a panel, or a maximize/minimize button? You had to add 10-15 extensions because the Gnome team believes that those features should not be there. Fortunately, Mint is a distro that cares about giving people good defaults.
I'm really not trying bash any particular DE or anyone's preference for any of them, I'd just like a clean path to move from the default install to Gnome-Shell without feeling like I'm having to jump through a bunch of hoops to get it done. Make sense?Well, I get what you're saying, but.. I really only use two GNOME Shell extensions -- Alternative Status Menu and Quit Button. For me, the only bad decision they made was not including a "power off" option by default.bamm wrote:Gnome made a lot of bad decisions which they won't even admit. Did you add a panel, or a maximize/minimize button? You had to add 10-15 extensions because the Gnome team believes that those features should not be there. Fortunately, Mint is a distro that cares about giving people good defaults.
Thanks for the conversation. Clem said that Mint 13 will have separate editions of Cinnamon and Mate (unlike LMDE which has both). So you only need to start with the Cinnamon edition. Cinnamon is just a shell for Gnome3, a fork of Gnome Shell. So the cleanup is minimal. You only need to uninstall Cinnamon and install Gnome Shell. I think MDM will only be used for the Mate edition.jackmetal wrote:Good Points bamm... No, I wouldn't really recommend a default install of Gnome3/Gnome-Shell to a new user ( I definitely agree with you there).. I also agree that out of the box, it definitely needs some help to be really usable and Gnome DID make some bad decisions.
I myself don't mind having to do a 'little work' to have my install to my liking (I've had to do that to every install I've ever done over the years, whether it was SLS, Slackware, RedHat/Fedora/CentOS, PCLinuxOS, Arch, vanilla Debian, etc.., .....). I'm even totally fine with Mint having their default be Cinnamon/Mate if that's what the majority wants.....but the one thing I would really like is an easy path to remove it and change to Gnome Shell (if that's the DE I want). Gnome is a major DE and the path right now is a pain and somewhat kludgy feeling: remove MDM, install GDM, install gnome shell and any of the standard gnome apps, remove mate, remove cinnamon and remove any of their particular apps, other cleanup work, etc, etc..). With an easy path to move from the default install to a major DE available, I imagine a lot of the gripes with the current install would probably go away.
Many thanks for our civil disagreement!
