LMDE BREAKAGES - (Tracking SID!) -{CLOSED}

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Re: LMDE BREAKAGES - (Tracking SID!) - May 5th

Postby Brian49 on Sun May 20, 2012 5:32 am

Linux-sound-base isn't needed for sound to work, as long as you are happy to have ALSA as your only option. It is needed if you want to be able to choose between ALSA and OSS as the default sound base.
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Re: LMDE BREAKAGES - (Tracking SID!) - May 5th

Postby dcihon on Sun May 20, 2012 8:04 am

Craig,

Here is inxi -Sr
root@dcihon-linux-mint-debian:~# inxi -Sr
System: Host dcihon-linux-mint-debian Kernel 3.2.0-2-amd64 x86_64 (64 bit)
Desktop Xfce 4.8.3 Distro Linux Mint Xfce Edition
Repos: Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://packages.linuxmint.com/ debian main upstream import backport romeo
deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org sid main non-free
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ sid main contrib non-free
deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org wheezy main non-free

Also apt-cache policy did work.
I saw someone else use apt policy. Maybe they were just saying to use that as an example not the actual command.

Is the last entry from above using testing?
What should my sources be. I have changed it a few times based on others listed here.
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Re: LMDE BREAKAGES - (Tracking SID!) - May 5th

Postby TheGreatSudoku on Sun May 20, 2012 10:03 am

I've noticed for quite some time now upgrading packages related to Gnome3 is going to break Cinnamon. Is there a thread on any of the forums tracking the progress of the Clem and other Mint Developers in making a new version of Cinnamon that will be compatible with these updates?

It's interesting how much I care, considering I use KDE. I like the ability to hop into Cinnamon at a whim, though that doesn't happen often. Speaks volumes of my respect for the direction of Linux Mint, refusing to break Cinnamon simply because I like the ideas behind it better than I like those of the default gnome-shell.

I'm also wondering if there is a way to make upgrading easier. I have apt-listbugs installed and I find myself often having to back out of an upgrade after a warning of a breakage comes through, often causing me to close synaptic all together then re-open it to attempt the upgrades again minus the affected package. If there a way either via command line or GUI where I can essentially do a dist-upgrade, omitting packages that are flagged by apt-listbugs as well as omitting packages whose upgrade would cause the removal of other packages I have installed on the system?
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Re: LMDE BREAKAGES - (Tracking SID!) - May 5th

Postby mockturtl on Sun May 20, 2012 10:25 am

dcihon wrote:Also apt-cache policy did work.
I saw someone else use apt policy. Maybe they were just saying to use that as an example not the actual command.
You should have a python file named apt in /usr/local/bin. It's just a wrapper for apt-get, aptitude, apt-cache, and dpkg.

edit: clarity
Last edited by mockturtl on Sun May 20, 2012 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LMDE BREAKAGES - (Tracking SID!) - May 5th

Postby dcihon on Sun May 20, 2012 10:29 am

Mock,
I don't have an /usr/local/bin/apt folder.
I have /usr/local/bin but no apt folder.
Thanks
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Re: LMDE BREAKAGES - (Tracking SID!) - May 5th

Postby mockturtl on Sun May 20, 2012 10:51 am

TheGreatSudoku wrote:essentially do a dist-upgrade ... omitting packages whose upgrade would cause the removal of other packages I have installed on the system?
That's exactly what aptitude safe-upgrade does. 8)

apt-listbugs won't notify you when bugs are resolved, so you wouldn't want it automatically holding packages. If you don't mind a 10 day delay, you get that extra layer of stability with the testing repos.
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Re: LMDE BREAKAGES - (Tracking SID!) - May 5th

Postby mockturtl on Sun May 20, 2012 10:54 am

dcihon wrote:Mock,
I don't have an /usr/local/bin/apt folder.
I have /usr/local/bin but no apt folder.
Thanks
Dan
AFAIK it ships with Mint. You can just download the file I linked and add execute permission (chmod +x).
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Re: LMDE BREAKAGES - (Tracking SID!) - May 5th

Postby squeezy on Sun May 20, 2012 11:28 am

TheGreatSudoku wrote:If there a way either via command line or GUI where I can essentially do a dist-upgrade, omitting packages that are flagged by apt-listbugs as well as omitting packages whose upgrade would cause the removal of other packages I have installed on the system?


