Mint showstoppers

[minty_explorations]

...or will reach for CLI without stopping to think is that acceptable behavior for a newbie or not.

The terminal is part of the system and a necessary tool. To assume that command line work is not needed or should be avoided is asinine. A new user SHOULD be exposed to the command line when called for and should be encouraged to use it. The command line is most often, the BEST way to solve a problem. It is perfectly acceptable in a Unix-type system to expect, even require, some command line knowledge and use to be truly "up-to-speed." If this scares a new user, then it is up to the new user to get over it or live with what they already know.

[minty_explorartions]

I was almost tempted to consider Mint for a friend's rebuild but she needs to use a scanner. As there is no ready provision (GUI facility) for scanners in Mint it is ruled out. I find it sad that after all these years, a leading distribution can come so close to meeting all everyday needs but just fail on one or two pretty fundamental issues.

Here is the perfect example of why learning is the key to success. Scanner support is quite easy to add as another user pointed out earlier:

apt-get install xsane

and agree to all the additional software the system needs to install. This could also be done in Synaptic if the GUI is your thing. Either way, a little bit of asking in a forum and you have scanner support added to your Mint.

What others are trying to point out, nothing in the computer world comes without some learning curve. Linux is not Windows and nor should it be. Expecting an out-of-the-box Linux to behave like a fully installed and pre-configured Windows off-the-shelf system is ridiculous, it ain't gonna happen.

[confused.brit]

Linux noob/windows poweruser here.

Only one real showstopper to my mint install. The network manager didnt handle my crappy USB dongle very well (based on a Realtek 8187L chip). I managed to get it connected at below 802.11b speeds but it wasnt stable. Tried a few different graphical managers but none were stable, BUT, the network tool in the control centre does work absolutely 100% rock solid 802.11g speed.

If there is some way to encourage use of that wifi manager with a graphical signal strength in the tray, that might be best. ISPs over here in the UK are giving away WIFI routers with the SSID hidden now in order to improve security, so the user needs to learn how to connect to networks that wont show in a scan.

[qbicdesign]

Listen, while you are standing around waiting on them to fix it for you maybe you will run into qbicdesign...Then again, I doubt he is still around. Meanwhile, I am still here, still using Mint without any problems, and still firm in my position, misunderstood as it is.

Still here and still using Mint most of the time apart from the occasional stray back to XP to use CorelDraw, and being forced to suffer Vista at work (for a few more days at least til my new PC arrives) Mint here i come! lets see how it runs on a quadcore with 4gb ram and 1TB hardrive .... XP will stay in virtualbox...

Installed Mint 6 on my main home PC, and on the whole its very slow by comparison to Mint 5 was - slower I'm afraid to say than XP, so for me Mint 6 is a clear step backwards in performance.
having said that, a few things which I was hoping for have been improved:
- root file editing from GUI is now a lot better
- scanner installation is a little easier than before, tho for some reason i got 2 different scanner utilities in my face on first boot - "xsane" and "scanner utility", anyone know which is better?

[AK Dave]

Linux noob/windows poweruser here.

Only one real showstopper to my mint install. The network manager didnt handle my crappy USB dongle very well (based on a Realtek 8187L chip).

You can thank Realtek for that. Very little based on 8187 works as well as we'd like it to, and external USB is probably the worst of all. I'm very disappointed in 8187, but unfortunately it looks like my best hope of getting rid of it from my own personal pocket universe is going to be to scrap my otherwise perfectly functional laptop because my few attempts to swap the internal 8187 card for "anything else" have resulted in failure.

Probably the worst part about 8187 is that it has a linux kernel module in the first place. So linux will actually recognise it, or should, and try to use it. The best function with my 8187 card has always been with Windows drivers. Fortunately, ndiswrapper allows me to use those Windows drivers with linux. Happy day for me.

I find that people are too quick to blame "linux" for their own craptastic hardware, rather than put the blame squarely on the hardware vendors - where the blame belongs.

[AK Dave]

ISPs over here in the UK are giving away WIFI routers with the SSID hidden now in order to improve security, so the user needs to learn how to connect to networks that wont show in a scan.

This has to be a sick joke. I don't doubt the veracity of your statement, but do you realize that hidden SSID is actually LESS secure than broadcasting your SSID?

Hidden SSID doesn't keep your radios from broadcasting. It is the fact that network traffic is broadcasting that sniffers zoom in on. Once a sniffer starts recording your network traffic, its easier to crack a hidden network than one that broadcasts. According to the white hats, that is, and not that I'd consider myself one of them. If I'm an anything-hat its a "dunce hat".

[qbicdesign]

well it wouldn't surprise me - isn't there a new law in UK that makes you liable if someone else downloads child pr0n on your open Wifi connection?
really... anything stupid seems to go in UK these days...

