Release Candidate: Linux Mint 5 Fluxbox CE RC1

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Re: Linux Mint 5 Elyssa Fluxbox Community Edition RC1

Postby rsammis on Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:10 am

merlwiz79 wrote:Just installed all updates minus the newer kernel and restricted modules.
It still boots with my Kingston thumbdrive connected.
This might be specific to your hardware, but I will test the kernel.

Edit:
Just tested with the new kernel and now have all updates installed.
My system still boots with my Kingston thumbdrive plugged in.
Seems it must be specific to your hardware.


I certainly agree that this problem must be specific to my hardware but here are two more interesting facts:

1. The Mint FB Live CD boots perfectly with any flash stick installed. Watching the boot, I see screen output stop just after flash device detection (exactly where the installed boot fails), but the CD continues to be read. The boot process continues normally after 20-30 seconds. No errors reported.

2. I rebooted my install with the key inserted and just waited. The boot "halted" per the usual. After 4-5 minutes, an error was reported and Mint dropped to the initramfs prompt. Here's the text:

"Check root = bootarg cat /proc/cmdline or missing modules, devices: cat /proc/modules cat /dev
ALERT! /dev/sda2 does not exist. Dropping to a shell."

/dev/sda2 contains my Mint FB install ("/"). Could the boot process be mistaking the flash stick for the hard drive?

This Hardy bug looks like it could be just what we're seeing here (with other hardware): https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy ... bug/244363
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Re: Linux Mint 5 Elyssa Fluxbox Community Edition RC1

Postby shane on Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:28 pm

sounds like it is detecting your flash as sda and pushing your HD to sdb and so grub cannot find the system root on sda and hence the boot fails...
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Re: Linux Mint 5 Elyssa Fluxbox Community Edition RC1

Postby shane on Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:32 pm

Aquern wrote:I've just installed Mint Fluxbox RC1 on an old IBM Aptiva with a Pentium II CPU and 128 MB RAM (which had been gathering dust in a closet!) and it WORKS! HUZZAH!

Now I've just got to figure out how to use Fluxbox, as I've never tried it before and it's a little different. I also don't have an internet connection for this computer so I haven't tried to update anything yet.


cool! thats quite an old machine... i'm really interested on how it works on your hardware. please do let us know! how long did it take to install? responsiveness of the system, video playback, streaming media (youtube), etc. this will be a good test of the distro.
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Re: Linux Mint 5 Elyssa Fluxbox Community Edition RC1

Postby rsammis on Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:57 pm

shane wrote:sounds like it is detecting your flash as sda and pushing your HD to sdb and so grub cannot find the system root on sda and hence the boot fails...


I think that's exactly the case. The problem occurs when any USB storage device is connected at boot (I have several external HDs that have the same effect). The question is why no one amongst you is experiencing this problem?

As to practical solutions, if this is in fact a recognized Hardy bug and is fixed, when might I see it come down via MintUpdate? Would I see such a fix via MU? If not, am I not then dependent on Synaptic (which Mint users are advised to avoid for system updates) for the fix?

I understand the bind Mint is in under such circumstances, but there must be a way of effectively handling with such things.
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Re: Linux Mint 5 Elyssa Fluxbox Community Edition RC1

Postby merlwiz79 on Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:33 pm

rsammis wrote:I think that's exactly the case. The problem occurs when any USB storage device is connected at boot (I have several external HDs that have the same effect). The question is why no one amongst you is experiencing this problem?

As to practical solutions, if this is in fact a recognized Hardy bug and is fixed, when might I see it come down via MintUpdate? Would I see such a fix via MU? If not, am I not then dependent on Synaptic (which Mint users are advised to avoid for system updates) for the fix?

I understand the bind Mint is in under such circumstances, but there must be a way of effectively handling with such things.

This is a BIOS setting nothing to do with OS.
I was booting into XFCE CE which is connected as the 1st usb hard drive.
Then I have a usb hard drive for backup and my thumbdrive is the last usb drive connected.
You have to go in BIOS and make sure that you don't have the order incorrect.
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Re: Release Candidate: Linux Mint 5 Fluxbox CE RC1

Postby _LDC_ on Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:11 am

thanks for this great release!!! fluxbox is the way! :P

I've installed it on my laptop (easynote J51), installation went smoothly, and it is fast as lightning.
Mint politely asked if I wished to install the proprietary NVidia drivers, I agreed, so it installed them (flawlessly)... now I only wish for kernel 2.6.27 with nativa support for RTL8187B wireless card :)

hat off to the staff, great distro... considering to take my time enjoying it at least on the laptop ;)
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Re: Linux Mint 5 Elyssa Fluxbox Community Edition RC1

Postby rsammis on Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:02 pm

merlwiz79 wrote:This is a BIOS setting nothing to do with OS.
I was booting into XFCE CE which is connected as the 1st usb hard drive.
Then I have a usb hard drive for backup and my thumbdrive is the last usb drive connected.
You have to go in BIOS and make sure that you don't have the order incorrect.


