<DECIDED> LMDE to be based on Stable, not on Testing.

[GeneC]

Yes, I have to agree about Cinnamon...
(A good reason to bring XFCE back...)... I dont see what I propose happening at all. Just nostalgia on my part... I miss the OLD LMDE days.. Things were fun and exciting back then. I think lots of folks using Linux should have two distros installed. One very stable (Mint Main) for everyday use, and one a bit more experimental for fun, to learn, and to get involved in the community. An active community is everything.

Dual boot a 'Toyota Corolla' and a 'Ferarri 458' (as a 'gearhead' analogy)....

[killer de bug]

Hm. I might have to eat my earlier words Apparently Debian stable release have a shorter support cycle than Ubuntu LTS releases? (http://raphaelhertzog.com/2014/07/16/sp ... to-ubuntu/) That's not ideal for users looking for a low maintenance solution.

2 years as stable and 1 years as old-stable is more than enough to follow Ubuntu LTS. Basically Cinnamon will be changing its GTK base every 2 years. So no need of 5 years of support here.

Advantage of Debian based distro:
- lighter
- No Canonical layer
- No ppa
- No need to reinstall.

[KBD47]

I agree, 2 years for full upgrades is probably good for most users. Applications get long in the tooth after a couple of years. Servers is a different issue, they want 5 years so they don't have to upgrade.
I think 5 years only interests me if I'm installing it for someone else lol!

[killer de bug]

Yes, but it would be much easier for Mint to just return to LMDE tracking Debian Testing as it began and let the community (forum threads) handle issues. .

So you will join the Mint development team in order to work every day on tackling the issues coming from GTK for those who use Cinnamon? I mean for free and you need to react really quick... That's so kind of you

Remember: Cinnamon importance is over LMDE importance... There is no point of having LMDE if you can't use THE Linux Mint desktop.

[GeneC]

^ You seem to have missed my reference to letting the community handle issues, not the devs. as it was in the 'old days.. This would free them up more than switching to stable. Then I said I knew this would never happen..

Yes, Cinnamon is the main issue.. But again as I said if the gtk issues could be overcome (NO reliance on gtk, at all, if possible, change to qt..??..).

I am not a developer or coder, just an avid user...

[Crewp]

I vote yes to Stable, it will give Clem and the dev's more time to refine the OS, Mint tools, Cinnamon etc. LMDE is fine OS right now, but with more time and resources it will be even better.

[killer de bug]

Yes, Cinnamon is the main issue.. But again as I said if the gtk issues could be overcome (NO reliance on gtk, at all, if possible, change to qt..??..).

Qt come on

I'm sure someone will fork GTK one day. As a reaction to the constant changes by Gnome team...

[kurotsugi]

But again as I said if the gtk issues could be overcome

moving to qt would leave same problem. now we have qt5. the transition seems quite rough on KDE community. porting the code also doesn't seems possible since cinnamon is highly dependend on GTK.

anyway, the solution is actually quite easy. LMDE cinnamon haven't got updated since latest UP (february). simply build the latest version with the latest dev toolkit. do you remember our mint 17? it has new shiny good looking cinnamon now and fully working with new GTK. it means that the problem is actually not as scary as we thought. the issue of incompability of cinnamon with GTK is lil bit overrated. GTK is simply a dev toolkit :3

[abickerton]

As of 03/14; LMDE is, for all intents, debian stable (stale). Nothing highlights the state of affairs more than the version of the nvidia drivers . I'd much rather see it really track testing, at least then there would be some point to the update mechanisms.

[Old.Coot]

I'm not a techie. But I am a former Debian user. I voted yes on the poll above; however, it wasn't an unqualified yes.

I started with Debian 5 at the end of its life cycle. Stayed through Debian 6. Learned a lot. And ended up rolling my own, so to speak. Problem was that I really didn't know enough to get the system I wanted. When 6 ended and my favorite Gnome desktop was no more, I tried a dozen or so alternatives. Couldn't make myself like any of them. Moved to 7 with xfce. Still couldn't like it. Worse, no DVDStyler, a program I used heavily. Well, 6 had not supported pysolfc and I worked around that. I thought I could work around this as well. Didn't happen. That's my qualification: Debian stable does not always support some programs I use.

So I moved to Jessie. DVDStyler worked great. Found Mate and loved it. Then some daily update hosed my system. That's when I moved to LMDE. It works. No heavy load of updates everytime I turn on the computer. Mate works and looks great. I can get my video programs and the few - but important - games I play to work.

I'm old. I'm tired. I'll take stability every time.

Old.Coot

<signature to be replaced by something funny or profound, if ever I think of something.>

[rbmorse]

I voted no.

Mint Prime for those who need a stable environment, LMDE if you're looking for more adventure.

[Bonsaii]

Nope!

I m extremely happy with the way it is and runs. I could not be happier.

And LMDE with Cinnamon made three people I know switch to linux.
Just looking at a Live-DVD/stick, being intrigued to play with it, then wanting it.

[daveinuk]

I also love my LMDE with cinnamon, got it on an old T61 Lenovo which i swap HDD's with as I have a spare, also with LM17 cinnamon, I'm hard pressed to tell the difference, didn't really get to grips with debian before this, but this is good, damned good . . . . . . .

[Distro-Don]

I understand that if LMDE were based on stable and someone wanted to have it based on testing, all that they would have to do is change the repositories to testing and update. Too bad that doesn't work in reverse. That would solve everything in that case.

[Incurian]

I'm new to Linux, but as this is more a philosophical question than a technical one, I'm going to comment anyway.