[Fred]

I am jealous. I don't even own a half decent hat. Just an old beat-up toboggan cap.

Fred

[jeff110]

I like the idea. It takes a community of all types of users: New MS converts, people who just want an OS that "works", people into computing as a passion and a hobby, and Linux veterans, in order to move forward. This thread is aimed at people completely new to Mint. As for many of us I could install Mint using the above requirements and have my system up and running in a few hours quite happily.

[Acid_1]

The CLI is essential. Period. It's a lot easier to tell a noob to:

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get install insertprognamehere

than to say (As well, this eliminates a lot of room for error by doing CLI):

Go to Synaptic>Click on Search>Insertprognamehere>Check it>Click Apply

While there are times that I use GUI (Copy videos to a thumb drive), using the CLI is more efficient (Making a backup copy of a root document for example). They both have there places. Heck, Windows still has the command prompt for when things get sticky. It's a part of life.

And I don't even have a hat My bad hair day sticks out for the world to see

[FedoraRefugee]

I wish I still had "hair days."

[jeff110]

I think it was explained in another thread....Not sure where. I like the idea. It takes a community of all types of users: New MS converts, people who just want an OS that "works", people into computing as a passion and a hobby, and Linux veterans, in order to move forward. Not sure if this thread is the best way to do it, but I admire the effort if it goes anywhere. Linux is really in a growth / change mode right now - and that's a good thing, even though it appears to be ruffling some feathers. Even on this board. Let the discourse continue...

[Fred]

jeff110,

I put in bold the rest of what they actually mean. Linux does work, but it works the Linux way, not the Windows way, the way they know.

New MS converts, people who just want an OS that "works" the way they think it should work.

New users should be in the learning mode, not the "change it to what I think I want mode." How do new users know what to change for the better when they don't even know how what they have works?

That is where the friction occurs.

Fred

[Acid_1]

I agree with you Fred. Take a look at it this way. Somebody switches to OSX and they assume that because they have to do something different, it is magically better (Bearing the APPLE logo seems to help). But put them on a Linux based machine, and they (usually/sometimes) assume automatically that because they can't do their Windows magic on the machine, that it is a failed OS.

Why does it work like that?

[rhY]

Because a lot of these n00bies trying out Linux are greeted with a crap fest of orange and brown delivered from Ubuntu.

This is hugely a bigger deal than the Ubuntu forums is willing to discuss. Ubuntu is UGLY out of the box!

[Acid_1]

Not gonna lie, I kind of like the Ubuntu brown. However most people don't, so I could see why it is a problem.

[satcowboy]

nice thread ...

1. Firefox dies on some pages with video

I had trouble with Firefox dying on certain web pages. Only pages with videos, but not all such pages. Turned out the Flash installation was old. Problem went away after updating to Flash 10. If the Mint updater can't include updates to Flash due to whatever, maybe it could at least detect that the installation was old.

2. Can't log in to Mint

A few days ago, Mint refused logins on any account I tried. Failsafe login had same problem. And no terminal session option, I think. Error popup said something about GDM authorization, maybe that /home/myself/.gdmrc couldn't be accessed, or something like that. I have Puppy, Mint, and XP on multi-boot, so i booted to Puppy and did filesystem checks of the Linux Mint /home and / partitions. Didn't help. Mint was up-to-date before this happened; Gloria v7 x64. Didn't see anything on the forums. So I've been booting with either Puppy or the live Linux Mint Gloria x64 CD for a few days. Today I decided to debug the problem some more, and booted to Mint without the CD. The problem had gone away!

If it comes back I will provide more info.

[satcowboy]

If the hardware drivers can detect and identify certain hardware, but can't support it, it would be nice if it reported that fact somewhere visible. Like on a message window on the apps that use that hardware (such as scanners).

[satcowboy]

A couple of months ago, needed a scanner to scan some family photos while on a visit. Walmart (at least in that town) doesn't have standalone scanners anymore, only all-in-one scanner/printer/fax machines. Bought a Lexmark. Couldn't get it to scan. Bought a Canon. Couldn't get it to scan. xsane didn't work. Downloading xsane support packs (whatever they're called) and executing them from the command line didn't work: no scan. Took the Lexmark back and gave the Canon to my mom. Who I also installed Mint 7 for after her Windows crashed .... so probably they will wind up hooking the Canon up to my brother's Mac ...

[lagagnon]

Bought a Lexmark. Couldn't get it to scan. Bought a Canon. Couldn't get it to scan. xsane didn't work.

Before purchasing it might have saved you a lot of headache to do a bit of research first to get a recommendation as to which manufacturer's are well supported with Linux drivers.