X madness

[lotech]

I think what made Linux not the main stream desktop OS is the complication of setting up X, every time I change display card or monitor I need to spend hours to make it work properly. Just now I connect my notebook which has a 1024x768 screen to an external 1280x1024 one, it worked but only the 1024x768 part of the screen used, it gives no virtual desktop but the wall paper cover full screen, so I think my notebook does have enough video memory to support that mode, how come not using the full screen then ?? I changed the xorg.conf many times tried to fix that, at one time the taskbar extended to full screen wide but all apps still limited to smaller size this is weird, I reboot and the taskbar reduced too !! another time I got no GUI and find that the display card setting was at the wrong PCI bus, wrong bus how come !? may be I am stupid but I would rather walk next time !! in comparison, Puppy is a 'low end' distro but it is far advanced in the X design, it does virtual desktop automatically and never leave me in the dark without a GUI, I don't know why Ubuntu sort of distro can't do that.

[Husse]

Your views are appreciated. Maybe you've had a bit of bad luck, but this is a problem
Don't know if Hardy brings any news...

[exploder]

Hardy is supposed to handle things better. We can all hope! This is a focal point in Hardy and many distributions now.

[lotech]

Yes I hope too, sorry for my 'rude' message, I am getting sick and tired with this long time problem, and it seems Xorg is not ATI friendly which I got this problem mostly with.

[lotech]

Here is the 'working' configuration, I can have full screen on external monitor but some apps such as Firefox and Thunderbird can't maximize to full but some others can, I can also move the windows around the full screen area, there are 2 things it can't do, I can't change refresh rate and the monitor power save reset to 30min., the latter problem has been fixed long ago on Ubuntu how come it reoccurs here !!

==================================================================
# xorg.conf (xorg X Window System server configuration file)
#
# This file was generated by dexconf, the Debian X Configuration tool, using
# values from the debconf database.
#
# Edit this file with caution, and see the xorg.conf manual page.
# (Type "man xorg.conf" at the shell prompt.)
#
# This file is automatically updated on xserver-xorg package upgrades *only*
# if it has not been modified since the last upgrade of the xserver-xorg
# package.
#
# If you have edited this file but would like it to be automatically updated
# again, run the following command:
# sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg

Section "Files"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier "Generic Keyboard"
Driver "kbd"
Option "CoreKeyboard"
Option "XkbRules" "xorg"
Option "XkbModel" "pc105"
Option "XkbLayout" "us"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier "Configured Mouse"
Driver "mouse"
Option "CorePointer"
Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
Option "Protocol" "ImPS/2"
Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
Option "Emulate3Buttons" "true"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier "Synaptics Touchpad"
Driver "synaptics"
Option "SendCoreEvents" "true"
Option "Device" "/dev/psaux"
Option "Protocol" "auto-dev"
Option "HorizEdgeScroll" "0"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
Driver "wacom"
Identifier "stylus"
Option "Device" "/dev/input/wacom"
Option "Type" "stylus"
Option "ForceDevice" "ISDV4" # Tablet PC ONLY
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
Driver "wacom"
Identifier "eraser"
Option "Device" "/dev/input/wacom"
Option "Type" "eraser"
Option "ForceDevice" "ISDV4" # Tablet PC ONLY
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
Driver "wacom"
Identifier "cursor"
Option "Device" "/dev/input/wacom"
Option "Type" "cursor"
Option "ForceDevice" "ISDV4" # Tablet PC ONLY
EndSection

Section "Device"
Identifier "ATI Technologies Inc Radeon Mobility M6 LY"
Driver "ati"
BusID "PCI:1:0:0"
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
Identifier "Generic Monitor"
Option "DPMS"
EndSection

Section "Screen"
Identifier "Default Screen"
Device "ATI Technologies Inc Radeon Mobility M6 LY"
Monitor "Generic Monitor"
DefaultDepth 24
SubSection "Display"
Modes "1024x768"
EndSubSection
EndSection

Section "ServerLayout"
Identifier "Default Layout"
Screen "Default Screen"
InputDevice "Generic Keyboard"
InputDevice "Configured Mouse"

# Uncomment if you have a wacom tablet
# InputDevice "stylus" "SendCoreEvents"
# InputDevice "cursor" "SendCoreEvents"
# InputDevice "eraser" "SendCoreEvents"
InputDevice "Synaptics Touchpad"
EndSection

[hkphooey]

Did you find the Screens and Graphics applet in the Administration section? I haven't used it myself, but that seems to hold the key -- you just set up the second monitor with a different resolution and then position it correctly.

