No updates?

deb http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest testing main contrib non-free
deb-src http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest testing main contrib non-free
Forum rules
Before you post please read this

Re: No updates?

Postby LifeInTheGrey on Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:00 pm

KBD47 wrote:I must admit the updates concern me. Twice now I have borked Debian installs by setting the repositories to Testing. My Debian Mint install was made unusable by running Testing updates set to the Testing repository, and I tried a dist update/upgrade on SalineOS Debian by pointing to Testing. I don't know if the third time will be a charm or the end of my experiment with Debian Testing :(
KBD47


If you really wanna try something adventurous (until UP4, that is), I personally have just installed straight Debian Testing from scratch running XFCE 4.8 with all the multimedia files one expects (I've already given a tutorial to one gentleman who was interested, so I could give a step-by-step guide). It doesn't have some of the Minty finishing touches (like it doesn't have proprietary programs like Firefox, only Iceweasel, and the standard flashplugin-nonfree, stuff like that), but it is ridiculously lightweight, super stable and is a great way to fill the gap between update packs. At the very least, you would learn a TON about how the Debian system works, I know I did.
the beauty of linux is that the rabbit hole goes as deep as you want it to go.
LifeInTheGrey
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:38 pm
Location: Seattle

Linux Mint is funded by ads and donations.
 

Re: No updates?

Postby rhodry on Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:53 pm

KBD47 wrote:I must admit the updates concern me. Twice now I have borked Debian installs by setting the repositories to Testing. My Debian Mint install was made unusable by running Testing updates set to the Testing repository, and I tried a dist update/upgrade on SalineOS Debian by pointing to Testing. I don't know if the third time will be a charm or the end of my experiment with Debian Testing :(
KBD47


What updates??? :)

Seriously, if you want to run a true Debian based rolling release, you need to move your repos to Sid. I prefer to call it that because "Unstable" is a misnoemer. Testing is only a rolling release for a window in time, until the next Stable freeze occurs, and after the freeze it is a flood for a while. That's way more "unstable" than Sid. The Update Packs just make sure it is never rolling.

The only real requirement when using Sid is that you stay well informed before you ever type in "apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade! I have NEVER had a Sid system break unless during a dist-upgrade; and even then recovery is usually quite possible. You must join the Debian Forums; even though the thread in here is very informative, Debian Weather is a good idea and install 'apt-listbugs'. If there is any doubt about an upgrade breaking something - just hold off until you are satisfied all is ok. You are in control of when updates/upgrades occurr. Learn how to 'pin' packages to hold the odd package back.

My only use for LMDE at the moment is that it makes a nice initial installer for Sid systems. The initial upgrade doesn't take long because I keep an AptOnCD handy. Borking the move to "Testing" is usually caused by leaving the Mint sources open or at least not 'pinning' everything appropriately. Have a go at moving to Sid, I think you will enjoy it. There's plenty of help around.

cheers,
rhodry.
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
it's about learning to dance in the rain.
rhodry
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:32 am

Re: No updates?

Postby KBD47 on Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:25 pm

LifeInTheGrey wrote:


If you really wanna try something adventurous (until UP4, that is), I personally have just installed straight Debian Testing from scratch running XFCE 4.8 with all the multimedia files one expects (I've already given a tutorial to one gentleman who was interested, so I could give a step-by-step guide). It doesn't have some of the Minty finishing touches (like it doesn't have proprietary programs like Firefox, only Iceweasel, and the standard flashplugin-nonfree, stuff like that), but it is ridiculously lightweight, super stable and is a great way to fill the gap between update packs. At the very least, you would learn a TON about how the Debian system works, I know I did.[/quote]

I find the straight Debian installer intimidating enough :) A step by step guide to using that crazy installer would be a job in itself I would think. Right now I will be happy if the Latest update packs don't bork my installs, after the freeze I'm planning on switching my repositories to Stable.
I really want the impossible, I want Debian Stable with updated software.
KBD47
KBD47
Level 6
Level 6
 
Posts: 1025
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:03 am

Re: No updates?

Postby KBD47 on Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:33 pm

rhodry wrote:
What updates??? :)

Seriously, if you want to run a true Debian based rolling release, you need to move your repos to Sid. I prefer to call it that because "Unstable" is a misnoemer. Testing is only a rolling release for a window in time, until the next Stable freeze occurs, and after the freeze it is a flood for a while. That's way more "unstable" than Sid. The Update Packs just make sure it is never rolling.

