New on LMDE, Lots of Hardware and Software Issues

[mfreeman]

I'm new to LMDE, but not to Mint. With all the problems the newest Ubuntu version has had on my laptop recently, I decided to give the LMDE Gnome 64-bit version a try. I've got loads of problems (both hardware and software) that I'm hoping someone might have some solutions for.

1. Cannot get the proprietary ATI driver working at all. Not sure what the issue is there. It works fine in the Ubuntu-based Mint. Hardware: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4200

2. Suspend kills my screen. I can suspend the computer, and I can "wake it up" again, but the screen doesn't come back up. This might possibly be solved when I get #1 fixed. I don't know. I know the computer is functioning fine otherwise. I can hear normal sounds (I've got an e-mail checker running that makes a sound when a new e-mail comes in). I can make the Caps Lock and Num Lock lights turn on and off. I cannot get any response from the screen.

3. I cannot get Indicators working properly. I know Indicator-Applet an Ubuntu thing, but I was hoping that because it is also in the Debian repos that it would work the same as in Ubuntu. I cannot get Evolution, Thunderbird, Empathy, Pidgin, or XChat to show up in the Messaging menu. Only "Broadcast" (aka Gwibber) is listed, and I never use that. I cannot install many of my other favorite indicators (can't find the Debian equivalents). Any ideas? Or am I stuck with the old applets and notification area concept?

4. There appears to be two separate sound systems running and not cooperating. If I use my computer's media buttons to turn the volume up or down, an on-screen-display comes up near the bottom-center of the screen, indicating that the volume is being turned down. However, sound is still produced, and the sound applet on the panel shows the volume still turned up. Shouldn't this be unified by default?

5. I had just bought some games from the latest "Humble Indie Bundle", and some don't seem to want to run (could it be because of #1?).

6. Fonts don't seem to look as nice. Again, might be a consequence of #1.

7. There are occasionally package conflicts that I can't resolve when trying to install some software. For example, foomatic-db-engine wants to update, but if I do, it removes CUPS, which is not good.

8. I cannot get Empathy to run. I get the following in a terminal:

The program 'empathy' received an X Window System error.
This probably reflects a bug in the program.
The error was 'BadRequest (invalid request code or no such operation)'.
(Details: serial 137 error_code 1 request_code 135 minor_code 19)
(Note to programmers: normally, X errors are reported asynchronously;
that is, you will receive the error a while after causing it.
To debug your program, run it with the --sync command line
option to change this behavior. You can then get a meaningful
backtrace from your debugger if you break on the gdk_x_error() function.)

9. I cannot use my software backup file from Katya's MintBackup in LMDE, so I'm having to figure out what packages I had installed from memory.

10. I cannot get Compiz to work well, and I can't find a Debian repository for the Emerald window manager. Compiz actually seemed to partially work when I first installed LMDE, but once I installed the Compiz plugin packages I normally use, it stopped running at all. Again, I installed that at the same time I tried installing the fglrx driver, so it could be related to #1. Gave me this in the terminal:

compiz (core) - Fatal: glXCreateContext failed
compiz (core) - Error: Failed to manage screen: 0
compiz (core) - Fatal: No manageable screens found on display :0.0

11. My laptop's cooling fan is running at high speed non-stop. This doesn't sound healthy for my laptop.

I like the idea of LMDE, and I like its speed, but this many problems on a basic install is just overwhelming. Mint is known for its great "out-of-the-box" functionality, and this just does not yet live up to that. Hopefully it will in the future.

If someone has any insight into these issues I've listed, I would really appreciate it. Otherwise, I will have to drop back down to LM 10, which was just about perfect. Hopefully LM 12 is better than LM 11 and LMDE!

Thanks!

[mfreeman]

Well, this thing is overheating my computer big time. I'm not risking my laptop to try LMDE. I'm taking it off now and installing LM 10.

[mfreeman]

Ok, one last ditch effort got the fglrx driver working. Had to use "aticonfig --initial" to get it configured. Not sure why they didn't just do this in the package install script. In Ubuntu-based Mint, just installing the fglrx package put everything into place. Anyway, this solved #'s 1, 2, 5, 8, and 10. And #9 seems to have resolved itself somehow. That's a good chunk of the problems right there. Now, I'll repost the ones I'm still dealing with:

3. I cannot get Indicators working properly. I know Indicator-Applet an Ubuntu thing, but I was hoping that because it is also in the Debian repos that it would work the same as in Ubuntu. I cannot get Evolution, Thunderbird, Empathy, Pidgin, or XChat to show up in the Messaging menu. Only "Broadcast" (aka Gwibber) is listed, and I never use that. I cannot install many of my other favorite indicators (can't find the Debian versions), such as VirtualBox-Indicator, DateTime Indicator (the Gnome clock applet takes an unusable amount of time to open the calendar when I have a lot of events), etc. Any ideas? Or am I stuck with the old applets and notification area concept?

4. There appears to be two separate sound systems running and not cooperating. If I use my computer's media buttons to turn the volume up or down, an on-screen-display comes up near the bottom-center of the screen, indicating that the volume is being turned down. However, sound is still produced, and the sound applet on the panel shows the volume still turned up. Shouldn't this be unified by default?

6. Fonts don't seem to look as nice. They are thinner and not as smooth-looking, even though I have the same exact fonts and font settings as before.

7. There are occasionally package conflicts that I can't resolve when trying to install some software. For example, foomatic-db-engine wants to update, but if I do, it removes CUPS, which is not good.

11. My laptop's cooling fan is running at high speed non-stop. This doesn't sound healthy for my laptop. It's not running as hot now that I got the ATI driver working, but it's still a bit warmer than usual.

[zerozero]

let's see the ones i know:
3- i'm afraid (or not - the ubuntu patch is imho horrible) you can't get the ubuntu messaging menu running in debian (not the way it runs in ubuntu and in the ubuntu-based ed of mint) - it's an ubuntu specific (actually to be totally honest there was an unofficial patch -hadret - but it's not maintained anymore), so neither the notification area is patched nor the apps have the required patches to inter-act with it; if this is a dealbreaker, you should consider the ubuntu ed.

6- Clem ported the ubuntu patch to LMDE, so the fonts should be similar, anyway here you can find a few hacks to improve LMDE (and one for fonts among them (use them at your own risk - they may not work in your system)

7- it's a known issue- when UP3 was frozen to release, not all deps were met to update foomatic-db-engine, hence it's held back, should be solved in the next UP

[mfreeman]

Ok. Thanks! As for #3, it's more of an annoyance than a showstopper. It's something I had gotten used to with the Ubuntu-based Mint versions, and was worked into my routine. I just need to get used to the old way again. With the #6 font issue, even with the hacks in that link, the fonts look really thin and there are a lot more obvious RGB-antialias artifacts that didn'tr exist before. #7, I'll just ignore that one for now then.

Thanks for your help!

[mfreeman]

Ok, now THIS is a showstopper. Many of the games that my kids and I enjoy playing just plain don't run (and if my kids can't play their usual games, there will be hell to pay in our home). World of Goo, which worked beautifully in LM 10 and 11, crashes with a segmenation fault. We run Plants vs. Zombies with Wine (which was a struggle in and of itself to find a fairly current Debian repository), and it ran fine with LM 9, 10, and 11. Now it crashes. Both of these games are ones we purchased, so if they don't run, that's REALLY bad news. I can't install FlightGear at all from the repositories because of dependency problems. This, plus all the other problems I've had, is just plain unacceptable. I'm done with LMDE. This has been a huge waste of my time. Ubuntu is slower and has its issues, but this version of Mint is just broken any way you put it.

[itbcn8]

I am really surprised by all these posts. I consider myself quite a noob when it comes to Linux, but I haven't had any problems with LMDE... The only issues I had was wifi drivers, but I found detailed instructions on how to install those... And when I had to update through the update manager, but again the LM team always puts out great instructions.

I have installed it on 4 different computers and laptops, all different graphics cards, processors, etc, no issues.

Albeit, if we're talking about the latest latest version, I still haven't upgraded, so it might be broken now.