Code: Select all
apt-get upgrade
only upgrades packages that won't cause installation or removal of other packages. It doesn't hold things based on bug reports though.
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Re: LMDE BREAKAGES - (Tracking SID!) - May 5th

Postby TheGreatSudoku on Sun May 20, 2012 11:41 am

mockturtl wrote:
TheGreatSudoku wrote:essentially do a dist-upgrade ... omitting packages whose upgrade would cause the removal of other packages I have installed on the system?
That's exactly what aptitude safe-upgrade does. 8)

apt-listbugs won't notify you when bugs are resolved, so you wouldn't want it automatically holding packages. If you don't mind a 10 day delay, you get that extra layer of stability with the testing repos.


actually when I ran aptitude safe-upgrade it was going to install Gnome 3 packages that apt/synaptic say will remove/break Cinnamon, so I'm a bit distrusting of how reliable it's output is.

When bugs are resolved, they no longer appear on apt-listbugs which only catches a bug when it's severity is grave, severe, or critical. I DO want apt-listbugs holding packages, that's the reason I installed it in the first place. I'd like to be able to run something like a "mindful-upgrade", take advantage of the listbugs db during upgrades. Apt-listbugs is nice, but when it catches a package that is broken, I then have to manually upgrade each package individually.

And the packages in testing have always seemed a bit stale for my tastes.
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Re: LMDE BREAKAGES - (Tracking SID!) - May 5th

Postby zerozero on Sun May 20, 2012 4:28 pm

Dan,
this might be completely unrelated with all the issues you are having, but i can't help noticing that since long your outputs are as root all the time (even to perform tasks that in no way need root permissions, or at most could/should be used with sudo)
- apt policy [packagename] works as normal user, apparently it doesn't as rot;
- inxi -[whatever parameter] doesn't need root permissions, in fact the data is sometimes truncated used that way;
- in a more general note, playing Master-Of-The-Universe has a price and i don't know but you seem to have recurrent issues with the installs.

TheGreatSudoku,
Cinnamon is broken in sid/testing, the clutter/cogl updates killed it; you can try to pin (lots of ..) gtk3.4 pkgs Lippy goes on 67 pkgs pinned or you can try mocks builds (already 3.4 compatible) or ... wait for UP5.
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Re: LMDE BREAKAGES - (Tracking SID!) - May 20th

Postby GeneC on Sun May 20, 2012 5:10 pm

Finally got the font fix that GregE suggested working (with the help of squeezy) :)
viewtopic.php?f=198&t=70230&start=1040#p580484

Works perfectly.

My actual method (was not real clear with the steps in the Debian post)
viewtopic.php?f=201&t=102505&p=581985#p581985
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Re: LMDE BREAKAGES - (Tracking SID!) - May 20th

Postby GregE on Sun May 20, 2012 7:56 pm

I think there is some confusion about the apt command. This is why Dan is getting advice that just does not work.

My understanding is that "apt" is not a normal command in a Debian system. The apt package that is installed is a wrapper that supplies apt-get etc, but not apt itself as a stand alone executable.

Most of you have an executable apt command because you use git to compile Cinnamon. "apt build" just links to dpkg-packagebuild etc. So to get apt as a stand alone executable you have to manually create it using the link supplied and indeed written by Mock.
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Re: LMDE BREAKAGES - (Tracking SID!) - May 20th

Postby mockturtl on Sun May 20, 2012 8:54 pm

GregE wrote:I think there is some confusion about the apt command. This is why Dan is getting advice that just does not work.

My understanding is that "apt" is not a normal command in a Debian system. The apt package that is installed is a wrapper that supplies apt-get etc, but not apt itself as a stand alone executable.

Most of you have an executable apt command because you use git to compile Cinnamon. "apt build" just links to dpkg-packagebuild etc. So to get apt as a stand alone executable you have to manually create it using the link supplied and indeed written by Mock.
I didn't write that script, but I don't know what package it came from. AFAIK it's not vanilla debian, but "minty." I haven't spent any time distro-hopping, but I think system calls in python are a sort of a Clem signature. :mrgreen:

maya RC, liveDVD:
Code: Select all
$ which apt
/usr/local/bin/apt
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Re: LMDE BREAKAGES - (Tracking SID!) - May 20th

Postby zerozero on Sun May 20, 2012 9:19 pm

the oldest reference to the apt command (as in linuxmint apt wrapper, not the debian APT) is as far as i can search Daryna release notes >> round oct/nov 2007
there, in the announcement post, we can see Clem giving some apt commands that only work with the mint python wrapper:
  • apt purge ubiquity; apt clean; apt install ubiquity
  • apt remove beryl beryl-core beryl[..]
  • apt update
  • apt upgrade
  • apt dist-upgrade
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Re: LMDE BREAKAGES - (Tracking SID!) - May 20th

Postby GregE on Sun May 20, 2012 11:58 pm

mockturtl wrote:
GregE wrote:I think there is some confusion about the apt command. This is why Dan is getting advice that just does not work.