The only real requirement when using Sid is that you stay well informed before you ever type in "apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade! I have NEVER had a Sid system break unless during a dist-upgrade; and even then recovery is usually quite possible. You must join the Debian Forums; even though the thread in here is very informative, Debian Weather is a good idea and install 'apt-listbugs'. If there is any doubt about an upgrade breaking something - just hold off until you are satisfied all is ok. You are in control of when updates/upgrades occurr. Learn how to 'pin' packages to hold the odd package back.

My only use for LMDE at the moment is that it makes a nice initial installer for Sid systems. The initial upgrade doesn't take long because I keep an AptOnCD handy. Borking the move to "Testing" is usually caused by leaving the Mint sources open or at least not 'pinning' everything appropriately. Have a go at moving to Sid, I think you will enjoy it. There's plenty of help around.

cheers,
rhodry.


I admire you guys who run Sid. I'm not that adventurous :-)
When I tried the dist upgrade on SalineOS it wouldn't even let me login afterward. When I ran the update on LMDE set to Testing (over 800 updates) it broke several things, one of which I remember was dropbox. I tried to fix a few things but got caught up in dependecy hell. Those things pretty much quenched any adventurous spirit in me. I'm getting tired of reinstalling OS's on my computer. I like to try out different systems on usb sticks, but once I get my main computer operating system where I want it, I really don't want it borked.
KBD47
KBD47
Level 6
Level 6
 
Posts: 1025
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:03 am

Re: No updates?

Postby LifeInTheGrey on Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:38 pm

KBD47 wrote:I admire you guys who run Sid. I'm not that adventurous :-)
When I tried the dist upgrade on SalineOS it wouldn't even let me login afterward. When I ran the update on LMDE set to Testing (over 800 updates) it broke several things, one of which I remember was dropbox. I tried to fix a few things but got caught up in dependecy hell. Those things pretty much quenched any adventurous spirit in me. I'm getting tired of reinstalling OS's on my computer. I like to try out different systems on usb sticks, but once I get my main computer operating system where I want it, I really don't want it borked.
KBD47


I would recommend giving aptitude a try, rather than apt-get. The veterans here will certain recall the old debates between the two, but for Debian-specific systems (rather than Ubuntu), I have found aptitude handles dependencies, breakages, and purging MUCH better. I mean it basically just does everything for you, and if there is a breakage it tries to provide a solution (although, if there is a breakage, I just don't go through the update ... i see what package breaks the update, pin it, and then do it). It would probably help more with XFCE than GNOME (just because GNOME is an entire version upgrade), but it might aid in your quest.
the beauty of linux is that the rabbit hole goes as deep as you want it to go.
LifeInTheGrey
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:38 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: No updates?

Postby KBD47 on Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:51 pm

LifeInTheGrey wrote:
I would recommend giving aptitude a try, rather than apt-get. The veterans here will certain recall the old debates between the two, but for Debian-specific systems (rather than Ubuntu), I have found aptitude handles dependencies, breakages, and purging MUCH better. I mean it basically just does everything for you, and if there is a breakage it tries to provide a solution (although, if there is a breakage, I just don't go through the update ... i see what package breaks the update, pin it, and then do it). It would probably help more with XFCE than GNOME (just because GNOME is an entire version upgrade), but it might aid in your quest.


I haven't heard much about aptitude, I usually see apt-get suggested. If it helps prevents breakage it would be a very good thing.
KBD47
KBD47
Level 6
Level 6
 
Posts: 1025
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:03 am

Re: No updates?

Postby LifeInTheGrey on Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:12 pm

KBD47 wrote:
LifeInTheGrey wrote:
I would recommend giving aptitude a try, rather than apt-get. The veterans here will certain recall the old debates between the two, but for Debian-specific systems (rather than Ubuntu), I have found aptitude handles dependencies, breakages, and purging MUCH better. I mean it basically just does everything for you, and if there is a breakage it tries to provide a solution (although, if there is a breakage, I just don't go through the update ... i see what package breaks the update, pin it, and then do it). It would probably help more with XFCE than GNOME (just because GNOME is an entire version upgrade), but it might aid in your quest.


