Re: Question re LMDE from Info page
Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 4:29 pm
^^ Arch would be my guess too, but the description fits the Aptosid forum fairly well too...
Welcome to the Linux Mint forums!
https://forums.linuxmint.com/
Say what you want, but I find MUCH more worth it to move most of these guys to an android mini-pc (technically a media-center-capable android device, can run XBMC with hardware acceleration for HD movies).woodsman wrote:Instead these folks grab the phone and call us, or send an email, which is the limits of their computer savviness.
I am new to LMDE and know I've much to learn about LMDE (and Linux in general), but it strikes me that whoever wrote "LMDE requires a deeper knowledge..." may already be a 'deeply knowledgeable' person, one who sees "rough edges" etc. with LMDE that those who are less experienced (including me) don't see.tlcmd wrote:I'm not exactly a newbie and have been running Linux Mint since before the Debian Edition was released. I have found LMDE to run well and my chief problems have been technical when installing 3rd party hardware.
My Question: Why does the LMDE download site give this info:
LMDE requires a deeper knowledge and experience with Linux, dpkg and APT.
Debian is a less user-friendly/desktop-ready base than Ubuntu. Expect some rough edges.
No! No! No! We don't want beginner to use it,get into trouble, break everything, and then leave Linux thinking it's a crap and that it doesn't work. That would be stupid. And we would lost so much time helping desperate users that could have made a better choice if they had been warned properly.AlanWalker wrote: In retrospect I agree that the statement in question ought be change to something less likely to discourage a beginner, perhaps to something like "Using LMDE one will be more involved with Linux, dpkg and APT."
I totally agree!KBD47 wrote:I would rather see that statement stay as it is. It is clear and honest. It is less discouraging than letting a newbie think they should jump right in to Debian Testing and become truly discouraged as their install breaks, becomes unusable, or just buggy.
That's so true. I love this distro. It's so stable and at the same time, during UP testing stage I always got a shoot of adrenaline wondering if everything will fail or notZill wrote: LMDE is a great distro but it really is not suitable for newbies. Sure, they might be able to make it run reasonably well initially, but this happy situation may not last!
good point! but take into account that at some point we were all newbies! I started with LMDE to learn linux, and I've learned a lot. Now I can enjoy this distro without serious problems (crossing fingers) and I'm using it for my productive workflow.killer de bug wrote:We don't want beginner to use it,get into trouble, break everything, and then leave Linux thinking it's a crap and that it doesn't work. That would be stupid. And we would lost so much time helping desperate users that could have made a better choice if they had been warned properly.
LMDE is not for newbies. UP can break everything. You don't trust me? Read this for example: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p811325 During the last UP, Plymouth was terrible. It created a lot of problem. And trust me, newbies could not solve them
LMDE is a great distro but it really is not suitable for newbies. Sure, they might be able to make it run reasonably well initially, but this happy situation may not last!
xfrank wrote:good point! but take into account that at some point we were all newbies! I started with LMDE to learn linux, and I've learned a lot. Now I can enjoy this distro without serious problems (crossing fingers) and I'm using it for my productive workflow. :)killer de bug wrote:We don't want beginner to use it,get into trouble, break everything, and then leave Linux thinking it's a crap and that it doesn't work. That would be stupid. And we would lost so much time helping desperate users that could have made a better choice if they had been warned properly.
LMDE is not for newbies. UP can break everything. You don't trust me? Read this for example: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p811325 During the last UP, Plymouth was terrible. It created a lot of problem. And trust me, newbies could not solve them ;)
LMDE is a great distro but it really is not suitable for newbies. Sure, they might be able to make it run reasonably well initially, but this happy situation may not last!
Resuming: LMDE is not for newbies that have not the patience or the will to learn seriously how to manage this distro.
Whelp killer, I disagree.killer de bug wrote:No! No! No! We don't want beginner to use it,get into trouble, break everything, and then leave Linux thinking it's a crap and that it doesn't work. That would be stupid. And we would lost so much time helping desperate users that could have made a better choice if they had been warned properly.AlanWalker wrote: In retrospect I agree that the statement in question ought be change to something less likely to discourage a beginner, perhaps to something like "Using LMDE one will be more involved with Linux, dpkg and APT."
LMDE is not for newbies. UP can break everything. You don't trust me? Read this for example: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p811325 During the last UP, Plymouth was terrible. It created a lot of problem. And trust me, newbies could not solve them
Yeah, but most of the people will simply choose the easiest car to drive.Then there is this: I believe that people who learn to drive a car with a stick shift transmission, rack and pinion steering, and a real instrument panel become better drivers than those who learn in a car with an automatic transmission and a poor instrument panel.
To the degree that that's true, reading "Using LMDE one will be more involved with Linux, dpkg and APT." will lead those so inclined to opt for a different release.bobafetthotmail wrote:Yeah, but most of the people will simply choose the easiest car to drive.Then there is this: I believe that people who learn to drive a car with a stick shift transmission, rack and pinion steering, and a real instrument panel become better drivers than those who learn in a car with an automatic transmission and a poor instrument panel.
No offense taken. No worries. On the contrary, I liked to read your post.AlanWalker wrote: First, please don't take this as a criticism of yourself (nor should any of the others here with differing opinions); I've seen enough of your posts to know you know your way around Linux, and I respect that knowledge (but, back to my argument).
I don't doubt it. Every days Linux is becoming simpler. It was harder a few years ago when I first started using it. And it was already much more simple than when you started working with it. Well I must admit I had never used a computer at that time.AlanWalker wrote:In the 90's Linux was hard, even for a person deeply experienced in computers but new to Linux.
I agree with most of your post but I sincerely think you forgot a very simple parameter.AlanWalker wrote: So, the meme "Linux is hard for newbies" began back in the 90's, and it continues to this day; but what is Linux today relative to what it was then, and what-the-heck is a "newbie"?
[...]
My points are the meme 'Linux is hard for newbies' is badly dated and that generally it seriously underestimates the abilities of today's computer users.
Given the users it is intended for, better to overstate than understate. I'm actually attracted by those overstated disclaimers, so are most people with mild interest for linux. I feel plain xubuntu as too mainstream for me... but I still started with Ubuntu back then before Mint was a thing, not with DebianAlanWalker wrote:To the degree that that's true, reading "Using LMDE one will be more involved with Linux, dpkg and APT." will lead those so inclined to opt for a different release.bobafetthotmail wrote:Yeah, but most of the people will simply choose the easiest car to drive.
Regards,
That is my observation through many years. Most computer users are not geeks. They don't care how the computer runs. Most are very task oriented. They will learn to perform only the tasks they need to use the computer as they envision. After they master those particular sequences of pointing-and-clicking, they stop learning about the computer's interface and software.My mom, my dad, my sister, most of my friends..., only want a computer which work. They don't want (and they don't know) how to solve problems.