Newbie Trials and Tribulations

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Postby Fergus on Wed May 02, 2007 6:27 pm

Right i'll try and summarise what i have done.

Ok so i uninstalled beryl, then followed the instructions from here to the letter. Its long and poorly written but it covers all the base points. There is not much segmentation but, it helps to read through and figure out what you need from it.
i encountered a few errors with the libraries but that was due to me skipping something i shouldn't have.

The driver is quite painless and the reinstallation of beryl was fine also.

Now i am having a few issues with beryl- as expected it is buggy, but i'll start scouring foums for profiles that are good then go from there.

Next to install is kiba dock and gdesklets. Any points to look out for is very welcome.
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Postby Fergus on Thu May 03, 2007 7:41 pm

Ok, the latest update.

i have installed kiba dock with the help of the instructions found here

I have also installed gdesklets, this was rather trivial and just a case of finding the correct repository.

I now only have issues of rounding the edges:

kiba dock has a strange diagonal blue stripe in the background, and the icons have black squares. Still need to figure out how the settings change this.
This is also the problem with gdesklets. Initially they were transparent and now they are either completely white and non-functional or they work but with a black background.
In case anyone doesn't know - trying to add application launchers takes a minute or two to figure out. Add a panel to the task bar and choose the application launcher option then drag the appropriate icons onto the dock.

Beryl is ok in parts- very difficult to find the correct setting, and more importantly find the correct documentation to change what you like. I still haven't changed the skydome or any of the commands to execute desktop shifting.
There is big issue with the windows and the dragging bars at the top which don' appear when beryl is used over gnome. i.e. there is no minimise, no maximise and close window. I also cannot move windows and change the focus away from windows.

Any sugggestions?

Cheers!
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Postby Husse on Fri May 04, 2007 5:38 am

There is big issue with the windows and the dragging bars at the top which don' appear when beryl is used over gnome. i.e. there is no minimise, no maximise and close window.
The solution should be easy to find using the search function and it is not to difficult to implement.
You find the solution in this thread:
http://www.linuxmint.com/forum/viewtopi ... ryl&t=1036
Image
Don't fix it if it ain't broken, don't break it if you can't fix it
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Postby telic on Fri May 04, 2007 10:32 am

To restore window title bars (decorations) in Beryl/Compiz, go Terminal and enter...
Code: Select all
sudo nvidia-xconfig --add-argb-glx-visuals

Then close all open apps and restart X (Ctrl-Alt-Backspace).

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Postby Fergus on Sat May 05, 2007 6:09 pm

Telic,

thanks for that piece of info but i'm certain i have already tried this, and just like then it didn't work.
Husse - its not that i haven't used the search tools, its knowing the correct terms to search for!
Just to clarify my problems i'll post a few pngs of the issues.

This is what happens after log in, when the window manager is just metacity and gdesklets and kiba dock appear. The desklets should be transparent and i've still to find the settings for the background for kiba and to remove the black square from behind the icons in the dock.

Image


Next is what happens when i change the window manager to beryl...

Image

and finally what i see when i open a window.

Image
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Postby telic on Sat May 05, 2007 8:01 pm

The beryl-manager applet automatically invokes Beryl on my system. I never invoke beryl per se. (Ditto for Compiz, which is automatically invoked by its compiz-tray-icon applet).

From my past tinkerings, I found that blank (white) windows and loss of window decorations can result when Beryl (or Compiz) is invoked more than once after login. This appears to be your case.

Looking at the desktop screenshots you've posted here, I see that Beryl Manager is running even in the first one (its ruby icon is in your taskbar)...

Image

So when you summon beryl, it's actually being invoked a second time. That's a no-no, in my experience. Check that your system doesn't run both beryl-manager and beryl.

Ideally, software should detect if a copy of itself is already running, and gracefully avoid clobbering itself or the system operation.

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Postby telic on Sat May 05, 2007 9:54 pm

In case there's any doubt about what you're trying to do, I just now installed kiba-dock and gdesklets on my Bianca system, which is also running Beryl and nVidia drivers.

For testing, I added a couple of applications to kiba dock (Firefox and kdetv), and tickled its panel background to be green, translucent, and animated. I also put a couple of desklets on the righthand side of the desktop. And I changed the wallpaper to a Mint generic, and put my taskbar at the top of the display.

Altogether, I reckon this took about a half-hour and one ice-cold beer.

Here's a reduced screenshot (the date/time shown is EDT)...

Image
Click image to enlarge

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Postby Fergus on Sun May 06, 2007 4:13 am

Damn that ice cold beer.... thats what i forgot! :lol:


i tried to preset in the ruby icon in the task manager to beryl then logged off and logged in again - only to find the same problem. I have added beryl manager, gdesklets, and kiba to the session list of startup programs.

I just tried to take them out of the startup list to ensure that i will only invoke them once - and still the same problem. I'm beginning to think i have fudged the driver install, or some linking library.

I think i might just uninstall beryl,kiba and gdesklets and reinstallt hem from scratch. Would you be so kind as to list you steps of installation, mainly where everything came from?
At least then i can mimic you till i find the problem!
(beginning to get a headache since i have still to figure out how to install bluetooth and my 3G card-ugh!)
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Postby telic on Sun May 06, 2007 4:56 am

Would you be so kind as to list you steps of installation, mainly where everything came from?


