Too hard for me

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Re: Too hard for me

Postby d1684 on Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:51 pm

LifeInTheGrey wrote:There is, of course, the "safe" option of installing LMDE Stable.

Simply convert your repos from "testing" to "stable" and add a couple other useful repos (stable-updates and squeeze-backports) before you update after install. The only "breakage" I had was xchat, which was easily fixable, and I only had 314 updates. Personally, I updated, then switched the main repo back to testing to install the .38-2 kernel (not the backport, because it doesnt have the same nvidia support) as well as cairo-dock, but then switched back to stable and stuck with it. I got all the recent Minty updates (love the new backdrop, btw), and on the .38 kernel it runs ROCK solid. On my main machine, LMDE stable used the same amount of memory running chrome, xbmc, vmware (defragmenting a machine, not running a vm), and pidgin that LM 11 used at idle.

The resource I used to convert the repos to stable is found here: http://rivenathos.wordpress.com/2011/03/11/lmde-x2-stable-gnome/#comment-55

Because of the lack of breakages and higher level of stability, it is the user-friendly alternative to standard LMDE without going to the main edition.


That's sounds like a good idea. I will try that. So far I can't see a big improvement with LMDE over the other Mints. It seems more buggy, so I don't see what the big deal is. (I also put the troll on the ignore list. I find it's best if you just ignore them.)
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby samriggs on Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:44 pm

Hey D1684
Don't give up, I'm coming in after a ton of great advice and don't know if mine will help or hinder, but hopefully it can help you out abit more.
Here is another link form the tutorials about gparting
http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/178
This one has the full install with images (including the gpartion) I don't know if you want to part your hard drive like he did but I found it a pretty good tutorial myslef.
http://helpsite.org/linux-mint-debian-edition/ (hopefully I am not repeating any here).
I started off with the easier installs (when I was with ubuntu) it did everything for me until I got a feel for things.
Slowly I made my way to LMDE and am still learing but it doesn't take long.
another thing that might help is in the breakages topic (a ton of good stuff in there)
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502&start=0
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502&start=0
zero has a good thing about updating the first time (through the terminal instead)
using sudo apt-get update then sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
This is the two lines I usually use for all my updates about once a week or once every few weeks unless my little green check mark turns into a blue shield on me.
Once installed though LMDE runs pretty smooth, I love it and have it installed on 5 computers now in my family (all of them are on it including my 72 year mom :lol: )
They love it too and love the idea of no more reinstalls.
Hopefully this can help you out or someone else with these links.
Sam
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby LifeInTheGrey on Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:57 am

d1684 wrote:That's sounds like a good idea. I will try that. So far I can't see a big improvement with LMDE over the other Mints. It seems more buggy, so I don't see what the big deal is. (I also put the troll on the ignore list. I find it's best if you just ignore them.)


I have created a detailed tutorial about how to set it up as I have, located here: http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/497

Honestly, the difference I notice is the footprint it has on system resources, especially while multitasking. On my HTPC, which has 8 gb of ram, I see cold boot ram usage at idle of under 300mb ... half what I had running LM 11 (no less than three days ago). Additionally, no matter how many programs I've opened (and I've opened a TON at once, had media streaming, music playing, video calls, the whole shebang), I've never been able to have more than 2gb of ram used up (without running a VM, of course ... but even my 6gb 64-bit Win7 VM seems to run smoother). More than just the ram usage is the CPU usage; since installing LMDE Stable on my laptop, netbook, and 2 HTPCs, I have not heard the fan on them. Once. Long story short ... its MUCH lighter on system resources, which translates into faster application running, smoother media and effects, and greater ease while multitasking.

