[SOLVED] New updates: package updating w/o dependencies

[dclement]

Hello,

I had a look at the updates today, and mintupdate was updated (replaced) to mintupdate-debian, which now wants to update 1334 packages. I understand this is UP5. That takes some caution, I'm in no hurry to apply this to my production PC, even if I had already updated the Nvidia drivers with smxi before.

Now here is the one thing I don't understand: to avoid the Mint-x theme bug, I had locked the version for these packages: libgtk-3-0, libgtk-3-bin and libgtk-3-common. That meant keeping, e.g., Libreoffice 3.4 and Gimp 2.6, which had them as dependencies.

Now I'm puzzled because
1) Mint Update wants to update them to LO 3.5 and Gimp 2.8 without the libgtk-3 packages being updated.
2) If I go and check the Debian packages web pages, neither gimp nor libreoffice-gnome now reports any libgtk-3-* dependency.

So that would work in the end? I'll try on a "draft" install, but I'd like to understand!

[Monsta]

I think you can just unlock these ones and let the updates flow. The upgrade to UP5 should replace mint-x-theme with mint-themes. This new package contains the latest versions of Mint-X and Mint-Z which are compatible with GTK+ 3.4.
Please note that this will also remove Mint-X-Metal (just in case you're using it).

[dclement]

Thank you for your advice.

So you are that confident? Well, it comforts me, I'll do this update in a few days (or weeks), on my draft HD first.

BTW, my current theme is Mint-X (not metal). I remember that I had not quite been convinced by the fix for Mint-* themes announced in the thread that I had quoted (some oddities about icons sizes and backgrounds). It'll be a good occasion to try and see if the UP5 fixes everything.

Regards, Daniel

[Monsta]

So you are that confident?

Yes, I've updated one system so far (and it's in a virtual machine) and everything looks nice with the new mint-themes package.
Well, except for the fonts, but that's another problem.

[dclement]

Hello, here is a report of tentative update on my draft system.

After downloading and installing all the packages, the X server just would not start upon reboot. I had to run the smxi script in order to retrieve my graphics. This was perhaps, precisely, the Nvidia driver had been installed with this script (instead of Synaptic). Though, I wonder what would be the result on my main system (a laptop which is frequently docked, ant then uses an external monitor). Perhaps a backup of Xorg.conf would be a good precaution.

After the graphics episode, I was pleased to observe that the Mint themes were indeed fixed, at least with respect to colors and icon sizes. But they seem a bit, say, cosmetically challenged (no more nice shadow effect around the menus ?)

Now for the best parts: all the programs that I tested were properly updated. This is amazing given the level of cross-dependencies that had to be resolved, (programs wanting to uninstall others...). In particular, the whole LaTeX distribution (used by LyX, my favorite scientific editor) has taken a huge step from TeXlive 2009 to TeXlive 2012 and resumed work at once without a glitch. This is over 100 interconnected packages. I repeat it, it is amazing.

I'm sure to install the upgrade on my main system eventually, but I'd rather wait until I have some more free time ahead.

Cheers - Daniel

[dclement]

Here is further report, I have to correct slightly what I wrote:

But they seem a bit, say, cosmetically challenged (no more nice shadow effect around the menus ?)

This is no longer true. I played with the theme settings, then returned them back to their previous condition, and the menus were then as nice as before.

the X server just would not start upon reboot.

I'm convinced that at some point I chose "install new version" for some file, instead of "keep file"...

Two small remarks however:
* The "click on tap" action on the touchpad was lost, and I had to restore it as explained here;
* The location of the Debian background has changed, and you have to explicitly point to it if you're not end up with a Maya background.

This is very little indeed. I say it again, I'm impressed.

[Monsta]

Glad to hear there weren't many problems with this upgrade.

One little remark:

After downloading and installing all the packages, the X server just would not start upon reboot. I had to run the smxi script in order to retrieve my graphics. This was perhaps, precisely, the Nvidia driver had been installed with this script (instead of Synaptic).

It's just the way it goes. Once you start to use smxi (or just sgfxi which is the part of this "suite" but can be installed separately), you'll have to run it every time your kernel gets upgraded (and it's better to do it before rebooting). In LMDE, that usually means "on every Update Pack release"...

And it's not that hard, actually:

1. Wait until the next Update Pack is released.
2. Fully update your system using either mintUpdate or apt-get dist-upgrade.
3. Switch to one of the consoles (press e.g. Ctrl-Alt-F1) and login as root.
4. Stop your display manager: run either service <your dm> stop or /etc/init.d/<your dm> stop. The second method is usually needed when the first breaks. Actually, sgfxi is able to stop your DM automatically, so this step is currently needed only if you're using lightdm (see the link).
5. Run sgfxi without parameters. It should automatically choose the latest stable driver, download it, install it, and build the needed modules for your current kernel. Oh, and it does a backup copy of your xorg.conf just in case.
6. Now the only thing left is to do the same for your new kernel that got installed with the new Update Pack. There are two ways to do it and they are described here. I usually just run sgfxi -! 40 to avoid typing the long kernel version string.
   And just in case there are any ATI users reading this: sorry guys, this feature is for nVidia cards only.
7. Reboot. This is the only reboot needed in this process.

