Running here to VirtualBox & away from Windows 7 & all MSaps

[FreeCat]

Howdy - I am coming to Linux to get away from W7 and all MS applications. I know I will always be stuck with a few so having something like Virtual Box may be my answer to lock W7 in that box (and throw away the key .

My whole story is a tiresome, long rant for those who have a masochistic tendency and are into punishment can read it here:
http://forum.piriform.com/index.php?showtopic=38840#entry235987

Basically, today June 17th, I am a four day Mint virgin and jumped up and down when I discovered the Mint GUI in my stand alone machine finally worked 15 minutes ago. I am very grateful to hazelnut and login123 for their help in getting me going.

I am interested in any information/links on Virtual Box in Linux, and hopefully I can somehow use that info in Mint.
Five calls into Oracle on Virtual Box so far over the last week and no returns; so this is not going to be as simple as I think.

Also, I am interested in anyone else's thought on getting away from all MS "products."

[The-Wizard]

welcome to the Mint family forums

i am not a gamer so it was easy for me haven't used any M$ in over 2 yrs

wizard

[trapperjohn]

I have VBox installed in Mint and I run a Win7 VM. It's uncomplicated. Dive in.

I prefer installing VBox from the Oracle site rather than from the package manager. I also install the Extension pack that you will see on the Oracle download page. Once VBox is setup you will have to add your user to the vboxusers group. (see users and groups in the menu). Log out after this step!

Making your Win7 VM is easy accomplished using the menu>new wizard. I make my virtual partition a dyanmic volume with a maximum size of 30GB. Oracle has the best guide: https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Documentation. Definitely give it a read. This is a great, powerful application. I manage a couple dozen computers for community non-profits. None of them have a native Windows install. Have a look here: [url]http://www.mark-bishop.net/Vbox.php[/url]

[jesica]

Good day
Welcome to the forum

[FreeCat]

Thanks TrapperJohn,

Great feeling in seeing your post. I love that "jump right in"!

If you have time for a few questions, I would appreciate your suggestions:

I am assuming that for Mint 15 you used Ubuntu 12.10. True? Or was it 13.04?

I do not understand how to install directly form the Oracle site. It seems they have ISO to download and that is it. Maybe I just do not understand the procedure. Can you give me a link?

Also, I have a physical W7 Ultimate 64b hard drive and would like to visualize that. I am not sure if the W7 gets "pulled into some virtual space or is just used on the W7 drive. Whatever it is, I want to do it the right way. Is there a link that describes that?

Very strange TrapperJohn as my name is Pierce and I have 20/20 vision.

Thanks, Jessica for the hello.

[trapperjohn]

Hi,

Most of my computers have Linux Mint as a base OS. I have about 20 different Virtual Machines including XP, Win7, Ubuntu, Kali, Fedora, and others.

A few definitions:
The main machine that runs Virtualbox is called the "Host." The virtual box machine that runs in it is called the "guest." If say my host OS is Linux Mint we say my "native" install is Linux Mint.

Virtualbox is a GUI program that runs on the host and allows you to install/run virtual machines "as though" they were real installs. But they don't require you to make a partition for the guest OS. Rather, they reside in a big file with a .vdi extension.

Let's say we have Mint (or Ubuntu) as our native OS. Go to https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads. You will see a list of "appropriate" packages. I get the one for "All distributions." Choose i386 vs AMD64 depending on your host's machine's processor type. When you download it, you will see a file named VirtualBox-4.2.12-84980-Linux_x86.run.

Right click on the file, choose properties>permissions, and tick the box for "allow executing the file..."

Now, from a terminal, cd to your download folder and run:

sudo sh VirtualBox-4.2.12-84980-Linux_x86.run
Follow through with the install dialog. When complete, go to your User and Groups menu, click "manage groups," scroll to vboxusers in the list, get properties, and put an x in the box next to your user name. OK your way out of the users GTK, close all your applications, and log out or restart.

Now, somewhere in your menu, you have a menu item for virtual box (usually in your system menu). Start it.

The easyist way to get started is to create a new VM with the "Machine>new" menu item. There will be a dialog for creating the .vdi (virtual hard drive) file. Once you have it, you install the system using the start icon.... but first you must have an install cd or an iso file. If you have an install cd in you cd drive, VBox will look there when you start. If you have an iso file, you have to tell it where the file is located with the "settings>storage" menu.

