LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Questions about other topics - please check if your question fits better in another category before posting here
Forum rules
Before you post please read this

Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby roger64 on Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:15 am

Hi

@Transitman
Thank you for your stern and didactic post, listing the many options we have, including the last one : say thanks and go away... :D

I dislike fiddling with my excellently well working LMDE system, so since you list some unofficial options, let me add this one: I installed and tried SolydX (Xfce for those who ignore it) on a brand new partition and it works extremely well. I could use the "latest" NVIDIA driver (something .88) and a recent kernel (3.9.1 I think). What SolydX brought me? Few things indeed, I could use some new software that was not running with my LMDE current glib version (Sayonara, Blue Griffon) and that's about it to be honest. Playonlinux and the near-latest Firefox too...

This morning, I updated LMDE, not with Cinnamon but with Mate (1.4 though).

For the last months, most of LMDE users - and former users - have asked themselves a basic question: "What happens with LMDE?" I do not protest against the lack of updates (they will come in due time, I hope) but I certainly would appreciate some honest bit of information about the intended LMDE schedule. As I could see with Solydx that the kernel 3.9.1 is working pretty well, I imagine that Cinnamon is maybe facing some -gnome-related?- tough problems. Some months ago, some presumably knowledgeable people (Cinnarch, Manjaro) stopped using Cinnamon, now the loooooooooooong silence of Clem, can only add fuel to their judgment. There seems to be something rotten in the kingdom of Denmark... When you refuse to say anything about your bill of health, you can't prevent concerned friends to fear about some cancer news... I really know nothing. I am just wondering...
roger64
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:48 am

Linux Mint is funded by ads and donations.
 

Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby eidnch on Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:32 am

Hi, i am new here ...

I use Linux Mint from Version 4 on and i like LM and i want to say a big thank-you for your work.

I follow this post already some time i want to place my suggestions. For now i have installed LM KDE LTS and LMDE on separate partitions to test both systems for stability. I don't want to install my system every new year. So for me is a semi-rolling release model next to a LTS model the best option. Last year there was still debian CUT with a snapshot for every month, now there is SolydXK with a update pack every month and LMDE with UPs every half a year. For me also half a year is to long. The best would be for me in the middle, a UP every 3 month. For example, I like Google-Chrome, because the sandboxing feature, but its not working any more with the kernel in LMDE. Ubuntu has backported this feature to kernel 3.2 but not Debian, so you need a newer kernel. Debian testing is no semi-rolling release model any more, its a rolling release model , so that is no option. You lose the stability. With LMDE UPs for now you lose security over stability.

The strong part of LM is, that they are hearing the suggestions, so why not ask, discuss and vote for the best UP range and when there is the need for more developers why not ask for more? for a LMDE developers leader?
eidnch
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:55 am

Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby Transitman on Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:07 pm

While I have one LMDE system working just fine (dislike fiddling as much as the next who wants a stable running system), I took one of my machines and hacked in SolydX, and removed all traces of Mint.
While this is not a recommended way, I like to fiddle with at least one system.
I am also running Liquorix Kernel 3.10-9.dmz-liquorix-amd64. The system is stable, and I am following Testing/Jessie and some SID.

As for why things are quiet on the "Clem" front on when the next UP is coming out, only Clem knows for sure.
And I've seen this cycle before, and after some time things work out and gets back to "normal".

Cinnamon has hit a wall with Gnome3 dependencies messing with it. Don't know when it will get resolved, but I watch the forums for updates.

And like you, I really know nothing, just wonder and wait and watch the forums.
Transitman
Level 2
Level 2
 
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:48 am

Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby eidnch on Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:08 am

I changed also now from LMDE to SolydX. For that i removed Cinnamon and installed Xfce. I tweaked Xfce with Compiz and it looks very nice, runs faster than Cinnamon. After some tweaks it runs good now, hope SolydX will survive the next years. Perhaps Debian CUT will come again to life ... or LMDE will release the UPs more frequently ... we will see what the future brings. I have still LM KDE LTS on my other partition and the advantages with the ubuntu base are the ppa repositories. There is less to compile from source. But also Debian has its advantages, it will be there also the next 10 years, Ubuntu perhaps not ...

For me half a year to wait for UPs is to long, you lose the advantages of a semi-rolling-release model. The advantage of a semi-rolling-release model is the balance of stability, security and cutting edge. SolydXK fulfill this purpose, but in my opinion not the UPs of LMDE. Ok, this is my point of view, that has to be discussed ... :-)

I think the problem is Cinnamon for now. When you make UPs more frequently it will break Cinnamon, because Cinnamon is developed for the Ubuntu base and the Ubuntu base has a half a year development cycle. With the disadvantage of a 9 month support, i ask, why not only stick with Ubuntu LTS for the main edition? That would be better for the main edition and for LMDE. ElementaryOS and Bodhi went already this way ...
eidnch
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:55 am

Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby Zill on Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:00 am

eidnch wrote:...For me half a year to wait for UPs is to long, you lose the advantages of a semi-rolling-release model. The advantage of a semi-rolling-release model is the balance of stability, security and cutting edge. SolydXK fulfill this purpose, but in my opinion not the UPs of LMDE...

