Too hard for me

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Too hard for me

Postby d1684 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:21 pm

I just tried to install LMDE on a 150 gig HD. Why the Mint people thought people would enjoy partioning their own hard drives from scratch is beyond me. I've just discovered I only have 6 gigs of free space, and 134 gigs are MIA. This is as hard as Slackwear. Forget it. Plus the first thing I notice when I log on is that updates are available. Ummm...so what happened to the whole "rolling update" thing ? I thought I wouldn't ever have to mess with updating again, and it would do it automatically. Plus it says I have broken packages - - even though I haven't unistalled anything and this is a fresh installation. Whatever. Life's hard enough w/o all this.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby nunol on Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:32 pm

Partition is not that hard and it's fixable, you can use Gparted from the LiveDVD or USB pen to grow the current partitions to the desired size.

LMDE is rolling, that means you are always updating software, every week, sometimes every day in a continuous way, that is way is called rolling. You only install once but update many.

Broken packages? That can be fixed. You are using a 6 months ISO, but once installed it should be less problematic.

You should fix this install or delay the LMDE install until the next ISO arrives but if you feel this way about rolling distros maybe you should use Mint 11 or stay with LTS releases.

Need help to fix your partitions?
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby lmintnewb on Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:47 pm

See I checked in on da forums just in time !!!

Here I come to save the day !!!! Well not really more like being sarcastic. Lmde is not the Mint you want to try for your 1st time round Linux n Linux Mint. Go with one of the main ubuntu based Mint releases n stay away from the debian based ones until you have a clue what you're doing.

They warn people that lmde n similar are not for people new to Mint and/or linux. All the stuff you typed above reeks of someone who's completely lost on the topic of lmde. While I get the frustration the problems you're having isn't the software ... it's you. Any new OS is not going to be magical, read your mind ... Be exactly and everything you want n expected AND do it all for you without missing a beat. You should've done your homework ahead of time.

Not blunder into something, choose one of the worst Mint releases you poss could have. For someone new to LM. Then blame things on the software ( that ya got for free ). When o course things went wrong. Linux Mint ubuntu ... Mint 9 or 10 are super newb/user friendly. Debian based Mint as mentioned isn't.

So just some free advice to go along with the great freeware Mint HQ generously offers. Take a deep breath, then another. Once you're calm and collected go download Mint 9 or 10 n try things again. Ya know you wanna try linux or you wouldn't have come this far. Ya just made an easy beginners mistake that can happen to anyone ... Don't be a quitter ... Give one of the ubuntu based Mint versions a try. You'll be a much happier person for it.

Once you get some experience with a new OS n linux under your belt. You will more than likely be able to go back to lmde and have no problems getting it to run well for ya.
Last edited by lmintnewb on Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby ThistleWeb on Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:50 pm

Partitioning isn't that hard after you understand some basics of what it's asking you to do. The Debian installer is more manual in that you have to use GParted to create partitions which you can then use in the installer. It should be easier but it's not all that difficult. The Ubuntu installer is by far the easiest Linux installer I've seen. It's ideal for beginners who don't know or want to know about stuff like filesystems and partitions. It might be an idea to use that for now until you get a bit more confident on that type of stuff before switching to the Debian side.

Ubuntu was created as "Debian made easy" after all, and Mint was created as "Ubuntu done right".

Regardless of whether it's a cyclic or rolling distro, you always have updates. When you first install a distro, you'll have updates that were released from the time the iso was created until the day you install. Sometimes this can be a lot of updates. The difference between a rolling and cyclic distro is that a cyclic disto has a cut off point, there is a fixed date maybe 18mnths in the future where the support is withdrawn, so you have to make plans to reinstall a newer version or upgrade to a newer version. The LTS distros are cyclic, but instead of 18mnths, it's 3yrs. A rolling distro means you just keep it updated every few days and you'll never have to reinstall. There is no end of the line cutoff date.

A few other distros have the rolling approach like Arch and OpenSUSE (through Tumbleweed). The Debian Testing repo approach is a decent balance for rolling stability, the downside is that some packages can be kinda old.

The only way you're gonna get a rolling distro without that initial splurge of updates post install, is a netinstall. Debian and Arch both offer this option where the packages are not on the CD, but get pulled from the internet at the time of install. Given your level of experience with the Debian installer in terms of partitioning, I'd say you're not ready for either of those approaches yet.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby d1684 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:52 pm

nunol wrote:Partition is not that hard and it's fixable, you can use Gparted from the LiveDVD or USB pen to grow the current partitions to the desired size.

LMDE is rolling, that means you are always updating software, every week, sometimes every day in a continuous way, that is way is called rolling. You only install once but update many.

Broken packages? That can be fixed. You are using a 6 months ISO, but once installed it should be less problematic.