Thanks, but I checked my BIOS settings. It is configured to first boot the CDROM, then the hard drive, and last, removable media (the flash stick). In order to boot the flash stick, the BIOS would have to see the HD as unbootable. That clearly is not so. I appreciate the suggestion, however. We can't afford to overlook anything.

By the way, one of reason's this issue "hurts" so much is that Mint FB is best Linux distro I've ever had the pleasure of booting. It's an inspired work and hope to see it go very far.
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Re: Release Candidate: Linux Mint 5 Fluxbox CE RC1

Postby merlwiz79 on Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:43 am

Not that order the Hard drive boot order.
Sorry wasn't specific the 1st time.
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Re: Release Candidate: Linux Mint 5 Fluxbox CE RC1

Postby rsammis on Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:42 pm

merlwiz79 wrote:Not that order the Hard drive boot order.
Sorry wasn't specific the 1st time.

Thanks. I checked that also. Can't be a problem with just one hard drive ;-).
I guess I'll have to wait until someone else has this problem.
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Re: Release Candidate: Linux Mint 5 Fluxbox CE RC1

Postby shane on Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:41 am

kei wrote:i didn't knew where to post the bugs, but well herte it goes, i'm using this edition, testing it and stuff, and some weird thing is that when y press shutdown in the shutdown menu, it doesn't turn off the PC, its like the OS is shut but the pc don't, i will keep looking for bugs, so the next release will be even better than this =D


this sounds more like a problem you would face in an old computer... remember the ones that used to say "it is now safe to turn off your computer"... the shutdown button runs this command "sudo shutdown -h now". Try running that from command line or "sudo halt" . Please also tell about your hardware... how old it is... make and model of your motherboard.
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Re: Release Candidate: Linux Mint 5 Fluxbox CE RC1

Postby kei on Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:33 pm

it's not that old, its a packard bell legend, with M/B K8N800 VIA chipset, semprom 3000+ processor, 1 GB of ram, the weird things is that, sometimes it turns the pc off and sometimes it doesn't.

other thing that happens is, sometimes it doesn't load the wallpaper
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Re: Release Candidate: Linux Mint 5 Fluxbox CE RC1

Postby shane on Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:45 am

kei wrote:it's not that old, its a packard bell legend, with M/B K8N800 VIA chipset, semprom 3000+ processor, 1 GB of ram, the weird things is that, sometimes it turns the pc off and sometimes it doesn't.

other thing that happens is, sometimes it doesn't load the wallpaper


this may be a known ubuntu issue. have a look at this thread on launchpad. https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/32490 there is a fix described there. try that out and post back your results. also, what happens when you shutdown with "sudo shutdown -h now" or "sudo halt" ?

about the wallpaper... when it doesnt load, what happens when you run "fbsetbg -l" ? this should load the last set wallpaper... also, what are the contents of ~/.fluxbox/lastwallpaper ?
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Re: Release Candidate: Linux Mint 5 Fluxbox CE RC1

Postby beranger on Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:35 pm

Q1: Why not using PCManFM instead of Thunar? It's lighter and it has a few more features (e.g. tabs), while looking very much similarly.

Q2: I still don't get what's the point of using Mint instead of Ubuntu (except maybe for the horrendous Ubuntu theme). Are you aware of how many people experience serious issues with the kernel provided by Ubuntu 8.04(.1) with regards to hibernation? Ubuntu 8.04 is a serious regression over 7.10, but it's 8.04 who is LTS! The right thing to do would be to offer a Mint repo for a separate kernel, the same way Parsix is providing its own kernel, regardless of the fact that otherwise it takes the packages from Debian testing and a few extra packages are adapted from Ubuntu.
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Re: Release Candidate: Linux Mint 5 Fluxbox CE RC1

Postby shane on Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:44 pm

beranger wrote:Q1: Why not using PCManFM instead of Thunar? It's lighter and it has a few more features (e.g. tabs), while looking very much similarly.

Q2: I still don't get what's the point of using Mint instead of Ubuntu (except maybe for the horrendous Ubuntu theme). Are you aware of how many people experience serious issues with the kernel provided by Ubuntu 8.04(.1) with regards to hibernation? Ubuntu 8.04 is a serious regression over 7.10, but it's 8.04 who is LTS! The right thing to do would be to offer a Mint repo for a separate kernel, the same way Parsix is providing its own kernel, regardless of the fact that otherwise it takes the packages from Debian testing and a few extra packages are adapted from Ubuntu.


1) I did consider PCManFM. But contrary to what you suggested, Thunar does have more features than PCManFM. The most important being volume management, IMO. Otherwise, PCManFM has come a long way and I am keeping an eye on it. Mint FB and Mint XFCE do share a lot in common, Thunar being one of them. This concentrates our resources and hence, hopefully, we can release a better product.

