Do not "upgrade to Hardy"

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Do not "upgrade to Hardy"

Postby Husse on Fri May 09, 2008 5:02 pm

Edit by husse // I hope to write a better explanation of this
Right now you can upgrade to Hardy (Ubuntu 8.04) either if you (for some strange reason) have the Ubuntu update manager or with an apt-get dist-upgrade
Be very careful not to do this!!
You end up with a very messed up Mint and the only solution out of the mess is a fresh install.
It may not be so messed up that you can't use Mint (I think that's the case mostly) so Elyssa will get you out of trouble
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Re: Do not "upgrade to Hardy"

Postby octy92 on Fri May 09, 2008 5:23 pm

hmm... i think i upgraded...

Code: Select all
sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[sudo] password for octavian:
Lettura della lista dei pacchetti in corso... Fatto
Generazione dell'albero delle dipendenze in corso
Reading state information... Fatto
Calcolo dell'aggiornamento in corso... Fatto
0 aggiornati, 0 installati, 0 da rimuovere e 0 non aggiornati.


(sry it's italian)

My Mint installation isn't messed up... is that a problem?
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Re: Do not "upgrade to Hardy"

Postby Husse on Fri May 09, 2008 5:31 pm

It depends on the repos - you have to add the Hardy repos. Please don't do that folks!
as long as you only have the Ubuntu repos of the same generation as your Mint you are safe
(I.e Gutsy for Daryna and Feisty for Cassandra and Celena)
I think its a flaw in apt-get that you need dist-upgrade to get new apps
And please use mintUpdate to update - it's much less risky
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Re: Do not "upgrade to Hardy"

Postby cmost on Fri May 09, 2008 9:26 pm

Husse, you really shouldn't be scaring people with such sensational posts. I have been using the Hardy repos for some time and utilized them to successfully upgrade Mint 4.0 to use Gnome 2.22, newer kernels, newer applications, a newer xorg / xserver and a host of other upgrades. My Mint install survived intact and ended up being quite better, in my opinion, than a stock Daryna installation. I'm sure it's similar to what Elyssa will be. What this tells me is that it is possible to use the Hardy repos to upgrade Mint - IF one knows what one is doing. While I would never recommend the uninitiated to try to use Hardy repositories, my point is that upgrading from the Hardy repos isn't necessarily the disaster you paint it out to be. Instead of trying to scare users into not upgrading (especially when you repeatedly state the dist-upgrade is a horrible disaster when it isn't,) you should simply let folks know they'll be on their own if they choose to use Hardy repos and get themselves into trouble.
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Re: Do not "upgrade to Hardy"

Postby ed@Mint on Sat May 10, 2008 4:03 am

cmost wrote:IF one knows what one is doing

There is the thing.
We get several posts from people who did this and who are not experienced/skilled enough to even know what they exactly did and now complaining that their system doesn't work as well as it did before.
Anyway, upgrading to Hardy is useless in Daryna... Stop that "i want the latest stuff" fashion, especially if, in the end, you couldn't see what changes between, say Gnome 2.20 and 2.22 (this is not especially adressed to you).

So, i'll insist on what Husse says : don't do it !
And i'll even add : Use mintUpdate only for software updates, do not update via Synaptic/Adept
Users who know their way won't follow these warnings anyway. Better to prevent than to cure... (french expression roughly translated)
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Re: Do not "upgrade to Hardy"

Postby Husse on Sat May 10, 2008 4:54 am

@ cmost
I owe you an apology for my "do not dist-upgrade" campaign because at one stage it was unnecessary - there were no newer repos involved
And as ed@Mint writes if you know what you are doing is the point
If you just enable the repos and make a distupgrade you are in trouble and it becomes a horrible disaster, and lately I've seen more than a few people with messed up systems asking for help.
The advice in the forum is there to guide the unknowing.
So don't do it!! It creates so much extra work for me .... :shock:
If someone want newer applications and no mess ask cmost how to do it.....
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Re: Do not "upgrade to Hardy"

Postby GrayWizardLinux on Sat May 10, 2008 9:00 am

I agree with Husse. People like me not do such things. He is overworked around here as it is. If you are the primo linux geek/nerd then go for it. If you no squate like me - Husse is trying to make it easy on all of the neophytes around here.

