This is unreal

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This is unreal

Postby loopofhell on Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:29 am

In the last month of using Linux mint I've installed and re-installed about 7 times. I swear I must spend more time trying to make things work on Linux mint then I do on actual work which is web design. Like for example today I login and the update manager says I have 178 updates. 178 updates for real? I didn't log in for 2 days and there's 178 updates. Anyways I digress so am I expected to sit there and read the details of each individual update to make sure it doesn't break any of my packages or the whole freaking operating system.

End result of all this is I can't log in just into shell. I get the error message that there's no X session, no window manager, no usr/bin folder...the list can just go on. I'm just going off the top of my head. I think I'll just go back to windows cause honestly I spend my nights since I started using linux trying to find answers for retarded problems. I don't care what anyone says but the way updates are handled in Linux mint is totally retarded. Here's a simple question I can't find the answer to. Where is the orginal sources list for LMDE? Shouldn't that be info that's on the download page for LMDE. As brilliant as some things are in Linux some things they just don't get. Like your smarter if you can do something the harder way and waster 3 hours of your time when you can do the same thing in 20 mins. IDK sorry to vent but after my eight install I've had about enough of Linux and the big mystery hunts I have to go on when I get error messages which lead to more error messages and continues on. It's retarded.

Like really I'm going to go read over the 178 updates, cross reference them, make sure they will co-exist with my current ones. Are you kidding me. I should just quit my job to make sure my Linux pc works.
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Re: This is unreal

Postby altair4 on Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:24 am

If you plan on using Linux as a platform to do real work choosing the default LMDE was probably not the best choice. It points to Debian Testing repositories and it is exactly what it sounds like. Mint tries to mitigate the inherent unpredictability of using the Testing repositories with it's Update Pack mechanism but ....

Perhaps the main edition Mint offerings would have been a better choice especially the LTS version which has a longer support cycle. Or pointing LMDE to the "stable" debian repositories.
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Re: This is unreal

Postby monkeyboy on Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:51 am

" I think I'll just go back to windows cause honestly I spend my nights since I started using linux trying to find answers for retarded problems."

Enjoy Windows, many folks find it to be a fine OS. Enjoy
If you don't like it, make something better
If you can't make something better, adapt
If you can't do either ball your panties up and cry

If you can't make it work maybe you are making it fail.
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Re: This is unreal

Postby igor83 on Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:15 pm

LMDE is not the distro for you. Judging by what I've seen on these forums, I think LMDE is risky when it comes to updates. LMDE is really for advanced users who understand the potential pitfalls and can surf their way around the command line and recover in the event something goes awry... although one could simply turn updates off, depending on how much of a concern internet security is...

I've often felt that the download page here and elsewhere should provide a tutorial for the many who just don't know which variation to download. I downloaded probably all of them before I found the ones I like, the Xfce and KDE flavors. The Xfce and KDE flavors should usually give you few problems, and you will compute basically the same as in Windows, but Mate and Cinnamon are okay too, just not my particular brand of tea.

Discard your LMDE. Install Linux Mint Xfce, if you have an older computer, of if you have anything more than a dual-core cpu and > 4 gigs of ram, and like a very sophisticated and fancy Windowed environment, Linux Mint KDE. Choose 64 bit if your system has > 4 gigs of ram or may one day have > 4 gigs of ram, or 32 bit if you intend your system to remain at or below 4 gigs of ram. Actually I read an article today that persuaded me 64 bits is the way to go if you have a 64 bit cpu.
Last edited by igor83 on Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
My desktop runs 64-bit Kubuntu 13.04, my htpc runs 64-bit Linux Mint Nadia Xfce, my answering machine runs 64-bit windows 7, and my laptop runs 64-bit Linux Mint Nadia KDE. Each seems suited to its purpose.
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Re: This is unreal

Postby Crewp on Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:42 pm

loop, give the Main version of Linux Mint a try before you jump ship, I think also it would suit you better.
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Re: This is unreal

Postby MALsPa on Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:31 pm

loopofhell wrote:I should just quit my job to make sure my Linux pc works.

:lol:
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Re: This is unreal

Postby xfrank on Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:53 pm

igor83 wrote:LMDE is not the distro for you. Judging by what I've seen on these forums, I think LMDE is risky when it comes to updates. LMDE is really for advanced users

+1
LMDE is for medium/advanced users with enough time to fix, adjust and correct problems. It is not too difficult to manage in "normal" time, but when the big updates comes, it needs some efforts to fix breakages. For example, it took me one week to figure how to fix the broken system fonts.
I suggest too to use Mint LTS instead (I have it in a netbook, is very stable and easy).
Linux: Mint13 (Xfce), LMDE (Mate), Peppermint (LXDE), Manjaro (Xfce), Point Linux (Mate)
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Re: This is unreal

Postby Monsta on Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:10 pm

igor83 wrote:Judging by what I've seen on these forums, I think LMDE is risky when it comes to updates. LMDE is really for advanced users who understand the potential pitfalls and can surf their way around the command line and recover in the event something goes awry...
xfrank wrote:LMDE is for medium/advanced users with enough time to fix, adjust and correct problems. It is not too difficult to manage in "normal" time, but when the big updates comes, it needs some efforts to fix breakages.