I haven't heard much about aptitude, I usually see apt-get suggested. If it helps prevents breakage it would be a very good thing.
KBD47


Yeah, apt-get is more commonly used just because its been around longer. Aptitude was developed as an improvement upon the apt-get system, but old habits die hard, and a lot of people still use apt-get. If you have a little free time and want to read about the difference between the two (and I mean, who wouldn't haha), check out this article, it explains pretty well why aptitude is better (and why its more suited to your dependency hell problems :P).
the beauty of linux is that the rabbit hole goes as deep as you want it to go.
LifeInTheGrey
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:38 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: No updates?

Postby KBD47 on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:26 pm

Thanks!
KBD47
Level 6
Level 6
 
Posts: 1025
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:03 am

Re: No updates?

Postby tzunder on Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:39 am

I am very happy for the maintainers to make considered decisions about delaying updates.
Stability is important and as such if the upstream is broken or the volunteers in Mint are too busy to check them, then I can wait.
If you want bleeding edge Debian, go get it..
tzunder
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:43 am

Re: No updates?

Postby ChiVampir on Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:08 pm

I'm wondering: If you are concerned with security because of the lack of updates (I know update pack 4 is coming, but I'm expecting there will be a while for update pack 5) is it possible to change the security repo to testing while using linux mint repos for multimedia? Or should you use either testing of linux mint for both?

I just changed into the linux mint repos (required by update pack 3) before that I just used testing without any major issues. Should I switch back or is the security and multimedia "repo mixing" I asked about above possible?
User avatar
ChiVampir
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 4:29 pm
Location: Norway

Re: No updates?

Postby zerozero on Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:48 am

zerozero
Level 16
Level 16
 
Posts: 6474
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:29 pm

Re: No updates?

Postby Brian49 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:49 pm

LifeInTheGrey wrote:I would recommend giving aptitude a try, rather than apt-get.

After trying out aptitude and finding it very satisfactory, I thought I would be able to uninstall the apt package in which apt-get is included. But when I try to do that, via Synaptic, I get the "this may render your system unusable" message. Do you happen to know why that is, please? Many thanks.
Brian49
Level 5
Level 5
 
Posts: 610
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:27 pm

Re: No updates?

Postby viking777 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:04 pm

Brian49 wrote:
LifeInTheGrey wrote:I would recommend giving aptitude a try, rather than apt-get.

After trying out aptitude and finding it very satisfactory, I thought I would be able to uninstall the apt package in which apt-get is included. But when I try to do that, via Synaptic, I get the "this may render your system unusable" message. Do you happen to know why that is, please? Many thanks.


You can't remove apt!!

Aptitude itself depends on apt.

Just forget the idea - for your own sake :)
Fujitsu Lifebook AH532. Intel i5 processor, 6Gb ram, Intel HD3000 graphics, Intel Audio/wifi. Realtek RTL8111/8168B Ethernet.Lubuntu 13.10,Ubuntu12.10 (Unity), Mint16 (Cinnamon), Manjaro (Xfce).
Image
User avatar
viking777
Level 14
Level 14
 
Posts: 5153
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:21 am

Re: No updates?

Postby Brian49 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:48 pm

I certainly wasn't about to make any sudden move after getting that warning. But it's a bit surprising, when aptitude is bing contrasted with apt-get, to find that they both depend on apt anyway.
Brian49
Level 5
Level 5
 
Posts: 610
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:27 pm

Re: No updates?

Postby marcus0263 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:09 pm

Brian49 wrote:I certainly wasn't about to make any sudden move after getting that warning. But it's a bit surprising, when aptitude is bing contrasted with apt-get, to find that they both depend on apt anyway.


aptitude is just an application that provides additional features to apt which is a core system program for debian. You know much like using brasero uses cdrdao to burn cd/dvd's.
Shuttle SX58
Intel i7 Gulftown Hex Core
G.Skill 16Gig 1333
OCS Vertex 2 SSD
Segate SATA II
Palit GeForce GTS 450
LMKDE 14 64Bit

Where Thought Crime is Committed
Reject the Herd
User avatar
marcus0263
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:40 am
Location: Seattle

Re: No updates?

Postby Brian49 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:21 pm

Thanks, I'm grateful for the explanation. I'm always on the lookout for ways to reduce the number of installed packages, but evidently this isn't one of them!
Brian49
Level 5
Level 5
 
Posts: 610
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:27 pm

Re: No updates?

