more curiosity

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more curiosity

Postby jtouso on Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:28 pm

Hi again,
Some questions about ATI/Radeon graphic charts (about 9550 AGP) and "special" effects with compiz-fussion or beryl:
1-The ati free driver from xorg works very well with beryl and compiz (if you have xserver-xgl module installed)
2-The new fglrx (official ATI-AMD driver) for first time supports aiglx and I thinks it works great with compiz AFTER installed.
3-Sometimes you need to write by yourself in xorg.conf the order to works compiz correctly, as Composite or XAANoffscreenPixmaps or AIGLX in different sections and reboot the graphic server to work....
4-I suppose that compiz and beryl works "similar"

Are the sentences true? My some of you "easy explainers" write an easy instructions (easy for a 5 years old child) about this?

It is very difficult to me understand why the same two PC, a new one with ATI X550 PCI graphic chart and an old one with ATI 9550 AGP graphic chart using in live-mode works different with some of the last new distros:

Sabayon 3.4f O.K. It ask you during begining to use XGL
Kanotix RC6b ok without asking you
LinuxMint 3.1 o.k. when you mark for special Desktop effects
LinuxMint 4.0 beta...fails
Knoppix 5.10 ok writing the script beryl
Mandriva One 2007 ok

But I like the one don' t work: LinuxMint 4.0 beta!!!!!!
thanks
Jose
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Re: more curiosity

Postby jtouso on Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:00 pm

jtouso wrote:Hi again,
Some questions about ATI/Radeon graphic charts (about 9550 AGP) and "special" effects with compiz-fussion or beryl:
1-The ati free driver from xorg works very well with beryl and compiz (if you have xserver-xgl module installed)
2-The new fglrx (official ATI-AMD driver) for first time supports aiglx and I thinks it works great with compiz AFTER installed.
3-Sometimes you need to write by yourself in xorg.conf the order to works compiz correctly, as Composite or XAANoffscreenPixmaps or AIGLX in different sections and reboot the graphic server to work....
4-I suppose that compiz and beryl works "similar"

Are the sentences true? My some of you "easy explainers" write an easy instructions (easy for a 5 years old child) about this?

It is very difficult to me understand why the same two PC, a new one with ATI X550 PCI graphic chart and an old one with ATI 9550 AGP graphic chart using in live-mode works different with some of the last new distros:

Sabayon 3.4f O.K. It ask you during begining to use XGL
Kanotix RC6b ok without asking you
LinuxMint 3.1 o.k. when you mark for special Desktop effects
LinuxMint 4.0 beta...fails
Knoppix 5.10 ok writing the script beryl
Mandriva One 2007 ok

But I like the one don' t work: LinuxMint 4.0 beta!!!!!!
thanks
Jose


This chart can help>

The matrix has you (at least, your card)

Without further ado, ladies and gents, here comes the updated matrix (as of 2007-03-29):
Graphic chips families comparison Chip maker Family Model Xorg 7.1 Maker’s driver XGL/AIGLX Working Compiz?
Intel i810 i810 to i965 2D,3D Developped in Xorg AIGLX Yes
NVIDIA Riva Riva128 2D Archived No No
NVIDIA TnT/Geforce TnT to Geforce2 (not MX) 2D (1) 2D,3D (71.xx) XGL Yes
NVIDIA Geforce (fixed) Geforce2/MX to 4 2D (1) 2D,3D (96.xx) AIGLX Yes
NVIDIA Geforce (GLSL) Geforce FX to 8 2D (2) 2D,3D (current) AIGLX Yes
ATI Mach Mach32/64, early Rage 2D (3) None No No
ATI Rage (r128) Rage M2 to Fury 2D,3D None AIGLX No (4)
ATI (Xorg) r100 to r4xx Radeon 7000 to X850 2D,3D (5) Irrelevant AIGLX Yes
ATI (closed) r300 to r6xx Radeon 9500 to X1950 Irrelevant 2D,3D XGL Yes
Sis 730 300,540,630,730 2D,3D Outdated AIGLX Yes
Sis Others 740,750 etc. 2D None No No
Matrox G200 to G550 G200 to G550 2D,3D Provides sources AIGLX Yes (6)
Matrox G100 G100 2D None No No
Matrox Parhelia Parhelia None 2D,3D, closed ? ?

(1) Nouveau needs to implement software context switching to support textures.

(2) Nouveau has working context switching on Geforce 6; Geforce 7 hangs often, Geforce 8 is a radically different hardware design.

(3) Xorg 6.9 has a working 3D driver, the kernel DRM module is experimental—as such it hasn’t been ported to Xorg 7.1 yet, but one can supposedly run XGL and Compiz on Xorg 6.9 with these chips (I’ll see if I can test that on my laptop).