[lotech]

Where is it on the K menu not the 'tasty' one ??

[Husse]

@ lotech
You are using Daryna KDE beta?
It differs in more respects than the KDE from the main edition, I think it's actually based on Kubuntu and not Mint main. It's of course "adjusted" to Daryna but there may be small differences.
According to another member of the team there will be a drastic change in the handling of X in Hardy, which of course will happen in Elyssa too.
So if we are to believe that the major problems will be gone
I wish it was simpler already, but on the other hand I know I've helped quite a few people with dual view and it seems to work - but it's perhaps not ATI
Have you tried the very latest driver? It seems that ATI has put a lot of work in the drivers lately

[lotech]

I am using a NEC notebook with ATI display, not the latest model so the supplied driver should work, I only want to clone the display to a higher resolution monitor this shouldn't be too hard to do.

[Husse]

With nvidia it just happens....
Oh I wish Lolo Uila was still around. This forum member really knew ATI
I have never used ATI with the exception of a VESA-bus card in the mid nineties, so I feel a bit handicapped
I found this - a bit old but perhaps useful
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=221174
But it's hell of a lot of work....
And I remember you could put something in xorg.conf, but can't find it
Lets hope Hardy has something good...

[Fred]

lotech,

Maybe it would help to realize why this situation exists. Graphics issues are mostly due to the card manufacturers unwillingness to release the specs to the open source community. Almost everything has to be reverse engineered, which is a time consuming fault ridden task. Proprietary drivers are notoriously buggy. If the card manufacturers don't respond to requests for fixes there isn't much open source developers can do about it.

Puppy as a whole, doesn't use a lot of fancy graphics. Thats why they don't have near the problems with graphics as a cutting edge distro does.

Maybe as more and more people start using Linux the card manufacturers will care more about what Linux users think of their products.

Just make sure you assign blame to the right parties. Criticizing "Linux" for the intransigence and shortcomings of graphics card manufacturers does not encourage them to do better.

Fred

[lotech]

The hardware I am using is at least 4-5yrs. old, so I guess it is not as cutting edge as the latest Linux distro, and my problem mostly connect with ATI that make me feel Linux/Xorg is not ATI friendly, but if one distro works better than the other then the problem is not directly related to the driver. Since I am not a developer I can't provide any help, I can only 'express my concern', this kind of communication is very common amongst Linux forum, and also part of the driving force to develop a better distro...... I tried many distro and always have problem get the X working, so I think this is the weakness of Linux in general prevented it in general desktop use.

[Fred]

lotech,

It is true that some distros do a better job in some areas than others. But consider that they are working with unknown binary blobs. A lot of guess work is involved.

lotech wrote:
The hardware I am using is at least 4-5yrs. old, so I guess it is not as cutting edge as the latest Linux distro, and my problem mostly connect with ATI that make me feel Linux/Xorg is not ATI friendly

You make my point well here. It isn't the age of the hardware. It is the fact that it, as well as the drivers are proprietary. Windows xp has been out for years too but the specifications, protocols, and interfaces are still not available. They are proprietary. ATI has historically been one of the most uncooperative graphics card manufactures. So it isn't surprising that their cards create problems for Xorg and Linux. Actually it is ATI that is not Xorg friendly, not the other way around. This is beginning to change now that ATI has been bought by AMD. It will just take some time.

Fred

[lotech]

O thanks for telling me I don't know ATI changed hand ! it used to be my favorite brand for display card, and I hope AMD will make it more Linux friendly then.

[lotech]

The external monitor suddenly changed to 800x600 for unknown reason, I can't change it back to 1280x1024 via the control center, the setting did not take effect, gave it up, I copy back the working configure file instead, then I tried to change refresh rate coz my monitor 'waving', but nothing except 60Hz available, I have different display modes on file but none shows up on system setting, gave it up, I want to set the monitor power save to 5min, but it keep resetting to 30min. gave it up......

[lotech]

The external monitor display at full resolution on one reboot, then it changed to 1024x768 after normal shutdown, I copy the working config back again but still can't fix that, then try to play with control center a bit, but the admin logon prompt doesn't show, I forced a reboot with the power switch, then it come back with the correct resolution again !! but the monitor power save still lock at 30min., this happened before on previous version of Ubuntu, not 30 but 45min., some improvement I wonder the devil is playing around somewhere other than the xorg.conf