I mean lets be honest, LM 11 is pretty damn good ... I was running it on my HTPCs since it was released. But there's a reason I took the time to switch all of my machines to LMDE, and I don't plan on looking back as long as Clem and the team keep improving it. I mean this is what Ubuntu started out as, right? A user-friendly, more accessible open-source community's take on the Debian system. With the way things are going at Canonical, I believe that baton has been passed.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby d1684 on Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:08 pm

Even though it's up and running, it still seems kinda buggy (even though that gets Imalinuxtroll's underoos in a bunch when I say that :lol: ). I can't really see how it's better than LM 11. I guess if your the type that always like tweaking things and tinkering with it, it's good then. Frankly, I just like stuff to run. GMTP crashes all the time, and VSO doesn't run as good (w/ Crossover Linux) as it did under LM 11.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby AlbertP on Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:27 am

Then a Debian Testing-based disto is perhaps not what you need. If you still like a rolling release, you could try PCLinuxOS instead of Mint.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby owend on Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:35 am

Following with interest! LifeInTheGray: my Mint 10 64-bit is running now in 284Mb of RAM (out of 3GB) with Firefox open and this forum, so LMDE doesn't appear espcially resource-light. Also, Mint 10 is, for me, rock solid, I've never had a freeze/meltdown, although in fairness so is LMDE as I've tested it so far. My point is that LMDE doesn't seem to offer many advantages over stock Mint 10, and the enormous update sizes suggest it would be more broadband-friendly to download and reinstall an updated Mint every year or so.

Which would make me do some housekeeping at the same time!

BTW, I haven't moved from Mint 10 yet - Mint 11 seems from others' reviews to be slightly improved but not enough to warrant a reinstall. Probably wait for Mint 12!
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby AlbertP on Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:02 am

Mint 11 uses much less memory when running a Live CD, is my experience, but when running a normal install I don't see any big difference.
The Live CD is again able to run on 440MB systems, and it installs without using swap on 512MB.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby LifeInTheGrey on Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:42 am

owend wrote:Following with interest! LifeInTheGray: my Mint 10 64-bit is running now in 284Mb of RAM (out of 3GB) with Firefox open and this forum, so LMDE doesn't appear espcially resource-light. Also, Mint 10 is, for me, rock solid, I've never had a freeze/meltdown, although in fairness so is LMDE as I've tested it so far. My point is that LMDE doesn't seem to offer many advantages over stock Mint 10, and the enormous update sizes suggest it would be more broadband-friendly to download and reinstall an updated Mint every year or so.

Which would make me do some housekeeping at the same time!

BTW, I haven't moved from Mint 10 yet - Mint 11 seems from others' reviews to be slightly improved but not enough to warrant a reinstall. Probably wait for Mint 12!


Hey man, more power to ya ... Mint 10 was (and still is) a VERY solid system. Mint 11 is too, but has some upstream bugs, due to its reliance on Ubuntu. LMDE is still very young as a distro, and in terms of being on the same level in terms of refined finished product like 10/11, it still has a way to go. And in regards to the update sizes, I use the Stable Debian repos vs the traditional testing, so I have about 300 updates on a fresh install vs the 1000+; while I chose the Stable repos for a different reason than just the number of updates, I can agree that is quite cumbersome. Either way I think you're solid, I just consider LMDE to be the future once it catches up to the main edition in terms of the finishing touches.

Oh, btw ... I'm writing this response from my netbook (1gb ram), and with cairo-dock with opengl, full compiz effects, chrome (for this response), pidgin, and banshee importing my media folder as I type, I'm using 219mb. I don't want to turn this into a pissing contest, but I had LM 10 on this netbook until I wiped and installed LMDE yesterday, and back then I had about 220-230mb idling. I mean its not this drastic difference (like comparing either to Windows), but in my experience LMDE is just a touch lighter. :)
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby calden on Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:18 am