(4) AIGLX loads, but the driver is missing some critical functions for Compiz to work.

(5) Early Radeon cards (7x00 to 9200) are fully supported by Xorg’s “radeonâ€￾ driver (except 9100 due to radically different memory management caused by cached/shared video memory). More recent versions are experimental and slowly get more support and speed.

(6) Glitches were found, such as texture cutoff. If the Xorg driver doesn’t work for you, get Matrox’s or download the most recent package from Xorg’s website.

Generally speaking, if you’re having trouble with a driver release, update to the latest version either from Mesa/Xorg or from the manufacturer. Using a recent kernel revision may help greatly too.
or you can see directly on:

http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/blo ... d_desktops
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Re: more curiosity

Postby Lolo Uila on Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:37 pm

jtouso wrote:Some questions about ATI/Radeon graphic charts (about 9550 AGP) and "special" effects with compiz-fussion or beryl:

1-The ati free driver from xorg works very well with beryl and compiz (if you have xserver-xgl module installed)

No, with the open-source driver you don't need Xgl. The proprietary "fglrx" driver is what needed Xgl (up to version 8.41).

jtouso wrote:2-The new fglrx (official ATI-AMD driver) for first time supports aiglx and I thinks it works great with compiz AFTER installed.

No again. Video overlay is broken with the new 8.42 driver & Compiz or Beryl. The older "fglrx" driver with Xgl works better.

jtouso wrote:3-Sometimes you need to write by yourself in xorg.conf the order to works compiz correctly, as Composite or XAANoffscreenPixmaps or AIGLX in different sections and reboot the graphic server to work....

Normally those tweaks aren't required, but they can make it run better.

jtouso wrote:4-I suppose that compiz and beryl works "similar"

No, Beryl was a much more polished application. Compiz-Fusion has a terrible user interface, and generally runs slower than Beryl on the same hardware. The Beryl-Project, unfortunately, is now dead as they have merged back with the Compiz devs on the Compiz-Fusion project. :(

jtouso wrote:Are the sentences true? My some of you "easy explainers" write an easy instructions (easy for a 5 years old child) about this?

It is very difficult to me understand why the same two PC, a new one with ATI X550 PCI graphic chart and an old one with ATI 9550 AGP graphic chart using in live-mode works different with some of the last new distros:

Sabayon 3.4f O.K. It ask you during begining to use XGL
Kanotix RC6b ok without asking you
LinuxMint 3.1 o.k. when you mark for special Desktop effects
LinuxMint 4.0 beta...fails
Knoppix 5.10 ok writing the script beryl
Mandriva One 2007 ok

But I like the one don' t work: LinuxMint 4.0 beta!!!!!!
thanks
Jose
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Re: more curiosity

Postby jtouso on Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:42 am

Lolo Uila wrote:
jtouso wrote:Some questions about ATI/Radeon graphic charts (about 9550 AGP) and "special" effects with compiz-fussion or beryl:

1-The ati free driver from xorg works very well with beryl and compiz (if you have xserver-xgl module installed)

No, with the open-source driver you don't need Xgl. The proprietary "fglrx" driver is what needed Xgl (up to version 8.41).

jtouso wrote:2-The new fglrx (official ATI-AMD driver) for first time supports aiglx and I thinks it works great with compiz AFTER installed.

No again. Video overlay is broken with the new 8.42 driver & Compiz or Beryl. The older "fglrx" driver with Xgl works better.

jtouso wrote:3-Sometimes you need to write by yourself in xorg.conf the order to works compiz correctly, as Composite or XAANoffscreenPixmaps or AIGLX in different sections and reboot the graphic server to work....

Normally those tweaks aren't required, but they can make it run better.

jtouso wrote:4-I suppose that compiz and beryl works "similar"

No, Beryl was a much more polished application. Compiz-Fusion has a terrible user interface, and generally runs slower than Beryl on the same hardware. The Beryl-Project, unfortunately, is now dead as they have merged back with the Compiz devs on the Compiz-Fusion project. :(

jtouso wrote:Are the sentences true? My some of you "easy explainers" write an easy instructions (easy for a 5 years old child) about this?

It is very difficult to me understand why the same two PC, a new one with ATI X550 PCI graphic chart and an old one with ATI 9550 AGP graphic chart using in live-mode works different with some of the last new distros:

Sabayon 3.4f O.K. It ask you during begining to use XGL
Kanotix RC6b ok without asking you
LinuxMint 3.1 o.k. when you mark for special Desktop effects
LinuxMint 4.0 beta...fails
Knoppix 5.10 ok writing the script beryl
Mandriva One 2007 ok

But I like the one don' t work: LinuxMint 4.0 beta!!!!!!
thanks
Jose


OK, I try again:

1-The ati free driver from xserver-xorg works very well, (it has 3d acceleration) with beryl (sure and tested) and compiz (not sure). Also with compizfussion??