Postby marcus0263 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:33 pm

Brian49 wrote:Thanks, I'm grateful for the explanation. I'm always on the lookout for ways to reduce the number of installed packages, but evidently this isn't one of them!


You and me both ;)

Cheers
Shuttle SX58
Intel i7 Gulftown Hex Core
G.Skill 16Gig 1333
OCS Vertex 2 SSD
Segate SATA II
Palit GeForce GTS 450
LMKDE 14 64Bit

Where Thought Crime is Committed
Reject the Herd
User avatar
marcus0263
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:40 am
Location: Seattle

Re: No updates?

Postby ej64 on Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:51 am

KBD47 wrote:Right now I will be happy if the Latest update packs don't bork my installs, after the freeze I'm planning on switching my repositories to Stable. I really want the impossible, I want Debian Stable with updated software.

I stumbled over this. Don't do that literally!

ATM you are on something like testing=wheezy with Mint latest repos. The freeze is scheduled to take place in June, testing will then still be Wheezy and stable will still be Squeeze. Not until the release of Wheezy/Debian 7 (perhaps Jan 2013) will stable become Wheezy. If you will change your repos to "stable" after the freeze you are attempting to downgrade ...

What you can do after the freeze is changing your repos to "wheezy", that's testing atm and will become stable after the release. "testing" and "stable" (together with "oldstable") both are just links to the upcoming, actual and passing releases in their different release phases.

To get "updated software" after wheezy's release there will be a new repo called wheezy-backports. Make shure then (perhaps in Jan 2013) to add this new repo to your sources.list
Thinkpad X220 with Samsung SSD running Xubuntu 13.04
I'm getting old gladly -- I don't like to die young ...
ej64
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:43 am
Location: somewhere in Germany

Re: No updates?

Postby Blade20 on Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:45 am

I do not post often, but something about this post has just pushed me to. I have read as far into this thread as I could stand, and the complaints of how LMDE is dead or that the Mint team is putting someones system and or computer at risk are overwhelming. I have read how there is nothing we can do and how we should stop using LMDE, I have read how the Mint team should stop "tricking people" into installing LMDE. then I see people who really like LMDE for various reasons. but the one thing that I did not see (I did not read all pages of this thread) when told that the Mint team is small and doing the best they can. of all of the people that complained about the slow progress of LMDE not one offered to help in any way. If you have ever used Mint Ubuntu and know what Mint can do for that OS. think of what Mint can do for an OS that is already stable, and If you did not research you should. Debian is THE oldest running distro alive today. It is also known for it's stability. all of this comes from how it does it's updates. So as for me, Mint team, thank you all for your dedication, time, and hard work. just let me know if there is anything I can do to help.
Blade20
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:50 pm

Re: Re: No updates?

Postby marcus0263 on Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:04 am

Blade20 wrote:I do not post often, but something about this post has just pushed me to. I have read as far into this thread as I could stand, and the complaints of how LMDE is dead or that the Mint team is putting someones system and or computer at risk are overwhelming. I have read how there is nothing we can do and how we should stop using LMDE, I have read how the Mint team should stop "tricking people" into installing LMDE. then I see people who really like LMDE for various reasons. but the one thing that I did not see (I did not read all pages of this thread) when told that the Mint team is small and doing the best they can. of all of the people that complained about the slow progress of LMDE not one offered to help in any way. If you have ever used Mint Ubuntu and know what Mint can do for that OS. think of what Mint can do for an OS that is already stable, and If you did not research you should. Debian is THE oldest running distro alive today. It is also known for it's stability. all of this comes from how it does it's updates. So as for me, Mint team, thank you all for your dedication, time, and hard work. just let me know if there is anything I can do to help.


Agree except need to correct you, actually Slack ware is the oldest. ;-)

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
Shuttle SX58
Intel i7 Gulftown Hex Core
G.Skill 16Gig 1333
OCS Vertex 2 SSD
Segate SATA II
Palit GeForce GTS 450
LMKDE 14 64Bit

Where Thought Crime is Committed
Reject the Herd
User avatar
marcus0263
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:40 am
Location: Seattle

Linux Mint is funded by ads and donations.
 
PreviousNext

Return to Linux Mint Debian Latest

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest