<SOLVED> A stable LMDE?

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<SOLVED> A stable LMDE?

Postby Pythzor on Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:18 pm

Vincent Vermeulen wrote:
See the LMDE FAQ, "Q2- can i use PPA's in LMDE?", here: viewtopic.php?f=197&t=91405&p=525990


LifeInTheGrey's LMDE Squeeze Setup (Complete) http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/497 looks to be right up my alley, so to speak. I've just replaced my 32 bit LMDE with the 64 bit version (after appreciatively reading responses in viewtopic.php?f=90&t=92019).

But I note that LifeInTheGrey warns, that LMDE Squeeze Setup (Complete) *NOTE - This applies to the 201012 and 201101 ISOs ONLY ... this would not be practical for any ISOs following these releases. Yellow Fiber downloads provided below.*

So is there an updated version somewhere, or should I just proceed anyway?

As always, the many responses and suggestions I've already been blessed with in these forums is much appreciated.

Thank you.
Last edited by Pythzor on Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A stable LMDE?

Postby Monsta on Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:09 am

It's simple: those two ISOs have been released before Debian 6.0 came out. All newer ISOs contain newer packages, so trying to "upgrade" them to Squeeze just doesn't make sense.

The complete LMDE ISO list is here: http://www.linuxmint.com/release.php?id=14
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Re: A stable LMDE?

Postby GeneC on Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:31 am

Hi Pythzor

This might be of interest.
viewtopic.php?f=201&t=91724
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Re: A stable LMDE?

Postby dagon on Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:00 pm

Hi!

I've been thinking of going LMDE stable too. I've just run the 201012 64-bit version from disc and it's really promising.

For reference purposes here is a tutorial on making your own LMDE from the community section that probably could be worked into a stable version without too much sweat: http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/197
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Re: A stable LMDE?

Postby Pythzor on Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:55 am

Monsta wrote:It's simple: those two ISOs have been released before Debian 6.0 came out. All newer ISOs contain newer packages, so trying to "upgrade" them to Squeeze just doesn't make sense.

The complete LMDE ISO list is here: http://www.linuxmint.com/release.php?id=14


Thank you for your advice. But I'm still sort of hazy, here. Does that complete LMDE iso list include a stable+backports install instead of testing? Or do I need to alter an LMDE so that it would be pointed toward stable instead of testing? Could you direct me to a step-by-step tutorial sort of like LifeInTheGrey's LMDE Squeeze Setup (Complete) http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/497, but updated for the 201109 iso? The emphasis would be on "stable," not "newer."

zerozero wrote on Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:08 am, at viewtopic.php?f=201&t=91724, " . . . if you follow LifeInTheGrey's howto i believe that you don't need any kind of "guru like know-how" to have a successful LMDE stable+backports install . . .."

But LifeInTheGrey warned, that LMDE Squeeze Setup (Complete) *NOTE - This applies to the 201012 and 201101 ISOs ONLY .... So which is it? Should I ignore LifeInTheGrey's note and use his tutorial anyway or something else?
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Re: A stable LMDE?

Postby Pythzor on Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:05 am

So right now, I have a fresh LMDE 64 bit install that hasn't been updated. I'm thinking that I should wait until I have a /etc/sources.list appropriate for stable+backports before updating. What does the forum think?

Any help is always much appreciated. Thank you.
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Re: A stable LMDE?

Postby LifeInTheGrey on Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:18 am

Figured I'd chime in.

LMDE based on Squeeze can theoretically be done with the 201109 ISOs, however doing so would be rather odd. Basically, the 201109 ISOs involve a lot of packages (and I mean a LOT) that are from that time's snapshot of Debian TESTING, which had much more recent packages than Squeeze ever would. Therefore, if you use the 201109 ISOs and follow my guide ... you wont need to update anything, for a long time, because everything you just installed is actually a more recent version than the one in the Squeeze repos (except for specific apps, like Firefox). Just to be clear, its called Stable because thats the stable release, so Squeeze = Stable.

As a side note, I have modified the tutorial to include links to Yellow Fiber networks rather than MU, since MU has passed (RIP). If you have any questions or want some advice about the setup, PM me, I'm happy to help.
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Re: A stable LMDE?

Postby GeneC on Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:04 am

Hey 'LifeInThe Grey'

Thanks for the tut. I followed it and have been running LMDE-Stable-DebianBackports for a while now.
Nice to have Gnome 2.3 back again.