2-The new fglrx (official ATI-AMD driver) for first time supports aiglx...and is supossed works well with compizfussion. If not with the last fglrx official ATI-AMD driver, the idea is to have fglrx + AIGLX driver.

3-Until the "magic" new official fglrx + aiglx arrives, we need to use actual official fglrx + XGL if we want 3d acceleration.

4-If you use ati opensource driver, from xserver-xorg, you can "re-write" your xorg.conf with more orders to have better results (XAANoOffscrenPixmaps, render acceleration...) but you don´t need to add Composite extensions.

5-I know Beryl is not implemented but...it is possible to use it on new Ubuntu 7.10-like distros and uninstall CompizFussion? Beryl works well.
How to do?

Thanks again
Jose
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Re: more curiosity

Postby Lolo Uila on Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:04 pm

jtouso wrote:OK, I try again:

1-The ati free driver from xserver-xorg works very well, (it has 3d acceleration) with beryl (sure and tested) and compiz (not sure). Also with compizfussion??

The Linux open-source ATI driver does support 3D accelleration, but only on older cards (the new X1k/X2k series cards are not supported). Also, the "fglrx" driver is supposed to be faster. If you can use the open-source driver and it performs well on your system then you should probably stick with it. It worked well with everything (including Beryl and Compiz) on my older X800 XT PE. It's not an option for me any longer with my new X1950. :(

jtouso wrote:2-The new fglrx (official ATI-AMD driver) for first time supports aiglx...and is supossed works well with compizfussion. If not with the last fglrx official ATI-AMD driver, the idea is to have fglrx + AIGLX driver.

I'm not sure what you are asking here. The new 8.42 "fglrx" driver does support AIGLX and compositing, but video overlay is broken. Videos flicker badly when Compiz or Beryl is running as the window manager. This does not happen with the older (non-AIGLX) driver and Xgl. For now I still recommend the older driver and Xgl for people that want to use the "fglrx" driver.

jtouso wrote:3-Until the "magic" new official fglrx + aiglx arrives, we need to use actual official fglrx + XGL if we want 3d acceleration.

Until they fix the video overlay issue that is my recommendation. Ultimately it's up the the user. The 8.42 driver does 3D fine. If you don't care about watching videos then you won't have a problem. If you want to be able to watch videos without having to turn off Compiz/Beryl then stick to the older "fglrx" driver with Xgl.

I tried the new 8.42 "fglrx" driver in Daryna/Gutsy with Xgl and it ran poorly (slow and choppy). I have not tried it with Xgl in Celena yet. In Celena I am using the older 8.34 "fglrx" driver from the Ubuntu restricted repository with Xgl, and it runs Beryl and Compiz-Fusion very well.

jtouso wrote:4-If you use ati opensource driver, from xserver-xorg, you can "re-write" your xorg.conf with more orders to have better results (XAANoOffscrenPixmaps, render acceleration...) but you don´t need to add Composite extensions.

Correct. AIGLX and Composite Extensions are enabled by default.

jtouso wrote:5-I know Beryl is not implemented but...it is possible to use it on new Ubuntu 7.10-like distros and uninstall CompizFussion? Beryl works well.
How to do?

I have heard that others have installed the Feisty debs for Beryl and it works under Daryna/Gutsy, but I have not tried this myself (yet).

jtouso wrote:Thanks again

You're welcome. :)

Aloha, Tim
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Mint xfce and ati

Postby jtouso on Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:34 pm

Just download Mint-Xfce and try in Sempron with Ati X550 (pci chart) in live mode: CompizFusion: ok and wonderfull.
I have now installed on hd as my linux distro.
Trying to do the same in my old AMD Athlon with Ati 9550 (agp chart) in live mode. CompizFusion: not working and any answer to clic over activate.
Both uses ati opensource free driver but one works and the other one no. With Beryl any problem: both works ok.
What is the difference in Compizfusion between the two graphic charts using the same ati opensourece driver?
Thanks
Jose
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Postby Lolo Uila on Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:12 pm

Hmm...not sure about that one. If Beryl works I would expect Compiz-Fusion to work as well. If one works and the other doesn't I can only think it might be an installation problem. Try and completely remove Compiz (and maybe Beryl too) and reinstall it.

Aloha, Tim
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