Xserver 1.11.1 and hardware acceleration

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Xserver 1.11.1 and hardware acceleration

Postby HTD on Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:34 pm

Anyone succeeded with this? Possible or not?

And yes, am quite angry. What's the point in using Debian, if you have to hold packages from older versions, or stay with software rendering. Ubuntu is no better. No support for Radeons in latest 11.10. I'm fed up. I've already bought Windows 7. Come on, years go by, it's year 2011, openGL hardware accelerated rendering is available on most phones. Is Linux really 10 years behind normal operating systems? If a package like xserver doesn't support hardware acceleration - it should be marked as BROKEN, not testing or experimental. Why don't get back to text console? Working text-mode linux can run in browser, on virtual machine written in JavaScript. Of course it will be slow on real Linux, because the browser will use software rendering for text.
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Re: Xserver 1.11.1 and hardware acceleration

Postby xenopeek on Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:21 pm

I'm not sure from your post if you have a specific problem that you want help with, or if you are ranting in general against X11. Display problems are always a pain to have :( I'm not sure this fully applies to the problem you have, but unlike Intel, both AMD/ATI and Nvidia keep their drivers proprietary and closed source (and keep their hardware interface documents locked under NDAs), thus preventing other developers from improving issues with the drivers or incorporating new features. You are correct in seeing that this is slowing down innovation (that is what closed source does). Don't give money to manufacturers that don't support Linux fully, as this upholds this situation.

Anyway, Wayland is the up and coming replacement for X11, and will use OpenGL ES for rendering. It looks likely that major distros will start moving to Wayland in 2012.
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Re: Xserver 1.11.1 and hardware acceleration

Postby DrHu on Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:36 pm

HTD wrote:Is Linux really 10 years behind normal operating systems? If a package like xserver doesn't support hardware acceleration - it should be marked as BROKEN..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison ... _and_Linux
    Wayland consists of a protocol (largely complete) and some demonstration code. Currently, the Wayland code uses OpenGL ES, rather than the more traditional (in desktops) OpenGL.[25] "Longer term we'll need an answer for apps that need full [OpenGL], but the problem is that libGL pulls in GLX and all the X dependencies
..Is Linux really 10 years behind normal operating systems
I don't think Linux in general is in any way behind other OSs'
--every OS has some deficiencies, it is just a matter of how much the users notice them or accept them

That wayland package is using Open GL ES (Embedded Systems), such as on-board graphics, like Intel..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_processing_unit
--If I use a more standard product line, such as a separate PCI graphics card, where I might select a card with more RAM or faster GPU, then I wouldn't be concerned about Xserver processing, other than simply a way-station on the way to my faster graphic card
    I mean on a desktop, not a notebook or a notepad system, atom or otherwise..

There have been accelerated Xservers available for the longest time..
http://www.xig.com/Pages/ProductLine.html
--but like any OSs' available, not all devices can be supported: they (developers) make their choices based on their business model..
Last edited by DrHu on Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xserver 1.11.1 and hardware acceleration

Postby HTD on Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:38 pm

Vincent Vermeulen wrote:I'm not sure from your post if you have a specific problem that you want help with, or if you are ranting in general against X11. ...

Both are true, though I don't blame X11 as much as Debian mantainers - they pass too many, no offense, but I think - broken - packages to testing branch. I see some good changes in X11 and I hope following releases of those drivers will support new X.

The real question is the most important - has anyone done it? Maybe there is a way to install fglrx with X 1.11? And even more important question, if so, how? :)
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Re: Xserver 1.11.1 and hardware acceleration

Postby HTD on Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:44 pm

DrHu wrote:I don't think Linux in general is in any way behind other OSs'
--every OS has some deficiencies, it is just a matter of how much the users notice them or accept them


You're right. Windows has very weak filesystem support. Both local and remote.
Linux has it's problem with display drivers, Windows has its problems with filesystems and well,
with display drivers too - DirectWrite output looks horrible.
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Re: Xserver 1.11.1 and hardware acceleration

Postby mrjoeyman on Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:03 am

Vincent Vermeulen wrote: but unlike Intel, both AMD/ATI and Nvidia keep their drivers proprietary and closed source (and keep their hardware interface documents locked under NDAs), thus preventing other developers from improving issues with the drivers or incorporating new features.


I thought it was the other way around? If this is true, why can't my Intel Hd Graphics on my laptop work correctly? It comes up with the error:


Code: Select all
failed to get i915 symbols, graphics turbo disabled


viewtopic.php?f=191&t=83437
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1594981

It seems that a new kernel has to be built, or an existing one patched, for this error to be fixed. Can you guys find out if the next kernel update for LMDE will include this patch?
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Re: Xserver 1.11.1 and hardware acceleration

Postby xenopeek on Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:40 am

@mrjoeyman, please create a new topic for your problem. New questions deserve new threads :wink:
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Re: Xserver 1.11.1 and hardware acceleration

Postby mrjoeyman on Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:52 am

Vincent Vermeulen wrote:@mrjoeyman, please create a new topic for your problem. New questions deserve new threads :wink:



I included the link to the topic I previously created about this problem. Sadly there are no answers yet :( Sorry for any misunderstanding.
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Re: Xserver 1.11.1 and hardware acceleration

Postby sumski on Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:52 pm

xserver (by itself) does support hardware acceleretion. Your problem is in either/both kernel or/and mesa.
Is there anything interesting in the logs?
Regarding fglrx - it doesn't support xserver 1.11 (if i'm not mistaken, every other, open and closed, does).
I'm also not very optimistic when will that happen, cause the next buntu is coming out in 6 months (only buntu, suse and rh are OFFICIALY supported)
PS.
i'm somewhat sarkastic, cause AMD has managed to publish a driver they have been working on 3 or more months, and that driver is completely broken for KDE users
Acer Extensa 5630G - Core2Duo T5800 2GHz , 4 GB ram, Ati Mobility 3650.
OpenSUSE 12.1 KDE 4.7.3
Debian Sid KDE 4.7.1/2
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Re: Xserver 1.11.1 and hardware acceleration

Postby HTD on Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:43 pm

I reinstalled everything (didn't try fglrx again) and now open Radeon driver works just perfectly. It's not as fast as fglrx, but it's fast enough for Gnome Shell to run at 60FPS all the time. Gnome Shell never worked with fglrx driver anyway. In my opinion - fglrx is totally lame. It can handle Radeon, but it can't handle Linux right. First side effect - broken frame buffer. Second - doesn't support KDE 4.6 (very slow), doesn't support Unity in Ubuntu (random crashes, missing Compiz features), doesn't support Gnome Shell.

New Radeon driver (in xserver-xorg-core 1.11.1) works way better than 1.10.x versions - finally - no artifacts! There is a random junk on gdm3 start, but no more artifacts since xserver is started.
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