[dclement]

Thanks Monsta for taking the time to explain this.

Once you start to use smxi (or just sgfxi which is the part of this "suite" but can be installed separately), you'll have to run it every time your kernel gets upgraded

Well I had trusted smxi/sxfxi (and I still do) for the first install of the Nvidia drivers. I thought it was the easy way to avoid any problem. But once this is done, perhaps I should consider a Synaptic-oriented install?

(and it's better to do it before rebooting)

Yeah, I've noticed

Stop your display manager: run either service <your dm> stop or /etc/init.d/<your dm> stop.

What if I told you I don't know what DM I'm using? If lightdm is the default for LMDE/Xfce, then it's it, but I relied on smxi for stopping the DM.
Now, just to make sure I get everything right:

5. Run sgfxi without parameters. [...]
6. Now the only thing left is to do the same for your new kernel that got installed with the new Update Pack. [...] I usually just run sgfxi -! 40 to avoid typing the long kernel version string.

Really both these steps, or is it just step 5. in case of an update pack and step 6. in case of a "simple" kernel update?

[Monsta]

Well I had trusted smxi/sxfxi (and I still do) for the first install of the Nvidia drivers. I thought it was the easy way to avoid any problem. But once this is done, perhaps I should consider a Synaptic-oriented install?

This is a little complicated.
If you first installed these drivers by just running sgfxi without any parameters, it downloaded them directly from nvidia website and installed them while not telling anything to the package management system. If you want to switch to the "distro packaged drivers" (as the author puts it), you can use -d switch:

If you want to switch between the distro nvidia/fglrx drivers and the straight installs from ATI/Nvidia, you can easily do that by using: sgfxi -d
-d forces distro packaged driver method instead of downloaded binaries. You can switch back and forth easily, in case one works and another doesn't.

I haven't tested that though. If it really installs what's in the repository, then after that you're free to continue using Synaptic and update your drivers the usual Debian way. Or, in LMDE case, wait for another Update Pack to bring the updated drivers to you.
Using Synaptic straight away without that switching will probably break something as it doesn't know about the drivers sgfxi installed directly from nvidia website.

And here's one more thing to consider. Update Packs don't get any backports. If something doesn't work, usually you just wait for the next Update Pack and hope for the fix - or go cherry-picking packages from Testing because the fix may already be there.
The current nVidia drivers (302.17) seem to cause problems for some users, so they go looking for any possible solutions. The solution is either to cherry-pick the newer drivers from Testing (it may work at the moment: 304.xx branch seems to cause fewer problems than 302.xx) or to use sgfxi to download the latest stable drivers (they happen to be also of 304.xx branch) from nvidia website. Or don't download at all: if your current driver is able to work with the new kernel and the new Xorg, it's alright to tell sgfxi to just build the needed modules and use the old driver with the new kernel.

What if I told you I don't know what DM I'm using? If lightdm is the default for LMDE/Xfce, then it's it, but I relied on smxi for stopping the DM.

You can find it out by looking into /etc/X11/default-display-manager. Your DM is probably either gdm3 or mdm. LightDM is not the default, it's not even installed in LMDE unless you do it manually.

Really both these steps, or is it just step 5. in case of an update pack and step 6. in case of a "simple" kernel update?

It doesn't matter because it's a kernel update anyway so you need to build new kernel modules.
Both steps are needed if you want sgfxi to download the latest stable driver. Step 6 is needed to build the modules for the new kernel, and step 5 is a prerequisite.
If you don't want to download anything and plan to keep your current driver, you can replace these two steps with one simple step which is also described here:

Code: Select all

# 190.53 is installed using sgfxi, and you want to install it to
# every other kernel as well. As long as sgfxi still supports that driver
# it will work.
sgfxi -! 40 -o 190.53

[dclement]

Thanks for these explanations, it's all very clear now.

If you want to switch to the "distro packaged drivers" (as the author puts it), you can use -d switch

I did not use the -d switch -- didn't know about it -- but no problem, I'm pleased with sgfxi. I think it installs a newer driver than Synaptic: I have 304.43, and I don't think I chose a beta driver. But maybe I'm comparing with the pre-UP5 repos.

You can find it out by looking into /etc/X11/default-display-manager. Your DM is probably either gdm3 or mdm.

Then it's mdm, and I know now how to stop it myself. I feel like I'm making progresses

If you don't want to download anything and plan to keep your current driver, you can replace these two steps with one simple step which is also described here:

Another thing I learned (and I'll use). This possibility of not downloading (again) is valuable. We Nvidia users are privileged! I really need to read the sgfxi manual before I use it again...

[Monsta]

I think it installs a newer driver than Synaptic: I have 304.43, and I don't think I chose a beta driver. But maybe I'm comparing with the pre-UP5 repos.

Well, UPs usually have older drivers because UPs are basically Debian Testing snapshots that get an additional testing from the Mint team. When another UP is finally released, you may find out that, say, Nvidia already has a new stable (not beta) version of their driver.

I guess you can now mark this thread as [solved].

[dclement]

More than solved indeed! Thanks again.