[mfreeman]

I don't know what the issue is. It might just be something about my hardware that doesn't get along with Debian. But problems with Debian (before LMDE ever came out) were why I moved to Mint. And these are the same exact issues I'm having once again with LMDE. Hardware and software incompatibility. I think that Debian/LMDE might be fine for some, but for the general population it's just not quite there yet. Ubuntu/LM Main Edition, with all its problems recently, still has many more advantages than disadvantages. More software is made specifically for Ubuntu than for Debian, PPA's are much easier to use than installing repositories and making sure PGP keys are there and up to date and such, there are more software packages available by default in Ubuntu, hardware support seems to be a little better, etc. I just wish it was as light, fast, stable, and rolling like LMDE. Wish there was a way to have the best of both.

[zerozero]

Although it’s using Romeo for unstable packages, LMDE continuously changes as it receives updates and new software. Compared to a frozen version of Linux Mint which changes very little once it’s publicly released, it’s not as stable. Things are likely to break more often but fixes can also come quicker. For this reason, LMDE requires a deeper knowledge and experience with Linux, dpkg and APT.
Debian is a less user-friendly/desktop-ready base than Ubuntu. Expect some rough edges.

the bold is mine, but the warning is present in every LMDE release.
if you feel more comfortable with the ubuntu-based ed., of course, they are fine releases.

[DrHu]

More software is made specifically for Ubuntu than for Debian

Despite Ubuntu's propaganda about their updates from Debian etc, I can't believe that more applications (read software) is available on Ubuntu repositories than on Debian repositories

I understood that Debian had the largest amount of OSS software availably than any Linux distribution..
--maybe you are thinking of extras, such as Ubuntu's menu structures etc or their own methods of managing their OS.
http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major

• The success of Debian GNU/Linux can be illustrated by the following numbers. It is developed by over 1,000 volunteer developers, its software repositories contain more than 20,000 packages (compiled for 11 processor architectures), and it is responsible for inspiring over 120 Debian-based distributions and live CDs. These figures are unmatched by any other Linux-based operating system

[mfreeman]

Although it’s using Romeo for unstable packages, LMDE continuously changes as it receives updates and new software. Compared to a frozen version of Linux Mint which changes very little once it’s publicly released, it’s not as stable. Things are likely to break more often but fixes can also come quicker. For this reason, LMDE requires a deeper knowledge and experience with Linux, dpkg and APT.
Debian is a less user-friendly/desktop-ready base than Ubuntu. Expect some rough edges.

the bold is mine, but the warning is present in every LMDE release.
if you feel more comfortable with the ubuntu-based ed., of course, they are fine releases.

Yes, I've read that and know that. I was expecting there to be "rough edges", I just was not expecting it to give me nearly as many problems as it has.

[zerozero]

your ultimate issue with LMDE was wine? (i don't use that thing, got rid of all attachments to microsoft), but what method did you used?
bellow you have a short and comprehensive howto install wine in LMDE

by wyrdoak on Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:34 pm
http://dev.carbon-project.org/debian/wine-unstable/

1. Look for the list of packages for your architecture (32bit or 64bit)
2. Download each file in the list (there will be 18-19 files)
3. In your Downloads directory there will now be 18-19 .deb files
4. While in the Downloads directory, right-click on a blank space and select open in Terminal
5. Your command prompt should now look something like: tom@tom-laptop:~/Downloads$
6. Enter the following command:
CODE: SELECT ALL
sudo dpkg -i *.deb

7. All of those .deb files in Downloads will now be installed
8. Once it is done installing, you can delete all the .deb files in Downloads
9. Enjoy Wine 1.3

install lib32asound2-plugins among others listed here though the package manager :[Look for Debian.]

http://wiki.winehq.org/Recommended_Pack ... 64c0e7536f


I'm not readly too impressed with WINE in LMDE, but it's OK for the few things I still need it for.

