Will Daryna come with Compiz Fusion or Beryl?

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Will Daryna come with Compiz Fusion or Beryl?

Postby mint_is_1337 on Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:51 pm

A week before, I upgraded to Ubuntu Gutsy, and I saw that it was using Compiz Fusion instead of Beryl. That is actually one reason I turned to Mint (the other being performance) because I have configured Beryl to do what I want it to do. Also, the Compiz Fusion settings manager isn't as comprehensive as Beryl's and I couldn't get it to be like Beryl. So the question is:
Once I upgrade to Linux Mint 4, will I be able to remove Compiz Fusion and install Beryl (preferably from the repos)?
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Postby clem on Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:05 pm

Beryl is not in the repositories... you might be able to install a Feisty deb of Beryl or find a 3pp deb for Gutsy but both projects have merged and Beryl is not being developed anymore, so you'll need to make the switch soon or later.

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Postby Alpha-Geek on Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:27 pm

I have Daryna beta 021 running with Compiz-Fusion & Emerald themer. Runs & looks great, so far. Just go with Compiz-Fusion, It's more customizable & has better effects than Beryl. (IMHO)
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Postby mint_is_1337 on Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:26 pm

I am going to try it out myself (burning Daryna Beta now). thanks for your opinions!
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Postby Lolo Uila on Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:08 pm

Or stick with Celena/Cassandra and run Beryl.

Compiz-Fusion has a terrible user interface, and generally runs slower than Beryl on the same hardware. Beryl really was a much more polished application. I think the merging of the projects is unfortunate. Hopefully Compiz-Fusion will develope quickly from its current state. Right now it's crap (IMHO).

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Postby cmost on Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:26 am

Lolo Uila: I couldn't agree more. The first thing I will do in Daryna, is uninstall Compiz and reinstall my set of Beryl / Emerald debs (you can still find them on the Net.) Compiz has grown too large and too unwieldy. The focus has been placed on adding myriad of effects but at the expense of performance and usability. The merging of Compiz and Beryl was a mistake, I would have loved to see Beryl 0.3.x. It's like those guys have become drunk with special effects and can't seem to program anything else. Someone over there needs to inject a bit of common sense and work out a clean, polished interface and then drop about 1/3 of the effects that serve no good purpose but to "oooh and ahhhh" over for a minute or two (but require extensive fiddling to get "just right".) This isn't even to mention the currently piss poor KDE support (Gutsy didn't even support Compiz out of the box in the Kubuntu variant.) Beryl was an independent program that worked on many Window Managers. Compiz is unfinished by a long shot and distro developers need to make a clear statement to Compiz devs that they won't include it until it's fixed some more. But, we all know that ship has sailed as everyone seems stuck on the "wow" factor.
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Postby Lolo Uila on Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:57 pm

Are there any Beryl debs for Gutsy (be careful about installing Feisty debs in Gutsy, that's almost sure to break something)?

I added Daryna to my boot menu so I can keep playing with it, but for now I'm going to keep Celena as my primary distro. Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't find anything in Daryna that makes me want to upgrade. I added the new Mintinstall, Mintupdate and Mintdesktop to Celena so I'm not seeing anything new in Daryna.

I've still got Cassandra on my big tower. I added the new Mintinstall and Mintdesktop to that as well. I kept the Ubuntu updater for now... not sure why. Just living dangerously, I guess.

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Postby z0phi3l on Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:12 am

I have to disagree with both previous posters. CF runs 10X better than Beryl EVER did, CCSM is identical to the "old" Beryl config screens, the animations are better and other than maybe 1 or 2 plugins, I have everything I used to have with Beryl.
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Postby Lolo Uila on Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:13 am

What "old" version of Beryl are you comparing C-F too?

Because I'm comparing the 0.3.0 git version of Beryl to the current Compiz-Fusion, and Beryl runs quite a bit smoother and faster than C-F on every computer I've tried it on (and that's also true for the older 0.2.1 version). I've run it on quite a variety of hardware from an old P3 system to fast P4 and Core2 hardware. In no case did C-F run "10X better", or even equal to Beryl.

And the current Beryl Settings Manager is "10X better" than CCSM for ease of use and user friendliness. CCSM is a frustratingly stupid design with plug in controls spread out all over the place. Example, look how many posts there are on Cube Caps alone in the CF forums. What's up with having Cube Caps in TWO completely different places? The whole CCSM is fraught with poor layout choices and cryptic labeling.

And how is the animation better? Where are the settings that adjust the behavior of effects like Burn. Oh wait, there are no settings; just an "Options" box where you have to type in cryptic option settings manually. Gee, that's fun... :(

C-F is 10X better than Beryl? Right... have you even used Beryl? :roll:
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Postby cmost on Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:40 am

Yeah, again I'm with Lolo Uila. The new Compiz-Fusion is a dog. Also, I would hardly consider ccsm "identical" to the Beryl Manager. One only needs to pull up some screenshots in Google to see that it's a confusing mess. My point was not that C-F lacks effects from Beryl, but rather there are far too many of them in Compiz Fusion. And many are indeed useless in terms of improving productivity. Conventions such as compositing window managers are supposed to provide subtle effects that compliment and enhance the work flow, not get in the way. See the Apple Macintosh's OS-X as a shining example. When you're waiting 30 seconds for your window to "burn" away, or your screen is tearing as you drag a window over several others then the compositing manager has gotten in your way rather than ushered you along in your work flow.

As for running Feisty's Beryl debs on Gutsy, it works fine. Now whether or not they'll continue work on Ubuntu 8.04 and it's derivitives is another story. Perhaps by then, the Compiz folks will have their act together. As I mentioned earlier, Beryl is pretty independent. Even vanilla Debian Beryl debs work fine on Ubuntu. I simply went to /var/cache/apt/archives/ directory and fetched the 16 or so Beryl related debs I have installed on my system and copied them to a folder in my Downloads directory. These I archive to my server for reinstallation on distros that insist on using Compiz as the default. Simply go into the folder containing your Beryl debs and open a terminal. Issue the command "dpkg -i *.deb". Afterwards, you'll need to startup the beryl-manager as usual. Make sure you uninstall Compiz and all of its nonsense first. Good luck!

*** EDIT ***
If you go to the aforementioned directory but cannot find the Beryl debs, then open Synaptic; search on keyword "beryl" and then reinstall all components you already have installed (this will replace the debs in the archives directory mentioned above.) Now you can go to /var/cache/apt/archives/ and copy the debs. :-)
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