Tasteless One Liners in terminal - Bianca

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Postby telic on Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:48 pm

Planet of the Apes


It's a madhouse... a MADHOUSE! ;-)

Whether or not the verse itself is tactless, the uninvited jokes contribute to a bohemian reputation which can be a curse to Linux within the big picture.

The random graffiti mechanism can be included for those who want to enable it, but methinks Mint can benefit by deferring to a decorum that's suitable to the widest range of computing environments.


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Postby Sorensei on Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:22 am

telic wrote:...methinks Mint can benefit by deferring to a decorum that's suitable to the widest range of computing environments.----

... and pray tell, my good sir, what is "a decorum suitable to the widest range of computing environments"? :roll:

The onliners make me laugh every time I open a terminal, even if some are better than other, I'm willing to give you that. If you're too stiff-necked to enjoy them, I've no problem with that, by all means remove them. :D

But if they hadn't been included by default I'd never found out about them and that would be a pity...
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Postby telic on Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:15 am

Sorensei wrote:... and pray tell, my good sir, what is "a decorum suitable to the widest range of computing environments"? :roll:


Your question is made disingenuous by its rolling-eyes emoticon and tone, indicating that you've already passed judgement on this matter.

Like it or not, the big picture of desktop computing is dominated by corporate protocol and a public that's quick to distrust any seemingly undisciplined technology. Within this context, Ubuntu's relative success is no mystery, as its implementation philosophy is a shiny example of decorum that's suitable to the widest range of computing environments.

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Postby Sorensei on Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:05 am

I like the onliners, I think I made that clear enough.

Now, did it occur to you that many people might be there precisely because they are fed up with the corporate protocol in question?
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Postby telic on Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:44 am

Now, did it occur to you that many people might be there precisely because they are fed up with the corporate protocol in question?


Ubuntu's implementation embraces the tenets of corporate decorum, and conforms to standards known for mainstream appeal.

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Postby Sorensei on Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:38 am

... and seemingly some people find this not enough, or not entirely to their taste... which is why Mint exists. Or we'd all be using Ubuntu, wouldn't we?

Not that it isn't a great distro, mind you.
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Postby telic on Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:27 pm

... and seemingly some people find this not enough, or not entirely to their taste... which is why Mint exists. Or we'd all be using Ubuntu, wouldn't we?


I see no one here arguing for the elimination of variety or individual choice. Nor is anyone saying that a Linux distro doesn't have the right to garnish their product for bohemian tastes.

My point is about how any out-of-the-box norm can define a product in the eyes of mainstream consumers. Not that the typical computer user need be of any particular interest to the makers of Mint. After all, any hobbyist project of any ilk may be largely whimsical or gratuitous.

Ubuntu is one example of an enterprise that actively applies a corporate sense of decorum to its product, quenching the thirsts of commerce and consumer trust. This is achieved without compromising Linux's uncanny ability to serve as a Ferrari, Jeep, or Rolls-Royce.

One of Microsoft's supreme blunders with Vista, for example, is in creating an operating system that presumes to impose one particular sense of what is (or isn't) legitimate entertainment on my personal computer. Only a matter of market share separates Microsoft from any Linux distro whose random graffiti presumes to be so amusing (legit) that users must have it fed to them without invitation.

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Last edited by telic on Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby veloct on Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:39 pm

blah blah blah blah blah. I get rid of them, I don't need the sayings on my terminal. All it needs is code. I like using the terminal and most of the time do so instead of the tools. I guess I'm old school.
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Postby Sorensei on Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:35 pm

telic wrote:One of Microsoft's supreme blunders with Vista, for example, is in creating an operating system that presumes to impose one particular sense of what is (or isn't) legitimate entertainment on my personal computer. Only a matter of market share separates Microsoft from any Linux distro whose random graffiti presumes to be so amusing (legit) that users must have it fed to them without invitation.
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Not a question of market share, here. If you don't like the onliners because they offend your sense of propriety, no problem, take them off - there's even a link for how to do it earlier in this very thread.