I installed Beryl according to the Mint Wiki. I installed Kiba-Dock using the instructions on the page that you've linked to in this thread. And I got gDesklets using the Mint Synaptic repository.

Instead of Beryl, why not try Compiz, which is more stable on some setups? At one point I gave up on Beryl, and found Compiz to better behaved.

(Later, after needing to reinstall Bianca, I loaded nVidia's latest [beta] 100.14.03 drivers, which cured Beryl's glitches on my system).

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Postby Fergus on Sun May 06, 2007 3:54 pm

Ok just an update - eventually i got myself into such a fangle that i thought, stuff it i'll reinstall!
Now i follow your procedure roughly and again managed to install the nvidia driver and beryl from the sources state above.

Guess what - still i have the same lack of window buttons! Now i am trying to reconfigure my xserver.xconf as its messed up. Looks like i might be heading for my 3rd re-install as i have been at this for 20 min.

hmmm, think i might start looking for specific d620 users with the nvidia quadro nvs110m

Still no beer for me!
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Postby scorp123 on Sun May 06, 2007 4:30 pm

telic wrote:Ideally, software should detect if a copy of itself is already running, and gracefully avoid clobbering itself or the system operation.
... But we are running a multi-user + multi-tasking operating system :wink: Hence being able to run the same program again and again is not a bug, it's a feature ... :wink:
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Postby scorp123 on Sun May 06, 2007 4:35 pm

Fergus wrote:Guess what - still i have the same lack of window buttons!
Can you check your Beryl-icon what Window decorator is selected and/or available? Maybe it's just pre-set to an incorrect default and everything will be cured once you pick the correct one.

In my case I have these choices:
    Standard Beryl (Emerald)
    Beryl KDE (Aquamarine)
    Compiz GTK
If things go wrong hitting the "Reload Window Decorator" option helps too in most cases.
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Postby telic on Sun May 06, 2007 4:54 pm

scorp123 wrote:
telic wrote:Ideally, software should detect if a copy of itself is already running, and gracefully avoid clobbering itself or the system operation.
... But we are running a multi-user + multi-tasking operating system :wink: Hence being able to run the same program again and again is not a bug, it's a feature ... :wink:

What you read and what I've actually written here appear to be two different things.

I said that a program should "gracefully avoid clobbering itself or the system operation."

This is especially vital in a multi-tasking, multi-user environment.

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Postby scorp123 on Sun May 06, 2007 5:09 pm

telic wrote:I said that a program should "gracefully avoid clobbering itself or the system operation."
It's a feature :wink:

Serious now: You are of course right. "Problematic" apps (e.g. those which ideally should be only run once per system) should be able to check if they are already running. Most usually do this. Seems that Beryl's programmers forgot this feature.
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Postby Fergus on Mon May 07, 2007 4:44 am

Seems that Beryl's programmers forgot this feature.


Being the pessimistic noob - it seems that Beryls programmers forgot a lot of fundamental features!
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Postby scorp123 on Mon May 07, 2007 6:12 am

Fergus wrote: it seems that Beryls programmers forgot a lot of fundamental features!
The opposite is the case ... they probably added too many and forgot to keep an eye on stability, especially in the early releases. This is called "featuritis", when "new cool features" become more important than stability and elimination of bugs.
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Postby Fergus on Mon May 07, 2007 9:34 am

I was thinking.... should i really install all the updates when i first boot?
This means a kernel update from 2.6.17-10 to 2.6.17-11.

I just thinking of all the things that might break.

Featuritis....... ahh and whats the cure Dr Scorp?
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Postby Fergus on Mon May 07, 2007 10:15 am

YEEEEEEEEEEEESSS!

finally i got it!!! My windows have minimise and maximise and all those good buttons!

ok so how did i do it i hear you say?

Firstly.... ignore the little orange start at the startup that prompts you to update(i might try doing this later on advice), next install the nvidia drivers:

1) ctrl-alt-f1
2) sudo envy

follow through till x-server restarts

Next follow the mint wiki on installing beryl, add everything to xorg.conf including the bottom statements relating to the 32bit, but dont add it to your startup just yet.
Funily the xorg.conf was where my problems stemmed from!
Now if you look at section "screen" you will see that the default depth is 16! WHen beryl was running for me i was getting funny statements in the terminal relating to 32bits, so i thought why not change the depth to 24 bits!

Save and restart x-server with ctrl-alt-backspace and what do you know- MOVEABLE WOBBLY WINDOWS!

This is the mint bug and i think i am now infected!
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Postby Fergus on Tue May 08, 2007 5:08 pm

Just a gentle update, for installing HP networked printers, see this website for details
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Postby Fergus on Tue May 08, 2007 6:12 pm

With the good comes the bad....

i paid for crossover office just to have the ability to play with the odd few windows program that i needs.
Everything install great with the exception of the the windows applications folder which should appear on the gnome menu.
Now i realise there has been some clem genius work at creating the mint menu and so its highly likely that is causing the problem. When i go into the menu config i can see the folder and the various applications inside, i move the folder but for some reason the contents will not display.

Any ideas?


p.s. from the last few comments should i install the updates provide annoying notfications in the task bar, not 7.04 of course!
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