I (we) :D do have a qestion.
Is it safe to keep the Mint repo enabled?
See :arrow: viewtopic.php?f=201&t=91724#p528120
:arrow: viewtopic.php?f=201&t=91724#p528289

I edited my apt-pinning
etc/apt/preferences

Code: Select all
Package: *
Pin: release o=linuxmint
Pin-Priority: 700

Package: *
Pin: origin packages.linuxmint.com
Pin-Priority: 700

Package: *
Pin: release o=Debian
Pin-Priority: 700


My sources list
Code: Select all
deb http://packages.linuxmint.com/ debian main upstream import
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free
deb http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main contrib non-free
deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org squeeze main non-free
deb http://backports.debian.org/debian-backports squeeze-backports main contrib non-free


I have had no problems with the Mint repo so far, but there have been questions about its safety.
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Re: A stable LMDE?

Postby LifeInTheGrey on Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:32 pm

As far as what I can tell, LMDS should be safe right now. However, with the impending migration to GNOME 3, that may or may not be true in the near future, I simply can't know for sure. Looking at the mint repo (http://packages.linuxmint.com/list.php?release=Debian) you should be able to tell which apps wont need to updating, but from what I can tell the only potential items are the plymouth theme and mintwifi. I think the biggest potential issue is that, once GNOME 2 is no longer used (like after update 4), then the GNOME 2 things we all love like the MintMenu will be removed from the repo. I'd say, start a grassroots campaign to keep them so that LMDS can stick around haha.
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Re: A stable LMDE?

Postby GeneC on Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:44 pm

LITG

Thanks .
I have been keeping my eye on the Mint repo. Only upgrades have been for Firefox and Thunderbird (4.0-9.0). No problems there.
I'll keep Mint repo enabled for now. Just to see what happens. If there are any problems, I will post. :wink:
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Re: A stable LMDE?

Postby vrkalak on Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:59 pm

Since, LMDE has a basic Debian'Testing' core ... all that is needed is to change and use the Debian Squeeze 'stable' sources.list

I have a version of LMDE set to 'stable+backports' with the Fluxbox WM.

Squeeze is super stable ... and the 'backports' repro keeps all the important stuffs updated.
The only thing that doesn't get updated is the Mint stuff/tools/apps.

Code: Select all
##################
## Debian Stable  ##
##################
#Stable
#deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free
#Stable Sources
#deb-src http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free

#Security Updates  http://www.debian.org/security/
#deb http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main contrib non-free

# Debian Stable Backports
# For information visit - http://backports.debian.org/
# Secure apt: apt-get install debian-backports-keyring
#deb http://backports.debian.org/debian-backports squeeze-backports main contrib non-free

# LMDE -  Linux Mint Debian http://www.linuxmint.com/blog/?p=1527
# List of packages:  http://packages.linuxmint.com/list.php?release=Debian
# Introducing Update Packs in Linux Mint Debian - http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1781
# Secure APT - apt-get install linuxmint-keyring
# Default LMDE repositories as of Update Pack 3
# deb http://packages.linuxmint.com/ debian main upstream import
# deb http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest testing main contrib non-free
# deb http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest/security testing/updates main contrib non-free
# deb http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest/multimedia testing main non-free


I am enjoying using a 'stable' Debian OS (LMDE) on my main 'for work' PC.

** Don't forget to consult the Giant Debian Sources.List for most every Debian Repro known > http://sites.google.com/site/mydebiansourceslist/
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Re: A stable LMDE?

Postby GeneC on Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:17 pm

vrkalak

Thanks for the feedback. :wink:
Looks like Mint repo is not necessary at all then.
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Re: A stable LMDE?

Postby KBD47 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:21 pm

I really like Debian Stable. It is a shame that such a newbie perfect distro is so horrible to install. There are like 12 steps in the debian installer, and trying to find a debian live cd is no easy task either for a newbie. Mint Debian has a far better installer and can be used live, but I would not want newbies to have to deal with changing repos. Even Debian Mint iso right now needs to have the repos changed to Latest after installing, along with dealing with a bug in update related to gstreamer. At the very least Mint Debian needs new iso's to fix the repos and bugs. In LMDX the default theme creates a right-click bug for accessing files. It's just not newbie ready, and vanilla Debian Stable is too much for newbies. The sad thing is that none of these things should be too hard to fix to enable them to be more newbie friendly.
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Re: A stable LMDE?

Postby zerozero on Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:08 pm

Pythzor,
basically what you want to do with this lmde+stable project is to pick an lmde iso released before the 6/fev/2011 (when squeeze was released) and right before updating the system change the sources.list so they point to squeeze (and no longer testing) and add the squeeze-backports (to get some apps updates) LifeInTheGrey's howto is a great tool to achieve that.

doing that with any iso released after 6/fev/2011 it's (like was already said here) a bit odd: you are picking a newer iso, setting the repos to older apps versions eventually nothing will happen- nor good nor bad - but it's more or less as if you just disable the sources.list all together, what you would end up with would be a testing system frozen in time

following the "proper" way you will have a squeeze setup, getting some (very few it's true) bug fixes and getting security updates.

KBD, proper debian doesn't really care about newbie-friendness, lmde tries to close the gap in some areas (still doesn't do the all job :lol: )
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Re: A stable LMDE?

Postby KBD47 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:57 pm

zerozero, yes I've noticed that about Debian. Question, if you used apt upgrade with LMDE iso and sources pointed to Stable, would that change all the apps, remove things, likely bork your system, or do nothing?
Thanks.
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Re: A stable LMDE?

Postby KBD47 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:02 pm

Two more quick questions: is there a Mint Debian Xfce iso pre-Feb. 2011 someplace? Do you know if it has grub 2 or grub legacy?
Thanks.
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Re: A stable LMDE?

Postby zerozero on Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:31 pm

KBD,
about the first question:
- you can use dist-upgrade with a setup like that (the chance of a breakage in squeeze is minimal), but of course if you use upgrade no harm will come to your system (like would happen with a system pointed to testing or sid);
- you will see a first big update (you are using a dec/2010 or jan/2011 iso) but after that the amount of weekly updates is fairly low (i'm - as i type - finishing setting up a lmde+stable repos, but others with more experience say that you get a couple updates a week);
- as far as i can tell (the system here is almost as i want it to be) nothing is broken and it's amazing to have gnome 2.32 with compiz in an intel lappy with 135mib at startup;

as for the second question:
- the first xfce iso was apr/2011;
- all lmde editions use grub2 (since set/2010)
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Re: A stable LMDE?

Postby KBD47 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:39 pm

Thanks zerozero!
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Re: A stable LMDE?

Postby MALsPa on Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:55 pm

KBD47 wrote:I really like Debian Stable. It is a shame that such a newbie perfect distro is so horrible to install. There are like 12 steps in the debian installer, and trying to find a debian live cd is no easy task either for a newbie.


Yeah. Well, the first time I installed Debian Stable, it was a lot easier than I thought it was gonna be, but I was no longer that much of a newbie at that point, having done a bunch of installations of easier Debian-based distros like Mepis, Ubuntu, and Mint.

A nice Debian live CD would really help. I know there's the Debian Live project. Haven't tried it yet, but from what I've read it isn't a newbie-friendly type of thing.

Once you've been through a few Linux installations, installing Debian Stable isn't so bad, especially if you keep good notes. And then I don't think you have to re-install, although I like to start out with a fresh installation whenever the new Stable comes out.
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Re: A stable LMDE?

Postby LifeInTheGrey on Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:04 am

MALsPa wrote:
KBD47 wrote:I really like Debian Stable. It is a shame that such a newbie perfect distro is so horrible to install. There are like 12 steps in the debian installer, and trying to find a debian live cd is no easy task either for a newbie.


Yeah. Well, the first time I installed Debian Stable, it was a lot easier than I thought it was gonna be, but I was no longer that much of a newbie at that point, having done a bunch of installations of easier Debian-based distros like Mepis, Ubuntu, and Mint.

A nice Debian live CD would really help. I know there's the Debian Live project. Haven't tried it yet, but from what I've read it isn't a newbie-friendly type of thing.

Once you've been through a few Linux installations, installing Debian Stable isn't so bad, especially if you keep good notes. And then I don't think you have to re-install, although I like to start out with a fresh installation whenever the new Stable comes out.


I've given a shot to the Debian Live setup (mainly because I'm trying to find a way to create my own distro that will build with Debian Testing), and its pretty nuts, I couldn't figure it out. I'm probably in the minority of people that actually really like the Debian installer, just because of how tweakable it is. The ability to install a targeted system, rather than just a generic bloat version, is really nice.

But you said, notes are king. In truth, I created that LMDS tutorial because I figured I had all these notes about how to get it rolling, I might as well share it.
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