Now, If I want to start removing what I find offensive in Vista - I'm sure they won't help, and probably sue me.

That's the difference.

What I love about Mint is that it helped me discover many things about how my system works and what it can do - some of them I'd never necessarily thought about. What I found nice I kept, and removed what I didn't use or found annoying.

But if they hadn't been there in the first place, I'd never had a chance to find out.

If that makes Mint or this forum a madhouse as you said earlier, I'm taking the madhouse any day.
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Postby telic on Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:39 pm

If that makes Mint or this forum a madhouse as you said earlier, I'm taking the madhouse any day.


A joke was made about Planet of the Apes. I quoted one of the best-known lines from that 1968 film: "It's a madhouse... a MADHOUSE!"

That's more fitting here than the other well-known line: "Get your stinking paws off of me, you damn dirty ape". I'll save that for a discussion of Bill Gates or Paris Hilton.

If nuisance factors are what motivate people to discover how their computers work, then Microsoft Vista is one massively compelling learning tool!

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Postby Sorensei on Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:11 am

telic wrote:If nuisance factors are what motivate people to discover how their computers work, then Microsoft Vista is one massively compelling learning tool!
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Not necessarily nuisances. Simply unexpected events. Whether they qualify as nuisance is up to the user, and obviously opinions vary.

And they enable you to learn something only if you can do something about it, which disqualifies Vista for the most part, I'm afraid.
Unless we take Vista as an encouragement to "learn something about Linux", which of course cannot be a bad thing. :D
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Postby bef on Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:47 am

I do not personally find the one liners offensive, however I am sharing the opinion that if Mint is going to be widely distributed, things which users are likely to take offense to should be turned off by default.
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Postby telic on Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:40 am

And they enable you to learn something only if you can do something about it, ...


If you learn only from triumph then you learn less effectively than folk who can also learn from their frustrations. Much of what can be discovered about anything is the incidental data that accumulates during pursuit of single objectives, even when a venture turns bust.

Y'all ain't gettin' what I'm sayin' about the random graffiti.

Needlessly enabling a mouthy jack-in-the-box is presumptuous, typical of a bohemian persona that's associated with hackerz. No problemo, unless you aim to have desktop Linux embraced by blue-chip corporations and an antsy public worldwide.

An operating system amounts to a multipurpose framework. I might use it for entertainment purposes, but an OS has no business peddling someone else's idea of amusement (or legitimacy) onto my desktop without my invite. What's next, digitized farts and belches as the default system sound effects?

It can be counterproductive to give the impression that inmates are running the asylum.

And tastes in gratuituous "fun" can be culture driven, so an international project should govern itself accordingly.

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Postby sanguinemoon on Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:19 pm

The solution is simple. Just remove the potty-mouthed ones, but keep the rest. They help give the distribution some personality. There's so much emphasis these days on being professional, corporate, politically correct and inoffensive. I get enough corporate decorum when I'm at work. Maybe people will use a distribution more and not less if they get a smile or a laugh, or even occasional tidbit of wisdom.

Uncle Bob was right when he said "Personally I get offended by people that take offence so easily to anything and everything. "
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Postby telic on Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:21 pm

Uncle Bob was right when he said "Personally I get offended by people that take offence so easily to anything and everything."


There are differing standards between footloose hobbyists and paid professionals.

Do and be whatever you please in your Wild Frontier pastime, and take smug offense at the mainstream. But, when you enter the commonwealth to seek patrons -- from whom you solicit money for a product or service -- then you must discipline your own "offence" in favor of the market that feeds your dreams of fame and fortune. Otherwise your commerce may be limited by the size of your equally quirky fandom.

Change is unnecessary when the project's status quo satisfies its charter.