The settings are the key. What do they mean? What are the Options? The answers can be found in the document at https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Documentation in the "configuring virtualbox section.

Like any thing else, you'll have to experiment a bit... and make a few mistakes. Let's go that far first. Install VBox and create a working VM. Then, read about installing the VBox extension pack (in the host) and the VBox Guest Additions" in the guest. These additional packages will make your vm behave much better.

[FreeCat]

Wow. Kwel, Trapper John.
Without your help I would be lost.
I have installed VM and made my first XP Pro 32b machine.
It works fine and I have installed some basics on it to play around.
-
BTW, I could not get Users and Groups in Mint. It was totally gone.
So, in case someone else follows this, I poked around and found that I had to do this to put them on Mint:
sudo aptitude install gnome-system-tools
Then Users and Groups was in the System list where I think it is supposed to be.
Credit goes to these folks: http://programmingishard.blogspot.com/2012/07/adding-users-and-groups-back-into-linux.html
-
I have noticed that several times I have gotten the messages 30 days to activate your Windows;
now, this machine came with XP and I have the COA for it, so I guess before 30 days I will just type the COA key into Windows and be activated. But, I am wondering, if I want to make a second XP in this VB would I use the same key. How does that work?
-
My next step is to virtualize my physical W7 Ultimate 64b working/boot-able drive.
Do you have any suggestions on doing that?
-
Also, I am wanting to make another guest which will be Mint for experimenting so I do not mess my this base Mint with my lack of knowledge. So, are there any gottchas in doing that?

[trapperjohn]

VBox is a great way to experiment with new operating systems. Running Mint as a guest is a good way to learn the ropes.

When I setup my Windows 7 VM, I did not try to import an existing native install into a VBox vdi. Rather, I reinstalled Win 7 in a new virtual machine.

I understand that some folks have, at least with Windows XP, sucessfully migrated a native install to a VBox guest, but it is a complicated task (with some potential license issues).

I have a multiple Win7 license, so I have both a native install (available as a triple boot) and a virtual install (as a VBox guest). The fact is, I haven't bothered to boot the native install for a long, long time. Essentially everything/anything I want to do in Windows can be done in the vm.

The only limitation I have found with virtual machines is that they don't allow direct access to my native hardware (all of my "hardware" in the VM is virtual hardware). That doesn't mean my graphics don't render well. Installing the VBox extension pack on the host and the Guest additions in the guest handles all the screen resolution, mouse integration, etc. But certain applications (games, GPGPU, SDR) are more productive on native hardware. Use your native install for all your GPU intensive stuff.

[FreeCat]

Great info TrapperJohn and again thank you from the bottom of my heart.

I am a little worried about what you said about not using devices like DVDs and CDs, but I suppose there will be some way to read and write them.

Well, I am moving this year and after I move I may ask you about how I can support some support for non-profit groups.

BTW, if you can think of anyone (or links) who know the complications of virtualizing a physical W7 U64b, please let me know. I do not have confidence in any of the link I have found. I really have to virtualize it if I am going to continue with VB as a serious tool in my work. My machine is loaded with 64 GB RAM and 8 TB of drives and 8 monitors, and I have so many programs installed (and settings, etc) that it would take me several months to duplicate them all on a clean machine. Any thoughts would help. Thanks again, and God Bless you!

[trapperjohn]

I am a little worried about what you said about not using devices like DVDs and CDs

You can use those devices as well as usbs, and most others.

[FreeCat]

Hi TrapperJohn,

I am learning (sort of) Linux Mint Olivia, and, as I said, I like it.

But, I have noticed that Olivia 15 will only be supported until Jan 2014 and Maya will be supported until 2017. I am wondering if I should switch to Maya and what I would be missing if I did. In February 2014 would I have to do a new install of LM 16? I am not a typical male and do not look forward to changing my woman each year.

I would appreciate any thoughts. Thanks again.

[The-Wizard]

you could always try the Debian edition, its a stable rolling release

[trapperjohn]

Hi TrapperJohn,

I am learning (sort of) Linux Mint Olivia, and, as I said, I like it.

But, I have noticed that Olivia 15 will only be supported until Jan 2014 and Maya will be supported until 2017. I am wondering if I should switch to Maya and what I would be missing if I did. In February 2014 would I have to do a new install of LM 16? I am not a typical male and do not look forward to changing my woman each year.