My understanding is that "apt" is not a normal command in a Debian system. The apt package that is installed is a wrapper that supplies apt-get etc, but not apt itself as a stand alone executable.

Most of you have an executable apt command because you use git to compile Cinnamon. "apt build" just links to dpkg-packagebuild etc. So to get apt as a stand alone executable you have to manually create it using the link supplied and indeed written by Mock.
I didn't write that script, but I don't know what package it came from. AFAIK it's not vanilla debian, but "minty." I haven't spent any time distro-hopping, but I think system calls in python are a sort of a Clem signature. :mrgreen:

maya RC, liveDVD:
Code: Select all
$ which apt
/usr/local/bin/apt


I tracked it down by checking the packages on my daughter's Linuxmint 12. The apt script is part of the mint-system package, so it is probably a Clem creation. That is why it is not necessarily on people's systems or on any standard Debian or Ubuntu system. The further you go into using Sid the less Minty your system can become.

So, Dan just install mint-system and the supplied commands will start working.

:)
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Re: LMDE BREAKAGES - (Tracking SID!) - May 20th

Postby wayne128 on Mon May 21, 2012 12:12 am

just curious on apt thing, so I checked, all my Debian based distros and Debian partitions follow Debian standard.
So I cannot use apt policy etc. but I have always used apt-cache policy..
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Re: LMDE BREAKAGES - (Tracking SID!) - May 5th

Postby dcihon on Mon May 21, 2012 2:43 pm

zerozero wrote:Dan,
this might be completely unrelated with all the issues you are having, but i can't help noticing that since long your outputs are as root all the time (even to perform tasks that in no way need root permissions, or at most could/should be used with sudo)
- apt policy [packagename] works as normal user, apparently it doesn't as rot;
- inxi -[whatever parameter] doesn't need root permissions, in fact the data is sometimes truncated used that way;
- in a more general note, playing Master-Of-The-Universe has a price and i don't know but you seem to have recurrent issues with the installs.


Zero,
First thanks for all the careful insight as to the source of my problems.
I think most of my problems comes from the fact that I sometimes use the "ready, fire, aim" approach to how I do things.
I figure I can learn things by breaking them and then figuring out how to fix things. Most of the time I end up needing your guys help.
I use root just being lazy and not having to type my root password each time I want to do something. I will start using sudo instead if that is a better way to run the commands.
apt is working now. I didn't mean to cause such a big discussion about it although following that discussion was a good learning process.
I think my problem with having to do recurrent installs is what I described above. I just need to be more careful or if not get the clonezilla working for me.
It is not too painful to start over with /home on its own partition. Just renaming /home and pointing fstab to the correct one is a few steps.

One of the things I like about Linux mint is all the different ways you can have it, (Normal Mint, Debian version, Different Window Manager/Desktop Engines.) Starting out I wanted to try them all. That has gotten me in a little trouble.
I think from now on I will stick to my Debian XFCE and if I want to mess around with cinnamon I will just load that up in Virtual box and play with it there.
Thanks again.
Now on to more fun.
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Re: LMDE BREAKAGES - (Tracking SID!) - May 20th

Postby GeneC on Mon May 21, 2012 2:54 pm

Dan

Took me the longest time to try Clonezilla. I take that back. I tried it, and got so confused I put it aside for months. :lol:
I'd say its my most valuable tool for running SID. I would not do some upgrades without cloning first. I have a lot of tweaks in this LMDE/SID partition and it would take hours to reset everything the way I want.
If I mess up now, its a 10 minute (probably less) to get right back where I was.

Take the time to learn Clonzeilla.
The first time you use it may take you a while to get trhough it, as there is lots of options that come up, and you will want to take care, and read them all. 2nd time you use it, it will be a 'snap'. 3rd time you will breeze right through it, and wonder why it took you so long to learn it. :lol:
You can do some crazy things (like me :roll: ), screw thing up, and if you can't find a fix. RESTORE CLONE!

http://clonezilla.org/show-live-doc-con ... disk_image
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Re: LMDE BREAKAGES - (Tracking SID!) - May 20th

Postby dcihon on Mon May 21, 2012 3:46 pm

Gene,
What are you backing up to?
An external drive?
A second partition?
?
I tried a network drive and it didn't like that.
Thanks
Dan
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Re: LMDE BREAKAGES - (Tracking SID!) - May 20th

Postby GeneC on Mon May 21, 2012 4:20 pm

I use an external hard drive, mostly. I also have a spare partition on my main hard drive for a 'quickie' :P (Wont do me much good there if my hard drive crashes, though).
Usually back up once a week (Sunday mornings are a ritual). But if something looks fishy, i'll do it more often. Never has a partition failed to restore. Its really pretty easy and foolproof.
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