Exactly.
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Re: This is unreal

Postby Zill on Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:02 pm

loopofhell: As others have pointed out, LMDE is not for everyone. The Linux Mint Blog states the following...
LMDE requires a deeper knowledge and experience with Linux, dpkg and APT.
Debian is a less user-friendly/desktop-ready base than Ubuntu. Expect some rough edges.

You may also find the following article of interest... Linux is Not Windows

I suggest that you establish exactly what you want from an OS and then install the one most closely matching your requirements, be it Windows, Mac or another Linux distro. Good luck.
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Re: This is unreal

Postby samriggs on Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:41 pm

arrgghhh first time user going for LMDE and screaming at the linux world it doesn't work out of the box, :roll:
Lucky he didn't try arch :lol:

to find the lmde repos just type in lmde repo or lmde repository into google you'll have it in two seconds if not sooner.
you never used linux before why the heck are you starting with LMDE when it warns you it's not for the novice then screaming at the linux world for it not working like you expected?
By the way once it's set up it's great and there is really not much you need to do afterwards (including reinstalling unless you break it beyond repair).

Use the main edition for crying out loud, it's easier to install and easier to run and installs actually easier then windows does from what I heard (I haven't used windows in years so I wouldn't know and don't really care to know about windows).
But don't go screaming at the linux world if you try to use a more experienced edition when you have no experience using linux, just doesn't make sense.
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Re: This is unreal

Postby loopofhell on Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:26 pm

MALsPa wrote:
loopofhell wrote:I should just quit my job to make sure my Linux pc works.

:lol:


lmao I'm glad someone got that joke and that just made my day lol
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Re: This is unreal

Postby loopofhell on Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:41 pm

samriggs wrote:arrgghhh first time user going for LMDE and screaming at the linux world it doesn't work out of the box, :roll:
Lucky he didn't try arch :lol:

to find the lmde repos just type in lmde repo or lmde repository into google you'll have it in two seconds if not sooner.
you never used linux before why the heck are you starting with LMDE when it warns you it's not for the novice then screaming at the linux world for it not working like you expected?
By the way once it's set up it's great and there is really not much you need to do afterwards (including reinstalling unless you break it beyond repair).

Use the main edition for crying out loud, it's easier to install and easier to run and installs actually easier then windows does from what I heard (I haven't used windows in years so I wouldn't know and don't really care to know about windows).
But don't go screaming at the linux world if you try to use a more experienced edition when you have no experience using linux, just doesn't make sense.


Oh buddy I've tried a lot so far. LMDE was the last on the list. First off I went with Linux Mint XFCE which had minor issues such as interface changing randomly upon login and logging out but that wasn't a deal breaker. The other distros I tried before arriving to LMDE are:

Linux Mint 15 KDE
Linux Mint 15 Olivia
Fedora(which I had high hopes for but I just couldn't dig it)
Debian(which I liked but again a little bit above my level at this point)
Crunchbang

Currently using Crunchbang on my netbook and I love it. Lightweight minimal distro with add-ons like conky and openbox window manager is great. I have had no issues at all with it so.

igor83 wrote:LMDE is not the distro for you. Judging by what I've seen on these forums, I think LMDE is risky when it comes to updates. LMDE is really for advanced users who understand the potential pitfalls and can surf their way around the command line and recover in the event something goes awry... although one could simply turn updates off, depending on how much of a concern internet security is...


This is very true. I guess I thought my web development skills would somehow magically be able to deal with the potential pitfalls of LMDE which in hindsight makes no sense. The reason I went with LMDE is after a month of mucking around with other distros reading books and forums I wanted a secure distro which Debian is said to be pretty secure. I liked Linux mint orginal and liked the security of Debian so at the time it seemed a perfect fit.