EDIT: if you need directx : http://www.smokinglinux.com/gaming/play ... nd-directx
Last edited by wyrdoak on Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[mfreeman]

More software is made specifically for Ubuntu than for Debian

Despite Ubuntu's propaganda about their updates from Debian etc, I can't believe that more applications (read software) is available on Ubuntu repositories than on Debian repositories

I understood that Debian had the largest amount of OSS software availably than any Linux distribution..
--maybe you are thinking of extras, such as Ubuntu's menu structures etc or their own methods of managing their OS.
http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major

• The success of Debian GNU/Linux can be illustrated by the following numbers. It is developed by over 1,000 volunteer developers, its software repositories contain more than 20,000 packages (compiled for 11 processor architectures), and it is responsible for inspiring over 120 Debian-based distributions and live CDs. These figures are unmatched by any other Linux-based operating system

I guess I should be more clear. What I meant by what you quoted wasn't software that's in the repositories. I'm talking about what's not in them. For example, if I want to use a "non-free" proprietary piece of software made for Linux that isn't in the repositories, you are much more likely to find an Ubuntu-specific .deb file than a Debian one. It may work, but it usually isn't tested on it, so there are no guarantees. Even with open source software, I've run into problems. For example, try to find Emerald for Compiz. It's not in the Debian repositories (at least not the ones that come with LMDE), but it is in Ubuntu. And Compiz itself? Debian has a much older version, then you have to do some hacks just to get to work, whereas Ubuntu has a much newer one. Now, I didn't like the newer one, but guess what: I could find any version I want to use very easily in an Ubuntu PPA. Couldn't find that with Debian. How about Wine? It's not in the Debian repositories at all, and there are no current 3rd-party Debian repositories available, that I can find. This is that sort of thing I'm talking about. There may be loads of stuff in the Debian repos, but popular stuff most people actually want to use? Nope.

[AlbertP]

• The success of Debian GNU/Linux can be illustrated by the following numbers. It is developed by over 1,000 volunteer developers, its software repositories contain more than 20,000 packages (compiled for 11 processor architectures), and it is responsible for inspiring over 120 Debian-based distributions and live CDs. These figures are unmatched by any other Linux-based operating system

Ubuntu has over 30,000 packages in the repo if you also count -dev packages. There are more Ubuntu-based than Debian-based distros in the list on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Li ... untu-based. But perhaps the "120" includes Ubuntu + derivatives as well as there are just 40 Debian-based distros in that list.
But indeed, Ubuntu doesn't reach 11 architectures or over 1,000 developers.

[mfreeman]

your ultimate issue with LMDE was wine? (i don't use that thing, got rid of all attachments to microsoft), but what method did you used?
bellow you have a short and comprehensive howto install wine in LMDE

Thank you for your howto! But, I think you misunderstand. My ultimate issue isn't Wine. Read the whole post. Only one of the pieces of software that I listed was Wine-related.

The ultimate issue is software that my family wants to use (for my kids, it's games) just doesn't run on LMDE, at least the ones they love the most. And at least without hours of work hacking and cludging it together. Most of those are indeed Linux-native programs, not Wine-based.

Personally, I would rather not use Wine, either, as it's not anywhere near perfect, but there are a few pieces of software that I *have* to use that don't have any Linux equivalents at all, but do work on Wine pretty well. I just used that one game as an example, because it is something my kids use all the time, and it crashes in LMDE.

[zerozero]

mfreeman,
about software availability that's the kind of propaganda ubuntu wants the users to believe; none of the examples you gave here are ubuntu-specific (the only thing ubuntu did was ported them downstream, and only once they are in one of debian's repos (be it testing, sid or experimental);
it's true that "pure debian" doesn't care much about certain "superfluous" things but as you have PPA's in ubuntu so you have debian-compatible repos
http://sites.google.com/site/mydebiansourceslist/
(the warning stands for both: use with care, things may break) but in there you can find everything (what you can't apt-get doesn't exist or doesn't matter)
now, of course there's a few ubuntu-specific that you won't find anywhere else (unity, messaging menu, ubuntu-one)

in the end of the day, i'm sorry that LMDE didn't work for you, but one must choose what works for ours needs and our hardware, there's not a perfect distro, there's only a perfect distro for us!

Albert, if you consider that debian is ubuntu's big father, it's easy to see those numbers in a different light.

