about font rendering thing...

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about font rendering thing...

Postby pmd on Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:04 pm

I really don't want to post wall of text with reasons why we (community) should/can/must/(something) debate about this, but...
If LMDE devs can't solve the issue with font rendering should they use font like Ubuntu as default? Don't get me wrong, I really like this font, but when I installed LMDE my first impressions was: (my cool story below)
- "Wow, ubuntu font! Nice, rendering is almost very good"
Then I run Thunderbird...
- "OMG, sh*t, please not again... I will try to install Icedove from experimental repo."
After installation...
- "Yes, that's it, finally I have nice font in system and in TB (in distribution other than buntu)"
Then I launched OO Writer... Facepalm


That destroyed the overall positive picture about LMDE
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Re: about font rendering thing...

Postby viking777 on Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:19 pm

I really don't want to post wall of text with reasons why we (community) should/can/must/(something) debate about this, but...


Well maybe not a wall of text, but perhaps a little word of explanation, because I don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about.

I use LMDE, I use Thunderbird, and as hard as I try to appreciate your point, I really struggle to find anything wrong with the fonts I see.

Maybe my expectations are lower than yours? My criteria for a font is that I can read it - well I can, in both applications.

What am I supposed to be so upset about?

I am not being facetious, I just don't know what you are upset about, and if I don't then probably others don't either.
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Re: about font rendering thing...

Postby pmd on Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:57 pm

LMDE is designed for normal users, not only for Linux fans. What normal users expects from OS?
1. I should be able to do normal stuff like browsing the internet, check e-mails etc.
2. It's free os, so I will not expect very much, but at least most of my hardware should work.
3. My system should like nice, or at least fonts should not be sharped, it's really hurts my eyes.

I'm just trying to say that including something that don't work correctly as default is kinda lame.
I know that there are bigger problems like hardware support for example, but why produce additional problems where solution is simple? (turn off ubuntu font)
I can do that and don't have problems with this, u can do that, and 99% of users on this forum can... but my grandmother can't.
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Re: about font rendering thing...

Postby gotjazz on Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:02 pm

are you talking about rendering or the font choice now?

"turn of ubuntu font" because "fonts are sharped"?
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Re: about font rendering thing...

Postby viking777 on Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:09 pm

I'm just trying to say that including something that don't work correctly as default is kinda lame.


I couldn't agree more. But you still haven't answered my question. What is it that doesn't work correctly?

I promise you I am not trying to be difficult, I just cannot remotely understand what the problem is.

Even if you successfully explain what the problem is I have no doubt that I won't be the one to solve it for you, since I can't even see it yet alone solve it. But I would at least like to be able to understand what it is you object to, at the moment I don't have a clue, seriously.
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Re: about font rendering thing...

Postby craig10x on Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:16 pm

The Ubuntu fonts and font rendering are two different matters which you are mixing together as one...

Clem improved the font rendering with LMDE so that instead of looking crappy as debian normally does (since they don't do any tweaking on rendering)
Clem patched in the libcairo patches that Ubuntu uses to get it's outstanding rendering, on the December iso which i have installed on my computer now..

Back in September i looked at the iso and was instantly turned off by how web surfing looked and i did not want to have to tinker with various patchings as i think that is best left to the distro's developer's (like Clem) do it right for us...

Once i saw the December iso the difference was fantastic...now LMDE looks as good as ubuntu and my compliments to Clem!

The ubuntu "fonts" is a font design done for ubuntu and is included in the MInt 10 LMDE updates (and on my iso)...because it appears in ubuntu 10.10...
You don't have to use them if you don't want to...

I leave Clem's ubuntu font settings for applications and though for awhile i was web surfing using the ubuntu fonts on Chrome (which requires the ubuntu fonts extention to make it work on chrome) but later decided to take off the plug in and surf with the normal ms-core (windows type) fonts that i always download from the software manager...

If you don't like ubuntu fonts in anything (including applications) just go into the appearance setting and CHANGE IT.... :wink:
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Re: about font rendering thing...

Postby mudpie on Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:40 pm

I don't want to hijack the thread, but could someone please tell me briefly *what* font rendering "thing"?

There is this post, and there is the help post that is a mile long.

What am I missing? Do I have to use Thunderbird to see this grotesque font problem?

My default font looked lovely on install. Still does. I go through my font choices - all lovely. I plopped my old .fonts directory into ~, now I have even more lovely fonts.

Nautilus, Gnome panels, Open Office, Inkscape, gEdit, GIMP, Firefox, Evolution, Pidgin, terminal, uh.... I guess the search box in synaptic and package manager... oh the login text area... all the text in World of Warcraft under Crossover(Wine)... I can't think of anything else that I've typed text into. But they all look fine!

I don't doubt for a second there *is* a problem, and for all the threads/posts about it, it sounds widespread. But what *is* the problem? How did I get passed over? (Not that I'm complaining!)

-Laura

edit: I just double checked the big "HOWTO: Improve Font Rendering in LMDE" and ikey is only addressing Firefox. But there are mention of other programs, like OpenOffice. I hope my post doesn't read as snarky, that's not my intent at all. I'm genuinely interested in what I should be thankful I'm missing out on. (I feel seriously lucky because I'm somewhat new to LMDE - after busting my brains over the wireless driver, I might have thrown in the towel if I had ugly fonts awaiting me next!)
Last edited by mudpie on Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: about font rendering thing...

Postby rivenathos on Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:47 pm

When I see the odd font issues with Firefox and Thunderbird, I refer to something such as http://www.ubuntu-inside.me/2009/07/howto-fix-firefox-35s-font-hinting.html. My fonts in Firefox and Thunderbird looked much better after that.
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