You should fix this install or delay the LMDE install until the next ISO arrives but if you feel this way about rolling distros maybe you should use Mint 11 or stay with LTS releases.

Need help to fix your partitions?

Thanks. Yes, and thank you for not trying to pump your own ego up by bashing me. :D
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby owend on Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:56 pm

I've been trying LMDE Gnome; I installed in May after a 974Mb download, and immediately had a 335Mb update, then on the same day another 126Mb update; 1,435Mb just to get going! Problems getting GoogleEarth to run, eventually solved. Now I need another 335Mb update! 1,770Mb downloads in a month, and that's not including some programs I installed (GoogleEarth etc). I live in a rural area, with 1 - 1.1Mb broadband, most downloads run at about 100-120kbps, so that's a LONG time online servicing the OS, without getting any work done! Also, 1.7Gb is over two complete CD-based downloads, so I could install the next generation Mint every two weeks and still save broadband!

I echo d1684, I don't think this is a practical proposition, which is a shame. I've been Mint for years, now on Mint 10, so I'll stick with that.

I have to say though that installation was painless, and most areas of LMDE are good, it's the download requirements which are the dealbreaker.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby nunol on Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:06 pm

LMDE is not for everyone, you need a lot of downloads and some fixes when the upgrades go wrong but it is a learning experience. It's a trade off, that's why there is both Mint Debian based and Ubuntu based.

Now, to fix your partition scheme. Can you post a Gparted picture of your partition or run and paste the output:
Code: Select all
sudo fdisk -l


Knowing how to use Gparted is easy, here you have a video tutorial and a webpage tutorial:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb54TsYI6UA
http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/gparted.html
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby lmintnewb on Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:14 pm

canna help it, tried furiously ... But just isn't n me. Reading this kinda stuff. Gives me the mental image of a person hitting themselves in the foot with a hammer. Screaming darn that hurts ! WTH is wrong with this hammer !!!???


:D

(note) I am in no way affiliated with the people who produce, create or release Linux Mint software. Opinions expressed in the post above are solely my own n Mint HQ does not approve them nor have anything to do with the snarky post I've typed here. Funny as hades, n totally true. But Mint did not endorse this message in any way, shape or form.

Thank you Im lmintnewb and I approved this message.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby d1684 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:28 pm

nunol wrote:LMDE is not for everyone, you need a lot of downloads and some fixes when the upgrades go wrong but it is a learning experience. It's a trade off, that's why there is both Mint Debian based and Ubuntu based.

Now, to fix your partition scheme. Can you post a Gparted picture of your partition or run and paste the output:
Code: Select all
sudo fdisk -l


Knowing how to use Gparted is easy, here you have a video tutorial and a webpage tutorial:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb54TsYI6UA
http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/gparted.html


Thanks nunol! I ran Gparted with the Live CD and resized it, rebooted it, and it worked! I guess I'm not a Hillbilly after all.

Thanks again for be help instead of a troll. :D
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby lmintnewb on Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:39 pm

congrats ... see what 2 mins of reading can help someone do. :lol: Amazing how that works. Will wonders never cease, lol.

Ok done ... sheesh.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby nunol on Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:44 pm

No problem. Eventually LMDE will have a upgrade problem, check the LMDE upgrade thread before upgrading: viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby d1684 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:11 pm

nunol wrote:No problem. Eventually LMDE will have a upgrade problem, check the LMDE upgrade thread before upgrading: viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502

I will thanks a million.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby d1684 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:20 pm

ThistleWeb wrote:Partitioning isn't that hard after you understand some basics of what it's asking you to do.


Naw, it's a lot harder. LOL! Linux Mint Gnome is easy, you can just drag a slider to select the size for a dual boot. Trying to install this reminded of the time I installed Slackwear on a computer a couple of years ago.

Ubuntu was created as "Debian made easy" after all, and Mint was created as "Ubuntu done right".

ThistleWeb wrote:Regardless of whether it's a cyclic or rolling distro, you always have updates. When you first install a distro, you'll have updates that were released from the time the iso was created until the day you install. Sometimes this can be a lot of updates. The difference between a rolling and cyclic distro is that a cyclic disto has a cut off point, there is a fixed date maybe 18mnths in the future where the support is withdrawn, so you have to make plans to reinstall a newer version or upgrade to a newer version. The LTS distros are cyclic, but instead of 18mnths, it's 3yrs. A rolling distro means you just keep it updated every few days and you'll never have to reinstall. There is no end of the line cutoff date.

A few other distros have the rolling approach like Arch and OpenSUSE (through Tumbleweed). The Debian Testing repo approach is a decent balance for rolling stability, the downside is that some packages can be kinda old.