... Mint Prime for those who need a stable environment, LMDE if you're looking for more adventure.

It seems to me that this is incorrect (I say this respectfully). If you check out the Linux Mint About Page, there's no mention of adventure or cutting edge updates, it's about stability and ease of use. I think if one is looking for an adventure, one should just try out Debian proper or Arch. I think Linux Mint is for the guy who just wants his computer to work (correct me if I'm wrong), because there's already other well established options for those with different concerns.

I haven't been here long, but the prevalant theory that LM is hedging its bets with LMDE in case Ubuntu goes sour seems logical and reasonable. More so than the schizophrenic goal of simultaneously developing a safe and stable distro alongside a bleeding edge adventure distro.

And I question that notion that Cinnamon IS Mint. Is this the case? Is LM Main Edition just Cinnbuntu? Is LM just a front for a DE dev team? I thought there was more to it than that, but I'm new so I could very well be wrong. Also, is it just too difficult [even for the adventurous types] to get Cinnamon working on another distro for those who must have Cinnamon?

[xfrank]

It seems to me that this is incorrect (I say this respectfully). If you check out the Linux Mint About Page, there's no mention of adventure or cutting edge updates, it's about stability and ease of use. I think if one is looking for an adventure, one should just try out Debian proper or Arch. I think Linux Mint is for the guy who just wants his computer to work (correct me if I'm wrong), because there's already other well established options for those with different concerns.

I haven't been here long, but the prevalant theory that LM is hedging its bets with LMDE in case Ubuntu goes sour seems logical and reasonable. More so than the schizophrenic goal of simultaneously developing a safe and stable distro alongside a bleeding edge adventure distro.

And I question that notion that Cinnamon IS Mint. Is this the case? Is LM Main Edition just Cinnbuntu? Is LM just a front for a DE dev team? I thought there was more to it than that, but I'm new so I could very well be wrong. Also, is it just too difficult [even for the adventurous types] to get Cinnamon working on another distro for those who must have Cinnamon?

good points. LMDE is not for experiments or to be adventurous with Linux. For that, there is Debian Sid or Arch. LMDE, as Main-Mint, is about stability first, with some advantages compared to the Main branch (lighter, no-Ubuntu, semirolling). Accordingly, is understandable that would be based on Debian Stable.

And about Cinnamon, of course, this is not the only DE or "the" privileged DE in Mint. Mate is also of priority. Moreover, Mate tends to have less problems than Cinnamon.

[kurotsugi]

LMDE is historically born for those adventurer and bleeding edge enthusiast. for those who want a stable system we have mint main version. LMDE didn't created so that we can have Mint+Debian. it was created so that we could have Mint+rolling release+bleeding edge. that's why it is using debian testing as the base and originally developed as fully rolling release distro. AFAIK the decision to have debian testing as the base was also decided later because on certain aspect it debian testing is better than using arch or other rolling release distro. after a while, the UP system got introduced as compromise between stability and bleeding edge but we keep the adventurous and bleeding edge side of LMDE as LMDE+testing and LMDE+sid. later it turns out that managing LMDE with UP system is too much for mint team to handle. that's why they want to drop it and move it into debian stable so that they could focus on something else.

[killer de bug]

And about Cinnamon, of course, this is not the only DE or "the" privileged DE in Mint. Mate is also of priority. Moreover, Mate tends to have less problems than Cinnamon.

And I question that notion that Cinnamon IS Mint. Is this the case? Is LM Main Edition just Cinnbuntu? Is LM just a front for a DE dev team?

Cinnamon, on the contrary of MATE, is developped by the Linux Mint Team. They spend most of their time on it. That's their project, their baby...
Reducing Linux Mint to an Ubuntu + Cinnamon on the other hand is an offense. Linux Mint is much more than just Ubuntu + a DE...

Also, is it just too difficult [even for the adventurous types] to get Cinnamon working on another distro for those who must have Cinnamon?

Yes it is. Unless you use Ubuntu of course (14.04, I do not guaranty anything with the next releases...). GTK version should be the same on your system than the one used to create Cinnamon. Basically GTK is one of the main component of Gnome 3 and Cinnamon is a shell for Gnome 3 (let's say it what you see). GTK is modified by the Gnome team every 6 months which basically broke Cinnamon every 6 months. Good news is: Linux Mint has just frozen its base for the next 2 years and the team will be able to focus on the development of new features without having to repair the problems coming from this new GTK. Time well spent

Ubuntu and Linux Mint at the moment use an old version of GTK for Cinnamon 2.2.
Debian testing, Arch,... use a more recent version of GTK (there are more bleeding edge) and as a result Cinnamon is not working on them. To the best of my knowledge almost all the distro who were offering Cinnamon stopped this.

[xenopeek]

Debian testing, Arch,... use a more recent version of GTK (there are more bleeding edge) and as a result Cinnamon is not working on them. To the best of my knowledge almost all the distro who were offering Cinnamon stopped this.

I've run Cinnamon 2.2 on Arch Linux with GNOME 3.12 installed. I think you got it the wrong way around. Distros that have too old a Gtk version can't run the current Cinnamon version.

[killer de bug]

I've run Cinnamon 2.2 on Arch Linux with GNOME 3.12 installed.

Yeah I have read it was possible this time. But in the past it was never like this, and it doesn't mean it will be like this with GTK 3.14.

I think you got it the wrong way around. Distros that have too old a Gtk version can't run the current Cinnamon version.

This is the first version not backported to older GTK. It's a choice by the team.

Nevertheless, it's the constant breakages with new GTK version who make disappear Cinnarch for example. Impossible to maintain. Too many packages had to be pinned...