+1
eidnch wrote:...I think the problem is Cinnamon for now. When you make UPs more frequently it will break Cinnamon, because Cinnamon is developed for the Ubuntu base and the Ubuntu base has a half a year development cycle...

IMHO this is an interesting theory but I would like to see some confirmation of this from the LMDE developers. AIUI, Cinnamon is based on Gnome 3 and this might be part of the problem. Although MATE has the look and feel of Gnome 2, is this also based on Gnome 3 and inheriting similar problems? Are there any LMDE/Cinnamon/MATE devs out there prepared to explain exactly what the problem (if any!) is?
User avatar
Zill
Level 2
Level 2
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:15 am
Location: Lincolnshire, UK

Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby francheu on Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:35 am

Some nice comments from Clem on the LM blog http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2427:
The next update pack was prepared this week and should arrive into incoming next week. We also took the opportunity to upgrade MATE to 1.6, Firefox to 23 and Thunderbird to 17.0.8. Regarding the “rolling” aspect of LMDE, no, it is not “rolling”. It uses snapshots and emphasizes stability over updates. If you were to follow Debian Testing for instance, you’d break Cinnamon 1.8 with the gjs 1.36 update… Update Packs were designed precisely so you don’t have to worry about things like that.

new ISOs will come post-Mint 16 (also likely with a new UP8). Our priority with UP7 is to update the base for existing users. When the time comes to work on new ISOs, we want to put in them all the things we’re currently working in.. so the improvements featured in Mint 16, as well as MATE 1.8 and Cinnamon 2.0, we want to have all of that in the next ISOs. From a technical point of view Cinnamon 2.0 is also important to LMDE because it uses its own backend and its own Javascript interpreter. The situation in UP7 isn’t ideal as both Gnome Shell and Cinnamon depend on gjs and they need different versions of it… I’ll explain more about this problem (there’s a workaround for it, but it’s not ideal) in the UP release notes.


Enfin ! :D

Though the frequency update is quite low, I appreciate the fact that I do not have to re-install everything once or twice a year, and tweak the fresh install to my needs (LXDE, remove/install a bunch of software... ). What is the point in having the very latest version of a software ? Did you see any difference between FF21 and FF23 (from the casual user point of view) ?
LMDE may not be perfect on this point but it fully satisfies my needs.

François
francheu
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:30 am

Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby killer de bug on Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:51 am

francheu wrote: What is the point in having the very latest version of a software ? Did you see any difference between FF21 and FF23 (from the casual user point of view) ?
François



I may be wrong but for example it's not possible to get the last version of Chromium right now in LMDE. And without this last version, no replay on a very famous french TV channel. :wink:
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. [Isaac Newton]
User avatar
killer de bug
Level 7
Level 7
 
Posts: 1613
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:49 pm
Location: Austria

Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby eidnch on Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:30 am

What is the point in having the very latest version of a software ? Did you see any difference between FF21 and FF23 (from the casual user point of view) ?
François


When you don't update firefox you will miss the security updates and bug fixes. This should be the advantage of a semi-rolling release model, the base is kept stable and security relevant programs are updated. For example PCLinuxOS and Chakra Linux work in this way. From wheezy on you have now also apparmor, this is already a improvement. Linux is not invulnerable ... your private data in the user space can also be accessed by browser security holes. Chromium and Google Chrome have a sandbox, but it don't work now with LMDE, so with that UP range of half a year you have to live 3 or 4 month without that sandbox. But how Clem said, the priority of the UPs is stability and not security. He also said in the blog, that their UPs are handled as snapshots not as rolling release. So the UPs in LMDE is not a rolling release nor a semi-rolling release model. The advantage is only stability and that you don't have to reinstall every half a year but you have not the advantages of a semi-rolling release model, the balance of stability and security. Thanks god there is now SolydKX ... :-) ... i test it now but my main distribution is still LM KDE LTS.
eidnch
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:55 am

Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby francheu on Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:36 am

When you don't update firefox you will miss the security updates and bug fixes.


I know, but looking at the release pace of firefox, I find it normal that LM does not update it just in time.
We missed FF22, and we got FF23 three weeks after it release, this is quite satisfying for a free distribution...

François
francheu
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:30 am

Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby eidnch on Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:37 am

Yes, Firefox is good supported by LMDE, there are also updates between the UPs.