[mfreeman]

mfreeman,
about software availability that's the kind of propaganda ubuntu wants the users to believe; none of the examples you gave here are ubuntu-specific (the only thing ubuntu did was ported them downstream, and only once they are in one of debian's repos (be it testing, sid or experimental);

I'm not listening to any propaganda. I haven't heard anything about this subject from them or anyone. I'm purely using what I'm seeing and experiencing. All I'm doing is comparing what I'm seeing happen in LM 9/10/11 with what I'm seeing in LMDE.

it's true that "pure debian" doesn't care much about certain "superfluous" things but as you have PPA's in ubuntu so you have debian-compatible repos
http://sites.google.com/site/mydebiansourceslist/
(the warning stands for both: use with care, things may break) but in there you can find everything (what you can't apt-get doesn't exist or doesn't matter)
now, of course there's a few ubuntu-specific that you won't find anywhere else (unity, messaging menu, ubuntu-one)

I do know that things not found in the official repositories are in 3rd-party repositories. For my research of repositories, I used Google to try to find specifically what I needed (for example, I searched 'debian wine repository') and found only repositories that no longer existed, or ones with only very old versions, whereas with LM Main/Ubuntu I could quickly search Google or Launchpad for what I wanted and at least one (often two or three) up-to-date PPA's almost always popped up at the top of the list. For Wine, I eventually found a .deb file of the version before the current one that wasn't in a repository. However, I'm not sure how well it works. I would think Wine would be something that should be in the official repos.

in the end of the day, i'm sorry that LMDE didn't work for you, but one must choose what works for ours needs and our hardware, there's not a perfect distro, there's only a perfect distro for us!

I also understand that I can choose other distros. And I'm *trying* to find the "perfect distro for me" rather than the perfect distro. I was actually extremely happy with LM 8, 9, and 10. LM 11's nasty problems, and some of the things I see happening with Ubuntu that will surely affect LM, are making me want to find something better. I'm simply wanting to set up a system that allows me to run the software I want/need to use while being fast, stable, and preferably rolling, as opposed to LM Main and Ubuntu being slower, slightly unstable, and needing to be reinstalled when a version looses support. LMDE is great for the last half of that, but the first half seems to be more tricky. I want a system that "just works" for what I need it for, without much fuss. I know that LMDE isn't as "easy" as LM Main/Ubuntu, but having had some experience with Debian in the past, I was hoping that I could navigate the minor difficulties and have the system I want. Instead, I see that software support for some things (like the aforementioned Wine and Compiz) is even worse than the situation was when I used Debian a couple years ago.

That said, I will look at your sources.list. If that helps sort out my difficulties, then I'll give LMDE another chance. I'm not opposed to doing a *little* tweaking of things. I just don't have time to be saddled with long lists of things that don't work or need hacks or that I have to find alternatives for.

Thanks for your input!

[AlbertP]

I'm not opposed to doing a *little* tweaking of things. I just don't have time to be saddled with long lists of things that don't work or need hacks or that I have to find alternatives for.

Exactly why I have chosen Mint 11. I only have to install a graphics driver and it's all working.

With Windows you need to install lots of drivers. Once I had a problem with a driver for Vista Home Premium which did not work on Vista Ultimate.

[mfreeman]

I'm not opposed to doing a *little* tweaking of things. I just don't have time to be saddled with long lists of things that don't work or need hacks or that I have to find alternatives for.

Exactly why I have chosen Mint 11. I only have to install a graphics driver and it's all working.

With Windows you need to install lots of drivers. Once I had a problem with a driver for Vista Home Premium which did not work on Vista Ultimate.

Agreed about the Windows thing! Personally, I had some problems with Mint 11. I've been using it since it came out, and had to wrestle compiz into submission (replaced it with the older version), and even once I got it to a decent point, it just was never quite stable. So I was hoping LMDE might be a better fit because of its reputation for stability, and I like the idea of a rolling distro instead of having to reinstall every so often. Mint 11 is really good otherwise. If Mint 11 didn't have stability problems on my hardware I would have stayed there for sure.

[mfreeman]

Ok, I think I've finally got most of my issues resolved. The only ones left are: Lack of Indicator support (which is fairly minor, although I do miss some of the functionality they provide), and a number of games (both Wine- and Linux-based) show sections of garbled graphics. I posted a picture of what I mean in the thread "LMDE and Wine ??" (http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=190&t=82446). This picture was a Wine-based game, but others (such as Funguloids and Tux Kart) show the same problem.

Get this one resolved, and I might just be content with LMDE, at least until LM comes out with something better.