The only way you're gonna get a rolling distro without that initial splurge of updates post install, is a netinstall. Debian and Arch both offer this option where the packages are not on the CD, but get pulled from the internet at the time of install. Given your level of experience with the Debian installer in terms of partitioning, I'd say you're not ready for either of those approaches yet.


K, thanks for the info. You're very helpful.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby d1684 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:23 pm

owend wrote:I echo d1684, I don't think this is a practical proposition, which is a shame. I've been Mint for years, now on Mint 10, so I'll stick with that.


Good I'm not alone. I had to break down the updates before they would D/L and install. 985 updates? Geeze. It's up to 524 now. lol Oh well, at least it's free andf legal.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby TBABill on Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:22 pm

lmintnewb wrote:congrats ... see what 2 mins of reading can help someone do. :lol: Amazing how that works. Will wonders never cease, lol.

Ok done ... sheesh.

Lmint please go easy on new users even if you disagree with their approach. The OP is obviously new to Linux but still seeking help. Making them feel worse serves no useful purpose and makes the forum appear unwelcoming. I love a good poke at fun but not at a user I do not know.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby LifeInTheGrey on Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:53 am

There is, of course, the "safe" option of installing LMDE Stable.

Simply convert your repos from "testing" to "stable" and add a couple other useful repos (stable-updates and squeeze-backports) before you update after install. The only "breakage" I had was xchat, which was easily fixable, and I only had 314 updates. Personally, I updated, then switched the main repo back to testing to install the .38-2 kernel (not the backport, because it doesnt have the same nvidia support) as well as cairo-dock, but then switched back to stable and stuck with it. I got all the recent Minty updates (love the new backdrop, btw), and on the .38 kernel it runs ROCK solid. On my main machine, LMDE stable used the same amount of memory running chrome, xbmc, vmware (defragmenting a machine, not running a vm), and pidgin that LM 11 used at idle.

The resource I used to convert the repos to stable is found here: http://rivenathos.wordpress.com/2011/03/11/lmde-x2-stable-gnome/#comment-55

Because of the lack of breakages and higher level of stability, it is the user-friendly alternative to standard LMDE without going to the main edition.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby nunol on Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:13 am

The kernel 2.6.38 sure is fast.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby AlbertP on Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:29 am

Yes, but some people are having power problems with it. My laptop does not consume much more power, but I'm having another problem with it: after 1 hour of running, the CPU fan turns completely off and the processor starts overheating (EDIT: My CPU fan problems are solved after a BIOS flash). I've downgraded to 2.6.37 and not had that problem anymore.
Last edited by AlbertP on Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby LifeInTheGrey on Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:23 am

AlbertP wrote:Yes, but some people are having power problems with it. My laptop does not consume much more power, but I'm having another problem with it: after 1 hour of running, the CPU fan turns completely off and the processor starts overheating. I've downgraded to 2.6.37 and not had that problem anymore.


The .37 was a good kernel as well. And frankly, I noticed even the stock .32-5 kernel was fast after doing the updates (and contained the nvidia support I needed), and that kernel doesn't have the .34-to-.35 and .37-to-.38 power regressions in it, so that would be a solid choice for newbs looking for simplicity and stability. I was just detailing my LMDE stable setup.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby lmintnewb on Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:24 am

In this case ... nope.

From the lmde download page. Among so many others, if someone takes 10mins to research what they're doing. Would think someone brand new to an OS would take 10 mins. I've certainly invested 100's if not a couple thousand hours by now learning diff nix related stuff. Go figure ... haven't had any probs I wasn't able to sort out by myself either. For that matter even ran into many probs to begin with. BECUZ ? I did my research beforehand. :D

Cons:

Although it's using Romeo for unstable packages, LMDE continuously changes as it receives updates and new software. Compared to a frozen version of Linux Mint which changes very little once it's publicly released, it's not as stable. Things are likely to break more often but fixes can also come quicker. For this reason, LMDE requires a deeper knowledge and experience with Linux, dpkg and APT.

Debian is a less user-friendly/desktop-ready base than Ubuntu. Expect some rough edges.


Oh well ... just caught me wrong at the moment. Understand someone being frustrated when things aren't going smooth. But the bad attitude, blaming it on the software etc. When it's obvious they did it to themselves ... grates on my nerves. Often I'd just skip over that kinda junk. That time felt like pointing out the obvious. ie: If you're new to something and do something wrong .. BLAME YOURSELF n deal with it by being more thoughtful in the future eh ? Don't shoot yourself in the foot and then complain ya have a hole in your foot, lol.

Would still advise ( though completely his choice ) choose one of the Mint releases that are more rock solid n user ( including nix newb ) friendly. aka. Mint 9 ,10 or try the new one 11, shrugs. The OP's probs with lmde are just beginning surely ... Can see mucho borkage in his future. But that's his choice to make.
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