I completely agree with you “LifeInTheGrey”. Though I don't quite have the neutered hardware that you’re using, I'm still low on the totem pole in terms of raw power. I have a Thinkpad x61 Tablet; Dual 1.66GHZ, 4GB RAM, 64GB HD SSD. I too found Mint 10 and 11 a bit on the sluggish side. Plus after the train wreck that is Ubuntu 11.04 I have decided to stay clear from Ubuntu for awhile. As I already use Debian 6 on my Desktop I was really excited to find Mint offering a Debian based version. Just one complaint, can the powers that be please periodically update the installer CD. I just recently installed Mint Debian and I have to say the updates are a little overwhelming.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby LifeInTheGrey on Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:45 pm

calden wrote:I completely agree with you “LifeInTheGrey”. Though I don't quite have the neutered hardware that you’re using, I'm still low on the totem pole in terms of raw power. I have a Thinkpad x61 Tablet; Dual 1.66GHZ, 4GB RAM, 64GB HD SSD. I too found Mint 10 and 11 a bit on the sluggish side. Plus after the train wreck that is Ubuntu 11.04 I have decided to stay clear from Ubuntu for awhile. As I already use Debian 6 on my Desktop I was really excited to find Mint offering a Debian based version. Just one complaint, can the powers that be please periodically update the installer CD. I just recently installed Mint Debian and I have to say the updates are a little overwhelming.


According to their post on June stats, we should be seeing an LMDE ISO respin later this month, which is a welcome update.

I have actually transitioned my systems all from tracking Stable to Sid (what can I say, go big or go home), but its still rock solid, stable, and lightweight. Haha and I don't merely use LMDE on my "neutered" netbook ... I also have 2 htpc's and a laptop that runs them both. My main htpc runs an AMD quadcore 3.2GHz, 8GB ram with an nVidia 880g card, and other than the extra effort necessary for updating nVidia cards (my other htpc has ATi, and its much easier to set up being part of the kernel now) LMDE runs beautifully on all of them. Actually, the system is so efficient, it feels almost wasteful to have 8GB of ram ... unless I'm running a VM (or a couple), I've never used more than 2GB, no matter how many programs I'm running/streaming at the same time. And trust me ... I've tried.

It just amazes me on each machine for different reasons ... my powerhouse machine runs so efficiently I can skype my wife's family while running VMs of XP, OSX, and Bodhi Linux (just to try the enlightenment desktop) and not even touch swap. On my puny little netbook, it runs snappier than my buddy's 6gb quadcore running Windows 7, which gives endless bragging rights. Either way, its just ... beautiful. :)
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby owend on Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:02 am

After a lot of dithering and trying some other distros for elimination over the last couple of weeks (Fedora 15 (Gnome 3, didn't like) and Debian itself from a coverdisk - no downloads! - and Kubuntu 11.04 (but I don't really like KDE) I bit the bullet and decided to go for LMDE in spite of my doubts.

I installed upgrades yesterday (560Mb worth!!!). Lot of "mend broken packages first" messages which made no sense since I haven't been using it enough to break anything; selecting about 100Mb of updates at a time installed everything, so I think my 3Gb RAM may not be enough for the large size of upgrade - tip!

BUT, I now have only a text screen and can't log into anything graphical. Reading the forums in this (Mint 10) distro, there are warnings (check viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502#p390162) that the latest upgrades delete all sorts of packages, requiring a lengthy, complex and presumably CLI-based deletion and re-install exercise to get things working again.

I think my LMDE experiment has to end, it's just too much work. I may give Debian a try, but I'll probably stay with Mint 10 for now.

Sorry, LMDE, a good idea, but not yet.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby AlbertP on Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:13 am

The broken packages error is a bug in the updater; it's fixed in Mint 11 but LMDE still contains quite some Mint 10 components.
It's not your RAM. Updates are saved to disk while downloading and not stored in the RAM memory. I have been able to download many updates at once on a 1024 MB machine; it works when using anything else than MintUpdate (Synaptic, apt or apt-get, aptitude, ...).
Last edited by AlbertP on Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby owend on Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:31 am

Thanks, AlbertP, I didn't know about the bug, I did think it unlikely that 3Gb couldn't hold 560Mb, but I couldn't think of anything else :oops: . Although breaking the list of updates into smaller lumps did work, so perhaps the bug is related to the size of the download? (rather than the size of RAM).