So I guess it's go go gadget re-install time? I'm basically looking for a secure system that's easy to update but yet at the same time has good security and with the right know how you can extend the security. Fedora seemed liked the right choice for that I just hated a lot of things about it. Like the Yum installer for example but then again I didn't give Fedora more than two hours of my time. Also a system with a good base of packages for web development, programming, networking and just generally fun stuff :)

Thanks for the advice
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Re: This is unreal

Postby MALsPa on Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:17 pm

loopofhell wrote:Currently using Crunchbang on my netbook and I love it. Lightweight minimal distro with add-ons like conky and openbox window manager is great. I have had no issues at all with it

Interesting -- glad to read someone else's take on CrunchBang, thanks. Especially someone who's fairly new to Linux. I recently installed CrunchBang here and I'm impressed and kinda surprised at how good it is. Very easy installation, and everything seems very nice.

You said:

loopofhell wrote:I'm basically looking for a secure system that's easy to update but yet at the same time has good security and with the right know how you can extend the security.

For that, it seems to me that just about any Linux distro would do, especially, like you said, "with the right know how."

You also said:

loopofhell wrote:Also a system with a good base of packages for web development, programming, networking and just generally fun stuff

So, why not stick with CrunchBang, then? With everything from the Debian repos available, wouldn't that give you everything you're looking for?
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Re: This is unreal

Postby loopofhell on Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:35 am

Yeah that's basically the same conclusion I came to as well. In the 3 weeks of using it have had no issue and I would consider myself a fairly new linux user(lesss than a month). Also like you said the packages are available there as well being that Crunchbang is based on Debian. I think one day someone should make a distro called SheBang. :lol:
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Re: This is unreal

Postby Zill on Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:47 am

loopofhell wrote:Yeah that's basically the same conclusion I came to as well. In the 3 weeks of using it have had no issue and I would consider myself a fairly new linux user(lesss than a month). Also like you said the packages are available there as well being that Crunchbang is based on Debian...

I am pleased that you have found CrunchBang to be a distro you are comfortable with. :)

However, you should be aware that CrunchBang (Waldorf) is based on Debian Stable (Wheezy) and, as such, the packages are older than those from Debian Testing (Jessie). As the Debian release cycle is quite slow, this means that CrunchBang Waldorf will steadily get more dated, compared with other Linux distros such as Linux Mint or Ubuntu.

As Waldorf ages, you may be tempted to upgrade packages/repos to those from Debian Testing, but I really would not recommend this for a newbie as there is a very strong risk of system breakage if you don't fully understand the usage of package management tools such as apt-get and pinning.

So, if you are happy just to have a good solid stable release then default CrunchBang Waldorf is ideal. However, if you wish to have more up-to-date packages then another distro may be more suitable.
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Re: This is unreal

Postby MALsPa on Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:12 am

Zill wrote:So, if you are happy just to have a good solid stable release then default CrunchBang Waldorf is ideal. However, if you wish to have more up-to-date packages then another distro may be more suitable.

I'm one of those who is "happy just to have a good solid stable release," but for others, SolydXK (based on Debian Testing) might be a nice option.
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Re: This is unreal

Postby js3915 on Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:29 am

loopofhell wrote:So I guess it's go go gadget re-install time? I'm basically looking for a secure system that's easy to update but yet at the same time has good security and with the right know how you can extend the security. Fedora seemed liked the right choice for that I just hated a lot of things about it. Like the Yum installer for example but then again I didn't give Fedora more than two hours of my time. Also a system with a good base of packages for web development, programming, networking and just generally fun stuff :)

Thanks for the advice


What Desktop Enviroment of Fedora did you try?

I found the KDE spin of fedora a lot better than the GNOME.
Last edited by js3915 on Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: This is unreal

Postby Zill on Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:31 am

MALsPa: Agreed!

SolydXK is an excellent distro but it does have some risk from the monthly upgrades which (almost!) keep track with Debian Testing. Inexperienced users could have occasional problems with this and so I wouldn't recommend SolydXK for a production system and/or a Linux newbie.
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Re: This is unreal

Postby MALsPa on Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:49 am

Zill wrote:SolydXK is an excellent distro but it does have some risk from the monthly upgrades which (almost!) keep track with Debian Testing. Inexperienced users could have occasional problems with this and so I wouldn't recommend SolydXK for a production system and/or a Linux newbie.

Hm. Yeah, that's why I've never been too crazy about the idea of distros based on Testing (LMDE, for example). As some Debian users will say, "There's a reason why it's called Testing!" I haven't tried SolydXK myself, but my understanding was that they were doing a better job of bringing in the upgrades than what's been happening with LMDE, I can see where it could still be problematic.
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Re: This is unreal

Postby MALsPa on Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:52 am

js3915 wrote:I found the KDE spin of fedora a lot better than the GNOME.

I thought so, too -- to some degree, at least. I ran Fedora from F14 thru F18 and alternated between KDE and GNOME with each release. But I still thought Fedora with GNOME was pretty good.
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