Best way to run the Latest - Testing vs Unstable

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Best way to run the Latest - Testing vs Unstable

Postby Flesh on Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:03 pm

Like most people I want the Latest software, which normally means running unstable, which is not a problem for me, but here is my issue; I want the latest in Blender and Multimedia, and Programming tools, since this is where I do most of my work; I am installing LMDE with MATE x64 with the latest download at this time, I also run the Liquorix kernel via smxi script, and nvidia driver via sgfxi script, so my options are to run from Testing, and update only the Apps I need via another means, which unlike Ubuntu, I have no ppa repos, which I really like, so I have to go to that web site and run the latest install; which I would want to write a script to do this, so its only done once, then I can run the script to update those apps; or I can change to unstable, but this may not contain the latest version I want either, so I still have to do this, but maybe not for as many Apps; so my question is, what is the best way to do this?

The type of answers will vary; but if you have a script for updating apps, or another way of doing this, let me know; also I am confused about the latest sources.list; it now uses deb http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest testing main contrib non-free
for testing, but if I change testing to unstable, it doesn't work; my last source.list for unstable looked like this:
Code: Select all
deb http://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/linuxmint-packages/ debian import main
deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free
deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org unstable main non-free


I did not do the upgrade yet; it seems to want to remove cinnamon, which is fine by me, I gave up on Gnome; but I'd like to get the best way to do this before I jump into this again.

Currently testing looks like this:
Code: Select all
deb http://packages.linuxmint.com/ debian main upstream import
deb http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest testing main contrib non-free
deb http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest/security testing/updates main contrib non-free
deb http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest/multimedia testing main non-free


What is the code for unstable for the latest LMDE MATE x64?
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Re: Best way to run the Latest - Testing vs Unstable

Postby wayne128 on Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:37 pm

I want the latest in Blender

Just checked on Debian Sid repos.
Blender version is 2.63a-1. Does that meet your expectation?
There is another experimental repos that usually has even latest. But i think the original website must have the latest of all.
Code: Select all
apt-cache policy blender
blender:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 2.63a-1




Regarding running Testing or unstable, it is just a personal choice.
Whether it is best or not is still personal and depending on other factors.

There are some people who run LMDE tracking SID, this is the thread that is most relavant
viewtopic.php?f=198&t=70230

One important thing is, once you run SID, you probably would not get support from official Mint because LMDE is supposed to track with its default sets of repos. But those people running LMDE tracking SID might give some help.
Another point is, you should not mix ubuntu ppa in Debian system as this is a good way to break the system.


As for the repos, I always refer to craigevil's giant sources list for reference on Debian distros.
http://sites.google.com/site/mydebiansourceslist/

Here I just copy out the Debian unstable portion below:


####################
## Debian Unstable ##
####################
# Debian sid FAQ - http://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable#FAQ
# There is no security, volatile or backports repo for unstable.
# Unstable Sid
#deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free
# Unstable Sources
#deb-src http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free

of course two other relevant ones are
##################
## Experimental ##
##################
# Debian experimental http://wiki.debian.org/DebianExperimental
#deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ experimental main contrib non-free

and multimedia
#################
## MULTIMEDIA ##
#################
# Debian Multimedia Packages - http://deb-multimedia.org/
# DMM mirror list http://deb-multimedia.org/debian-m
# Note new updated repo line and keyring
# Secure apt: apt-get install deb-multimedia-keyring
# Debian Stable
# deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org squeeze main non-free
# deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org squeeze-backports main
# Debian Testing
# deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org testing main non-free
# Debian Unstable/sid
# deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org sid main non-free
# deb-src http://www.deb-multimedia.org sid main

# Experimental Staging
# deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org experimental main
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Re: Best way to run the Latest - Testing vs Unstable

Postby craigevil on Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:48 pm

Follow the topic about sid;
viewtopic.php?f=198&t=70230

Upstream MATE repo
deb http://packages.mate-desktop.org/repo/debian/ wheezy main

lmde repo:
deb http://packages.linuxmint.com/ debian main import upstream

Multimedia:
deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org/ sid main non-free

Debian sid:
deb http://ftp-mirror.internap.com/pub/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp-mirror.internap.com/pub/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free

Feel free to use a different Debian Mirror, I suggest installing and running netselect-apt to pick the fastest mirror
# Official Debian mirrors http://www.debian.org/mirror/list
# Also at http://ftp.debian.org/debian/README.mirrors.txt

#Debian Experimental
deb http://ftp-mirror.internap.com/pub/debian/ experimental main contrib non-free

every now and then something happens to be in experimental.

BTW Debian sid is much more 'stable' than even Debian testing, and way more 'stable' than Ubuntu.

Blender 2.63a is latest release from the Blender Foundation.