I would appreciate any thoughts. Thanks again.

I prefer LTS releases of Mint and stable releases of debian. Why? Because I manage many systems and I prefer stable relationships with the machines and their users. I miss out on the spice of evolving release adventures, but I can focus better on applications and not the OS that enables them. I like Maya for my desktop and for the volunteer group users I work with. I choose Mate over CInnimon. Agian, all of this is just my preference. I run Olivia in a VBox machine, just to keep up with the new features.

Debian Wheezy is my default OS on my laptop. It typically runs about 15 degrees cooler with a carefully crafted Debian OS. But, first become familiar with Linux using Mint. Later, when you are feeling confident, test Debian in a VBox machine.

[FreeCat]

Thanks TJ, that is just what I wanted to know, and I understood what you said (very clear). So, my experiment with Olivia and VB brining in xp guest is working fine and now I know when I get the big box going, I will use Maya to put VB on.

Prolly now would be a good time to make a Maya guest in my experimental VB to get familiar with it.

TJ, I assume there is a way to update Maya as improvements come out but I can not find a page that talks about that. Do you know of any sites that have the Maya update procedure?

Wizard, I did not know the reason for your mentioning Debian. could you tell me why?

Thanks guys, for your help (assuming you, Wizard, are a wizard and not a wizardess).

[The-Wizard]

Mint Debian is a rolling release based on a stable edition of Debian,
now im no expert but my friends who use this edition say that they do so to avoid the regular releases as it is constantly updated It comes with the benefit of all the driver and software of other mint releases, is faster [slightly] is still available with Cinnamon or mate desk tops although KDE and XFCE desktops seem to be preferd by many,
I recently started to run lmde-xfce on my netbook as its a bit faster than the main edition on the limited ram i have [only 500mb] it takes up less space on my 7gb SSD and the battery last longer [by about 11%]

wizard

[FreeCat]

Howdy Wizard,

I can not find Linux Mint Debian on the Linux Mint site, can you tell me where to get it?

Thanks for your answer; also, that laptop story give me a good feeling about Linux.
Where do you get that version?

[trapperjohn]

You won't find it, don't look.

Debian is a different distribution. (Ubuntu is based on it and Mint is based on Ubuntu).

To install debian go to the debian site.

I recommend that, for now, you do not do this (unless you are installing it in a test VM).

Stick with Mint until you are confident with Linux.

Debian is harder to configure than Mint.... and their forum can be a tough neighborhood for a newbie.

[The-Wizard]

you don't think i recommend something we didn't have!

here you go

http://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php

wizard

[trapperjohn]

Ubuntu, Linux Mint, and many other distros are "Based" on Debian... at some level in their ancesty. Some are very near-to-origin forks, with minor changes only to applications installed originally and software sources lists. An example is Kali Linux... a near dead ringer for Debian. Debian - as distributed from Debian.org - , strictly observes open source software policy. To take advantage of proprietary drivers, etc. there will be a configuration process that, in many cases, is a bit convoluted in process and is sometimes riddled with dependancy complications.

Note that the url provided in the pervious post includes the text:

Cons:

LMDE requires a deeper knowledge and experience with Linux, dpkg and APT.
Debian is a less user-friendly/desktop-ready base than Ubuntu. Expect some rough edges.
No EFI, GPT or secureBoot support.

If you are migrating from Windows and just learning Linux, the Mint editions like Maya and Olivia are well designed to make your learning process easy. Recent migrants from Windows that I work with are running Mint Maya 13. They were up and running in one day.

I am writing this post from a Debian-Wheezy OS. When you are confident with Linux, you will should look into Debian (from the debian.org site). It is a good way to build a system using a functional base and custom build the kernel and install programs and damons that do the things that you want... and only those things. It will take up less space, have a lower overhead, boot faster, run applications faster, and run cooler. Even with moderate experience with Linux you will get jammed up during configuration. Start in a VM and, once installed, take a snapshop. Make mistakes, learning as you go, then restore the snapshots and do everything over... the right way. A few cycles through the process, you will probably be ready for a native install. At this point, you will encounter driver configurations for your native hardware. You will not be able to "restore a snapshot." You will have to manually undo your mistakes, which can be a bear if your random path in configuration discovery is long.