However, LMDE stays broke, so I'll leave it until it's a bit more mature. I CAN fix it (I think), I'm an intermediate skill level, but I do want a useable system rather than have to spend ages sorting it out.

Good luck all with LMDE, I'll keep an eye on the forum!
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby victorsk on Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:55 am

To OP:

I am not sure you are required to make any updates. I've installed LMDE last week and done 0 updates since then and I don't see any reason why I should because LMDE works great out-of-the-box. I'd even argue that LMDE works better than Mint's other releases because it's more responsive and fast.

That updates icon you see in the icon tray that indicates available updates, just right click and quit it and it's not like LMDE won't work if you don't run the updates. I haven't, and it works great.

If ain't broke don't fix it :)

Victor.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby zerozero on Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:01 am

Victor,
i'm terrible sorry to say this but that is just wrong, anyway is your system and you do with it what you want!! But advise others that, please don't!
see this thread viewtopic.php?f=47&t=72575 and the issues someone had from doing exactly what you are saying
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby victorsk on Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:38 am

zerozero wrote:Victor,
i'm terrible sorry to say this but that is just wrong, anyway is your system and you do with it what you want!! But advise others that, please don't!
see this thread viewtopic.php?f=47&t=72575 and the issues someone had from doing exactly what you are saying


Hi,

So does this mean that it is necessary to run an upgrade of your system when you install LMDE? Maybe I am missing something but I thought it was an optional thing to do and it should be done unless you want to keep the apps as recent as possible.

When I want to install something which requires a later version of packages it depends on I try to upgrade those dependencies instead of executing generic upgrade of the entire system. Am I missing something here?

As far as OP's message, unless its an absolute requirement to run LMDE update when you install it then it would be better for them not to use it at all, don't you think?

Please let me know, I am also interested to know about this.

Thanks,
Victor.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby owend on Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:18 am

You should always update, Victor, as zerozero says, but be careful, the latest set of updates may damage your setup (check out viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502#p390162, as I posted earlier).

It's one of my concerns about LMDE too, the sheer volume of updates in the couple of months since I started dabbling (2+Gb, more than three whole distro downloads so far!)
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby aljoriz on Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:29 am

LMDE is a great way to learn more stuff about linux. Just install it and hang on the forums if you have problems. The community, n00b or experts, will try to help.

That is how I got by with LMDE.
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby zerozero on Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:48 am

victor,
it all depends on the apps you are talking about, some of them may not have dependants, so it's easy to install or update just those, others may have just a couple, and you update those as well, job done;
but the issue starts when you want to install or update something more complex, dependant on a new toolchain, on gcc 4.6 (and the initial install has 4.4 i think), dependant on perl5.12, and here you find out that you have to start updating the whole system or keep it frozen as it was

owend,
atm the following pkgs
libgl1-mesa-dri
libgl1-mesa-glx
xserver-xorg-core

will break LMDE if you are using nvidia/ati drivers;
i know that a fresh install is atm painful (about 1000 updates right after install is not very user-friendly), but a new iso should be released soon, and if you want to use the old ones look at this thread
viewtopic.php?f=141&t=76556
and use the latest repo (second option)
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Re: Too hard for me

Postby DrHu on Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:19 pm

d1684 wrote:I just tried to install LMDE on a 150 gig HD. Why the Mint people thought people would enjoy partioning their own hard drives from scratch is beyond me.

Why the Mint people thought people would enjoy partioning their own hard drives ..
It's the difference between buying something ready to go (a pre-installed OS) and setting up and configuring your own OS system

If you have ever had to reinstall or install a windows or Apple OS, you would have been presented with the same options, how to partition your system's hard drive(s)
Last edited by DrHu on Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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