$ apt-cache policy blender
blender:
Installed: (none)
Candidate: 2.63a-1
Version table:
2.63a-1 0
500 http://ftp-mirror.internap.com/pub/debian/ unstable/main i386 Packages

So come on join the dark side... we have cookies...and shiny packages..that just might blow up your system.
Debian Sid KDE4.8.4 Kernel 3.4 Thinkpad R40 CPU Pentium M 1.3MHz RAM 2GB ATI Mobility 7500
Debian - "If you can't apt-get something, it isn't useful or doesn't exist"
Giant Debian sources.list | Debian upgrade script smxi | sysinfo script inxi
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Re: Best way to run the Latest - Testing vs Unstable

Postby Flesh on Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:54 pm

Thanks for the reply, yes, Blender 2.63 is what I'm looking for, I use bmesh and ngons, so its a starting point.

I did find this link, it seems to me its using the Debian repos, as opposed to the LMDE repose, which was one concern I have, since I'm using MATE, I don't want to break it, and I do not know if its in the Debian repos, nor did I look; but I'd like to stick with the LMDE repos if possible; do you know of a source.list that uses LMDE repos for unstable?

Update: I posted this before the last post showed up; which has a repos for Mate; I think most of my confusion is debian vs lmde repos.
Last edited by Flesh on Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Best way to run the Latest - Testing vs Unstable

Postby zerozero on Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:57 pm

Flesh, may i suggest that you start here >> viewtopic.php?f=197&t=91405
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Re: Best way to run the Latest - Testing vs Unstable

Postby Flesh on Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:18 pm

zerozero wrote:Flesh, may i suggest that you start here >> viewtopic.php?f=197&t=91405


Good link, I missed this one; it said the main difference between the LMDE and Debian repos, is how often and when updates get added to it; so that LMDE testing is more stable, so my guess is that when it comes to sid or unstable, those come directly from Debian, since LMDE only runs from testing, and they wanted it to be more stable, which is why there are the two repos.
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Re: Best way to run the Latest - Testing vs Unstable

Postby Flesh on Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:11 pm

This is what they say and what I noticed:
1. Testing: this is the Normal Repository for LMDE
2. Incoming: this is the Upstream Repository for LMDE, its newer than Testing
3. Sid: this is the Debian Sid or Unstable Repository.

On a Fresh install of LMDE Mate x64, Using Sid, I ran into too many conflicts to resolve; so my question is, is this normal?
If so, how did you resolve the issues?
Also; is this the correct entries for Sid for LMDE?
If not, that explains everything, otherwise, this is a serious problem, and I'm not sure where to start troubleshooting this; it would seem best to install with Sid repositories, then to try to upgrade to them.

I tried to do the upgrade from testing to sid, it failed, and would fail each attempt to run:

Code: Select all
sudo dpkg --configure -a
sudo aptitude build-dep
sudo aptitude install -f


With too many conflicts to resolve.

Right now I'm using Option 2 and it works fine, not many updates in fact; but it did update Firefox; and is more stable then Sid, with no headaches with conflicts.

Code: Select all
# Pick Testing, Incoming or Sid, Experimental is Extra
## Testing - Normal LMDE Repository ##
# deb http://packages.linuxmint.com/ debian main upstream import
# deb http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest testing main contrib non-free
# deb http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest/security testing/updates main contrib non-free
# deb http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest/multimedia testing main non-free
## Incoming - Upstream for Testing - Newer then Testing - LMDE Repository ##
# deb http://packages.linuxmint.com/ debian main upstream import
# deb http://debian.linuxmint.com/incoming testing main contrib non-free
# deb http://debian.linuxmint.com/incoming/security testing/updates main contrib non-free
# deb http://debian.linuxmint.com/incoming/multimedia testing main non-free
## Sid LMDE with Debian Sid Repository ##
# deb http://packages.linuxmint.com/ debian main upstream import backport romeo
# deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free
# deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org sid main non-free
## Experimental Debian Repository ##
# deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ experimental main contrib non-free
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Re: Best way to run the Latest - Testing vs Unstable

Postby Flesh on Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:54 pm

I found two different repositories to use, the new way seems to use the packages.linuxmint.com and debian-multimedia.org sid

Code: Select all
deb http://packages.linuxmint.com/ debian main upstream import backport romeo
deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free
deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org sid main non-free


Where as the old way used mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/linuxmint-packages and debian-multimedia.org unstable;
now what the difference is between sid and unstable, I don't know.

Code: Select all
deb http://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/linuxmint-packages/ debian import main
deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free
deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org unstable main non-free


Now if I use:
sudo aptitude full-upgrade
I get all kinds of conflicts
whereas if I use
sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
both methods above seem to work.

I normally use aptitude, so I think this is why it failed last time, so this time I'll use apt-get and see how it goes.

Does anyone know what the new repos should be?