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Postby sanguinemoon on Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:16 pm

Claim down, guy. I haven't seen the one about your sister swimming out to the ship (as if BASH even knows your sister :roll: ) but maybe the ones like that should be removed, but leave the harmless ones in. That seems a reasonable compromise to me.

Speaking of the market, there are whole lot of lookalike distros out there, without personality that go nowhere. Why use this over Ubuntu in the first place? In the end, the codecs are easy to install with instructions all over the Ubuntu forums and in the wiki; using Ubuntu I could probably even figure out how add the repo's that contain mintconfig, mintmenu, etc. But this own looks and feels better than Ubuntu. The sayings when you launch the terminal are just one more small way to set this distro apart; but just take out the ones about "your sister swims out to meet the ships" ,etc.
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Postby telic on Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:16 am

This graffiti thing is party to a broader and tenacious issue.

My very first (and brief) look-see at Linux was back when it was an infant. It booted from a floppy diskette, and had only the Terminal interface.

More than a decade later now, I see that Linux users continue to be slaves to the cryptic DOS-prompt. (And there's still "personality" in canned one-liners from a simpleminded jack-in-the-box that's almost as old as Unix itself?)

Ultimately, this ain't quaint or kitschy, it's a crutch. A ball-and-chain shackle -- with an attitude.

In years past, Microsoft was lambasted whenever Windows required its users to suckle at the DOS-prompt teat. So the MS-DOS box is hardly needed now. But, in Linux, today, users who aren't a competent chef with the Terminal are faced with desktop malnutrition!

Not that there's anything inherently wrong with this, but then comparisons between MS Windows and desktop Linux become futile, because the two haven't been held to the same standards of mainstream accessibility.

For every lean and mean Linux ace who taunts the Microsoft PC as a bloated game machine, there are thousands of Windows users who are too fat and pampered to care. And Bill Gates cackles all the way to the bank.

Linux's hardcore and old-guard admirers can also be its worst representatives, by effectively maintaining a text-mode Wild Frontier chip on their OS shoulder. It's sad to see that this has helped keep Linux relatively poor in the midst of obscene wealth -- like the genius nerd who's underutilized mainly because he's socially challenged. You can dress him up with a GUI, but you can't take him anywhere without the clunky Terminal.

Imagine the folly in Microsoft hyping how a MS-DOS jack-in-the-box gives Vista an edge over Mac OS.

Nursing Linux's DOS-prompt "personality" isn't worth the cultural, stylistic, or marketing blunders.

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Last edited by telic on Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby bin on Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:58 am

Uncle Bob wrote:Personally I get offended by people that take offence so easily to anything and everything. To me they are all just spineless whingers that cannot cope with the real world and reality and therefore they serve no purpose in life, they are a liability and they weaken the gene pool. Furthermore their presence weaken our position at the top of the food chain. Thus, they should all be rounded up and then shot at dawn.


I notice the support for Portsmouth FC at the bottom of your post - presumably you have some connection with Portsmouth. Like many ex-navy people, so do I. I guess maybe the relatives of 15 service people might not agree that jokes about being held hostage are not offensive - but hey you get your kicks your own way I guess.

My concern about the un-professional approach this creates takes things back to the "2 thirteen year old geeks sniggering over mums underwear catalogue behind the bike sheds" level and does nothing for the image of linux. Whether you find that fun or not is immaterial as far as I'm concerned - I am not a spineless whinger, nor do I take offence easily, and if you want silly sayings in your terminal that's fine.

What I object to here is the lack of sensitivity in chosing the content and delivery method. By all means put 'em in, but switch em off by default.

in light

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Postby sanguinemoon on Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:16 pm

I still fail to see what's wrong with my proposal. I think all Clem would have do is comment out the offensive bits in the /usr/share/games/fortunes/fortune file (and latter on possibly replace them with something better) So that Mint can set itself apart from the numerous lookalike distros with a modified fortune. You never achieve greatness by being like everybody else.
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Postby Sorensei on Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:25 am

Your idea is a good compromise. :wink:
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