2) Your point about the kernel does not only affect Mint FB, but every other version of Mint. I do agree that in some areas Ubuntu messes up the kernel. But in others they do not. For example, suspend works on my laptop in Hardy whereas it didn't in Gutsy or Feisty. But it did work in Edgy... :roll:

In any case, maintaining any package is a lot of work... even with the Mint specific packages which are relatively small in the whole scheme of things. ATM I do not think that we here at Mint have the resources to maintain a package that is as essential to the system as the kernel. Surely, the Ubuntu devs are not perfect, but they sure do put a lot of work into their kernel. Maintaining all our packages independently would definitely be bliss, but we have to live within our means.

What would be cool is if Clem would be able to work full time on Mint... Maybe then we would be able to have Mint exactly the way we want.
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Re: Release Candidate: Linux Mint 5 Fluxbox CE RC1

Postby beranger on Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:00 pm

Umm... right.

A crazy idea: both Ubuntu 8.04 (err... Mint 5) and Parsix 1.5r1 have the kernel 2.6.24. It would be a nice try to recompile the Parsix kernel under Mint and to offer it as an OPTIONAL alternative, should the upstream kernel be unsatisfactory. This would require an extra Mint repo, to make sure it's easy to disable it.
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Re: Release Candidate: Linux Mint 5 Fluxbox CE RC1

Postby shane on Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:16 pm

beranger wrote:Umm... right.

A crazy idea: both Ubuntu 8.04 (err... Mint 5) and Parsix 1.5r1 have the kernel 2.6.24. It would be a nice try to recompile the Parsix kernel under Mint and to offer it as an OPTIONAL alternative, should the upstream kernel be unsatisfactory. This would require an extra Mint repo, to make sure it's easy to disable it.


The decision to do this would have to come from Clem. Maybe you could suggest it here viewforum.php?f=29 However, what I am interested in is, why Parsix? What does it provide over the Ubuntu kernel?
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Re: Release Candidate: Linux Mint 5 Fluxbox CE RC1

Postby beranger on Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:37 pm

shane wrote:However, what I am interested in is, why Parsix? What does it provide over the Ubuntu kernel?

The short answer: reliable hibernation!
(while using the same kernel version.)
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Re: Release Candidate: Linux Mint 5 Fluxbox CE RC1

Postby shane on Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:04 pm

beranger wrote:
shane wrote:However, what I am interested in is, why Parsix? What does it provide over the Ubuntu kernel?

The short answer: reliable hibernation!
(while using the same kernel version.)


i feel your pain... I went through 2 versions of Ubuntu lamenting on launchpad till suspend got fixed for my laptop... hibernation still doesn't work... Unfortunately I have also met the "recompile the kernel" solution... and i don't think we should have to. I would suggest searching for or opening a bug report on launchpad. Maintaining our own kernel is just not on the options list right now.

However, if you do find a solution that I can implement without breaking stuff for other hardware configurations (thats the hard part), I will surely add it for the final release.

Post your hardware configuration here... especially your motherboard and chipset... I will have a look as well.
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Re: Release Candidate: Linux Mint 5 Fluxbox CE RC1

Postby beranger on Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:22 pm

shane wrote:I would suggest searching for or opening a bug report on launchpad.

I did it on April 23, it's Bug #221213: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour ... bug/221213
  • Hardy: Triaged, High
  • Intrepid: Fix Committed, High
Indeed, the current Intrepid (Alpha whatever) works.

The bug itself was marked as duplicate of Bug #226279, which is allegedly "Fixed" in Hardy, but this is not true for my hardware! (Acer TravelMate 5310, details in the original bug report)

Note that another similar bug, #336279, has 14 duplicates, and nobody checked whether everybody got his problem fixed or not.

How about the hibernate failing for the reporters of:
  • Bug #197064 and #207615 (duplicates of bug #201086, allegedly fixed, but the last comments say it's not for them)
  • Bug #205221 (undecided)
  • Bug #206067 (duplicate of #186056, which is "undecided", and still reported as unfixed on 2008-08-05 for T20, with 8.10-alpha 3)

The nightmare of Ubuntu is the plethora of unfixed kernel issues, especially regressions with regards to hibernation. It's a shame that I can't use a LTS release because of this!
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Re: Linux Mint 5 Elyssa Fluxbox Community Edition RC1

Postby mmesantos1 on Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:58 pm

shane wrote:Thanks and congratulations are also in order for Merlwiz79 and Exploder without whom this release would not have been possible!

I hope everyone enjoys this release!


Hello Shane,
I would like to say great job on Mint Fluxbox!
Now to the issues I have encountered. I did see this in previous posts but wanted to still mention it, I was wondering why no volume control on task bar, not that it is a big deal since you can access this through the menu but it is a nice convenience. Keep in mind I am new to the Fluxbox GUI. Also I am not able to access my other hard drive on my PC. It is internal hard drive that I run Mint Main 5 on. Both drives are both SATA. I have run into this same issue with XFCE. The only work around I was given was to install another file manager. I was not happy with that suggestion. I do not feel I should have to do that since there is already Thunar. The last issue is I do not see much improvement in performance in Fluxbox over Mint XFCE CE. I will have to chock it up to the fact that you have some XFCE components installed along side Fluxbox, I was wondering if there is a Fluxbox alternative for these XFCE components?

Well thank you again for a great CE! :)
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