On my Wish list is that LMDE will publish sources.list to include SiD/Unstable entries, so users do not have to research this every time an Update comes out, I'm currently running Update 4 for the ISO, and my problem seems to be with aptitude, which I have yet to figure that out.
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Re: Best way to run the Latest - Testing vs Unstable

Postby zerozero on Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:29 pm

Flesh,
> latest > incoming > testing > sid > *(experimental)
> lmde uses as of now latest as the default set of repos, used to be different
> as you probably already read latest/incoming are basically the same
> i wouldn't recommend jump 2 releases in a row; move from latest to testing, consolidate the system and then move from testing to sid
> apt or aptitude it's a personal choice, i find apt easier and less prone to breakages this is just an example
> when moving away from latest/incoming, first thing to do is look at /etc/apt/preferences and either delete the file or level all the values to 500 (together with the right repos this is essential)

* this is not a proper release, has to be used together with sid for better results
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Re: Best way to run the Latest - Testing vs Unstable

Postby Flesh on Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:07 pm

After much testing this is what I decided to do:

gksudo pluma /etc/apt/sources.list

Code: Select all
# Pick Testing or Incoming and  Unstable and Eperimental then set preferences
## Testing Update 4 - Normal LMDE Repository ##
# deb http://packages.linuxmint.com/ debian main upstream import
# deb http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest testing main contrib non-free
# deb http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest/security testing/updates main contrib non-free
# deb http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest/multimedia testing main non-free
## Incoming - Upstream for Testing - Newer then Testing - LMDE Repository ##
deb http://packages.linuxmint.com/ debian main upstream import
deb http://debian.linuxmint.com/incoming testing main contrib non-free
deb http://debian.linuxmint.com/incoming/security testing/updates main contrib non-free
deb http://debian.linuxmint.com/incoming/multimedia testing main non-free
## Sid LMDE with Debian Sid Repository ##
deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free
#
## Experimental Debian Repository ##
deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ experimental main contrib non-free


gksudo pluma /etc/apt/preferences

Code: Select all
Package: *
Pin: release o=linuxmint
Pin-Priority: 700

Package: *
Pin: origin packages.linuxmint.com
Pin-Priority: 700

Package: *
Pin: release a=testing
Pin-Priority: 500

Package: *
Pin: release a=unstable
Pin-Priority: -10

Package: *
Pin: release a=experimental
Pin-Priority: -10


Now to install Blender I did this:

Code: Select all
sudo apt-get -t unstable install blender aqsis aqsis-examples yafaray qt4-qtconfig python3.2-doc libx11-doc


I'll do the same for all Apps that I want from Unstable, I could have used Experimental by doing this:

Code: Select all
sudo apt-get -t experimental install blender aqsis aqsis-examples yafaray qt4-qtconfig python3.2-doc libx11-doc


Note that this -t will update all dependencies; if I don't want to update dependencies I could have ran this:
sudo apt-get install PACKAGENAME/unstable

Now I have a very stable OS and the latest Apps I need; this is what I call the Best way to run the Latest; i.e. using testing vs unstable as the main repository; and found that for me its running testing or incoming and installing from unstable or experimental.

What I found was running from Unstable, Code Name SID, which I did for a long time, I rarely had things break; but when they did, it was not fun, but for some reason, I could not get unstable to install with no problems; something in unstable is broken right now; that might change will their next update, and I'm sure if I wanted to, I could resolve all the conflicts, but my guess is that the June Freeze pushed things from experimental into unstable, widening the gap between dependencies in testing and unstable; that is the Nature of Unstable during the the big Freeze; when all I really wanted was a Stable OS with some of the Latest Apps; this is the best of both worlds, and the correct way to do it, regardless of personal preference, I could chose to run testing instead of incoming, but the truth is that Debian Unstable, just means its the Latest and still needs testing; once its tested it goes into testing and there is criteria that has to be meet before that happens; so testing is very stable, now incoming is an LMDE thing; and its very nice way to go, its a step between unstable and testing, and normally will go to testing in a month or so, I do not believe the 10 day thing applies here, but I might be wrong; but since its stable enough for me, and I can deal with a few bugs; write bug reports if I need to; but I am willing to test it, for those that use testing, this makes it more stable; but this allows everyone to test Unstable or Experimental, while still keeping a Stabler OS, which is not as prone to break during a Freeze, and since some apps may be frozen till the next release, this may be the best option to keep up with versions you require; in my case I needed Blender 2.63 and its only in unstable right now, and I only like to run from the Repository; its much cleaner and easier than having to deal with updating the app or recompiling; and as a computer programer I do not have a problem compiling apps; its just that I have other things I'd rather be doing, which is why the Best way to do things, requires the least amount of work in the long run, while keeping the system as stable as possible, so with the help of others and reinstalling a dozens times in the past week, I found this way to be the best of me.
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