Cut him some slack!
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Re: Do not "upgrade to Hardy"

Postby Husse on Sat May 10, 2008 3:01 pm

I think I'll try to dig a bit deeper into this so I can explain it properly in an easy to understand manner
And there is a vast difference between
successfully upgrade Mint 4.0 to use Gnome 2.22, newer kernels, newer applications, a newer xorg / xserver and a host of other upgrades

and a dist-upgrade
If you avoid "dependency hell" you can update specific packages "freely"
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Re: Do not "upgrade to Hardy"

Postby mmesantos1 on Sat May 10, 2008 3:18 pm

HI Husse,
I was wanting to try to update just a few of the packages but I am not sure how to avoid "dependency hell". What is the best way to do this. I plan on doing a fresh install when Elyssa is released any ways. I have already backed up all my files that I want to transfer to the new version of mint so any help you could give would be greatly appreciated. I found the best way for me to learn an OS is through trial and error but if you could help cut out some of the trial it would save me some time. :D
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Re: Do not "upgrade to Hardy"

Postby Husse on Sat May 10, 2008 3:25 pm

avoid "dependency hell"

Manually - knowledge - not that dangerous I think though
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Re: Do not "upgrade to Hardy"

Postby mmesantos1 on Sun May 11, 2008 12:45 am

Thanks Husse. :D

Its all about learning Linux. :lol:
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Re: Do not "upgrade to Hardy"

Postby Fred on Sun May 11, 2008 1:17 am

"Up grading" from Mint 4 to Ubuntu hardy is mixing two different distros. Mint 4 is not Ubuntu gutsy. Even though closely related, mixing two different distros is bound to lead to problems and breakage. If you aren't prepared to deal with the consequences.... don't.

It shouldn't surprise you at all if it breaks. :-)

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Re: Do not "upgrade to Hardy"

Postby mmesantos1 on Sun May 11, 2008 1:48 am

It broke but I am all about learning. I am new to Linux and I am learning new things every day. I have to say this forum is the best I have come across so far. There are so many who are willing to help. Its about the journey! :D

Thank you all for your help! I have learned so much since I have been using Linux. I have only been using Linux for about 5 to 6 months now and have taken great strides thus far. I would to thank the community for all the help you have given me. I have to say that I have been a MS windows user for some time now but have never had this type of support. I will be a Linux user for a very long time thanks to all the great support I have received thus far. :)
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Re: Do not "upgrade to Hardy"

Postby Fred on Sun May 11, 2008 1:56 am

mmesantos1,

Enjoy the journey. I still break things on a regular basis trying to do strange and unusual things when I have no clue what I am doing. And I have been at at for over ten years. :-)

Linux is kinda like women. So many of them and so little time! lol

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Re: Do not "upgrade to Hardy"

Postby mmesantos1 on Sun May 11, 2008 8:30 am

Fred,
That is so true :lol:
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Re: Do not "upgrade to Hardy"

Postby Husse on Sun May 11, 2008 12:11 pm

When things have "cooled down" a bit and Clem, Boo and others have a bit more time I'll educate myself a bit and write a general advice put here.
Of course I know the basics, but to write a nice explanation that digs deep I feel I need a bit more
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Re: Do not "upgrade to Hardy"

Postby Acid_1 on Mon May 12, 2008 1:34 am

I just wanted to say I've been using Hardy repo's and have had no problems yet. But I was careful what I upgraded, so forth and so on. :mrgreen:
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Re: Do not "upgrade to Hardy"

Postby Husse on Mon May 12, 2008 4:35 am

careful what I upgraded

That's the whole point - if you are there's still a small chance there will be problems, but a small one.
If you dist-upgrade - bang! It's the dist-upgrade you should not do - that command is not "careful what it upgrades" :)
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Re: Do not "upgrade to Hardy"

Postby mmesantos1 on Sun May 18, 2008 12:33 am

Well I have finally been able to update Linux Mint 4.0. Since having no luck with Linux MInt 5.0 Beta. I had to re-install Linux Mint 4.0. I added Romeo and Hardy Repositories and installed all the new Mint Tools and also updated Gnome and a host of other packages with no breakage! Mind you this was all done manually with Synaptic which took a good amount of time and patients, well at least for me since I am still a novice to Linux. Keep in mind I did not do any kind of Dist upgrade. I made sure not to upgrade any compiz packages, this is important because last time I did this it caused all kinds of issues. I still plan on installing Linux Mint 5.0 wants it has reached final release stage, but until then I at least have something very close to Mint 5.0.

So I do not recommend any do this unless you have allot of time and patients and do not mind the chance of having to re-install Mint!
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Re: Do not "upgrade to Hardy"

Postby Husse on Sun May 18, 2008 7:22 am

Yes - the main point is do not dist-upgrade - that's what is a disaster s it changes "everything" A careful selective upgrade is possible without breaking things
I have another topic about this (more in general) and as I stated I'll write something better later on
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