So i think,

- if you need stability and cinnamon you can use LMDE with UPs,
- if you need a rolling release then use LMDE with testing or SID,
- if you need a semi-rolling release then use SolydXK,
- if you need the ubuntu base then use the main editon,

there is for every need the right distribution. Perhaps with cinnamon 2.0 you can use it also in debian testing, i don't know.
Last edited by eidnch on Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
eidnch
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:55 am

Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby Jerom on Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:36 am

francheu wrote:
When you don't update firefox you will miss the security updates and bug fixes.


I know, but looking at the release pace of firefox, I find it normal that LM does not update it just in time.
We missed FF22, and we got FF23 three weeks after it release, this is quite satisfying for a free distribution...

François

I also find some delay normal and healthy rather than jumping in every new version (23.0.0 was buggy, hence 23.0.1 with a correction - as usual with FF I would say...)

But I'd rather go by default with Firefox ESR (17.0.x) for stability : http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/faq/
With security backports every 90 days.
And a new stable release every year or so - the next one will be v24.0 in october'13 will follow the latest 17.0.8.
Jerom
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:43 pm

Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby lukew on Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:59 pm

In case anyone has not seen the news, LMDE UP7 is incoming!

There was a reference in the latest news email; some issues to resolve but more importantly it is incoming!!!
lukew
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:00 am

Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby Crewp on Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:50 pm

It wont be long now :D
Image
User avatar
Crewp
Level 5
Level 5
 
Posts: 618
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:36 pm
Location: Connecticut

Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby excollier on Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:22 am

What sort of size of download are we talking here?
Registered Linux user #557695
CompTIA A+
Kwheezy , Lubuntu 14.04
Here's a snippet of real excitement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAPlnPtF ... 2cwvDhF-aw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QflahNQMOgM
excollier
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:31 pm
Location: Way off centre.

Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby Riko on Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:09 am

excollier wrote:What sort of size of download are we talking here?


Judging from what one currently sees in the incoming repos, prepare for something larger than 800 MB
Dell Latitude E6230 with Intel i7, 8GB RAM, 500 GB SSD
dual boot: LMDE and Antergos both running gnome-shell
surviving in a Windows world with VMware WS 10 and Crossover 13
Riko
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:10 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby Orbmiser on Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:40 pm

Holy Molelee! That is huge how many months between update packs.

Me with a slow 1.5mb connection and glad I went with SolydK with monthly updates which I assume are a lot smaller.
Just going to Debian rolling KDE so rolling debian is new to me.
But wonder that size to install takes up as much time to download for many?
As doing a Clean install and restoring your separate /home as installing non-rolling new versions with separate /home?

Just seems like it's as much work and more things with the possibility of breakage when they are that old and big?
As kept my /home and installed solydK to root and just a minimum 10 mins fuss to adjust a couple of things and worked like a charm.

And with monthly would think be a smoother transition?

Sorry just trying to understand the process and understand the long delay between update packs in Mint.
And any inherently problems with rolling releases and update packs in general.
.
User avatar
Orbmiser
Level 7
Level 7
 
Posts: 1514
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:16 pm
Location: Portland,Oregon

Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby Crewp on Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:18 pm

Guess we will have to wait and see. :shock:
Image
User avatar
Crewp
Level 5
Level 5
 
Posts: 618
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:36 pm
Location: Connecticut

Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby excollier on Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:46 am

800MB+? That's gonna take about 3-4 hours to download for me. Generally anything that big I download with my Raspberry Pi so I can shut down my main computer, saves power and can be left to it. Obviously that's not possible here, so I'll see what the SolydK UP is like tomorrow so I can compare. My LMDE partition looks under threat.
Registered Linux user #557695
CompTIA A+
Kwheezy , Lubuntu 14.04
Here's a snippet of real excitement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAPlnPtF ... 2cwvDhF-aw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QflahNQMOgM
excollier
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:31 pm
Location: Way off centre.

Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby Riko on Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:54 am

Well, the SolydXK UP will not be any better considering it follows a monthly cycle:

from http://solydxk.com/ about UP 2013.09.06
Those who haven’t upgraded from the testing repositories, and depending on whether you’re a SolydX or SolydK user you will have between 200MB until 700MB of packages to download.


Good luck!
Dell Latitude E6230 with Intel i7, 8GB RAM, 500 GB SSD
dual boot: LMDE and Antergos both running gnome-shell
surviving in a Windows world with VMware WS 10 and Crossover 13
Riko
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:10 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby excollier on Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:12 am

SolydK will be the larger one, mainly due to the fact that KDE 4.11.1 is included this month, so that probably explains that one away. Unusually large, I imagine. I stand to be corrected though.
Registered Linux user #557695
CompTIA A+
Kwheezy , Lubuntu 14.04
Here's a snippet of real excitement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAPlnPtF ... 2cwvDhF-aw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QflahNQMOgM
excollier
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:31 pm
Location: Way off centre.

Linux Mint is funded by ads and donations.
 
PreviousNext

Return to Other Topics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest