What's with the hate for Gnome Shell? Give it a chance!

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Re: What's with the hate for Gnome Shell? Give it a chance!

Postby jeffreyC on Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:11 am

The last time I used Gnome, not just tried a live CD or DVD was Ubuntu 5.10, since then it has been Xfce or a window manager.
With this kind of design I will not be going back.
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Re: What's with the hate for Gnome Shell? Give it a chance!

Postby Silent Warrior on Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:52 pm

Heh, speaking of breaking the desktop, I just broke Gnome 3/Shell. :wink: I guess that's enough of testing that thing, for me.

I can kind of understand what the author of that article means, though. While I could manage without min-/maximize-buttons, the shutdown-option was a remarkably heavy loss. I had to log out, and shut down from the display manager. Well, since I fell back to KDM when GDM got... a bit too funky from the experimentation, I'd probably have to do that anyway, but still. Maybe not a deal-breaker, but the likelyhood of me adopting Gnome Shell will increase markedly with an option to shutdown completely from inside Gnome...
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Re: What's with the hate for Gnome Shell? Give it a chance!

Postby misGnomer on Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:56 pm

Neither Gshell or Canonical's "unity" are for me. Why should I "give it a chance (!)" if it restricts the way I work? Just because some of the developers use to work on previous "traditional" versions?? Hate? Come on.

I have a feeling that both are initiatives to spurn current users in order to hopefully appeal to a new OEM preload clientele (and I'd buy one too to avoid the ms tax). But regardless of the motives...

GNOME 2.x will be maintained as long as there's a need and will and someone's planning a fork too. XFCE has developed into a capable "mini-GNOME" and then there are the Qt-based options...

Back in the early 2.x days the GNOME developers had another "we know better" (aka "let's remove all options!") period. Some of those guys don't like their most committed users much! :lol:

So I'm not worried. Some of the new baby-UI stuff ideas/code will percolate down to established GNOME. Apps, the important thing, will continue working etc.

PS. I'm sure there's a market for the simplified UIs as well. Just that I'm not one of them.
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Re: What's with the hate for Gnome Shell? Give it a chance!

Postby /Zoran\ on Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:56 am

Silent Warrior wrote:Heh, speaking of breaking the desktop, I just broke Gnome 3/Shell. :wink: I guess that's enough of testing that thing, for me.

I can kind of understand what the author of that article means, though. While I could manage without min-/maximize-buttons, the shutdown-option was a remarkably heavy loss. I had to log out, and shut down from the display manager. Well, since I fell back to KDM when GDM got... a bit too funky from the experimentation, I'd probably have to do that anyway, but still. Maybe not a deal-breaker, but the likelyhood of me adopting Gnome Shell will increase markedly with an option to shutdown completely from inside Gnome...


Hit ALT while you have the dropdown menu under your name open, and you will get you the shutdown option....
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Re: What's with the hate for Gnome Shell? Give it a chance!

Postby Redondo on Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:43 pm

dawgdoc wrote:
jeffreyC wrote:I saw this and it makes me glad I use Xfce

http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/gnome-3.html

What do you think of his conclusion? I am willing to switch to Gnome 3, but I have some of the same reservations re: right click, multiple windows in focus, etc.
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At first I didn't think much of the article, then on second look it makes a whole lot of sense. After Ubuntu fix numerous errors in unity/compiz it started working great for me. Then truth stepped in. I have a favorite game , breakout2, that I run on Mint9, Ubuntu Lucid, that works great and fast. Under Unity its a joke. Jerky movements, slow, etc. And yes I have tried and installed[not at the same time], all the drivers available. I have an nvidia video. The only way I can get breakout2 to work under natty, is to call up classic desktop with all effects removed! I haved tried Gnome2/GS. It uses uses Mutter, Window Manager, I'm told. Maybe faster. Time or install will tell.

Also, could it be Compiz that's my problem. phoronix thinks so. Read this article.
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Re: What's with the hate for Gnome Shell? Give it a chance!

Postby Silent Warrior on Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:38 pm

Zoran: Ah, thanks! I'm still not happy that the option isn't there "without cheating", but it's always something.
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Re: What's with the hate for Gnome Shell? Give it a chance!

Postby Dr.m0x on Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:17 pm

Can you still have desktop effects like compiz in gnome 3?
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Re: What's with the hate for Gnome Shell? Give it a chance!

Postby autocrosser on Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:04 am

Dr.m0x wrote:Can you still have desktop effects like compiz in gnome 3?


In a word----No....At least as far as Gnome3/Gnome-Shell & I think it will take a bit of work to get it to work in "Classic" Gnome3--the libraries have changed quite a bit & Gnome has gone with Mutter/Clutter for desktop acceleration. GTK3 is a major re-write also.

So there will be a major break for about a year or so until things get sorted out...I do hope the user base will make enough "noise" that Gnome devs will have to listen....up to now they have been rather one-way about design & carry-thru with the project.
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Re: What's with the hate for Gnome Shell? Give it a chance!

Postby AlbertP on Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:18 am

Ubuntu's Unity continues to use the current Compiz desktop effects, while Gnome Shell cannot use it.
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Re: What's with the hate for Gnome Shell? Give it a chance!

Postby Bit Mad on Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:17 am

I tried the One-App-At-A-Time approach with Ubuntu Netbook Remix (tried a USB stick boot-up out of curiosity - I still love Mint 7 on my netbook).

I hated it. How do you drag-n-drop files from one folder to another when you can only see one folder at a time?! :roll:

I'm not worried though. I'll keep on using Mint as long as it suits my needs with a taskbar and files/shortcuts on the desktop. If that ever goes away, I'll switch to another Mint that still allows it, or move on elsewhere. Some distro somewhere is bound to still provide the good old desktop computing metaphor I've been accustomed to ever since Win 95 :mrgreen:

I can't imagine ever being happy sitting at a desktop PC trying to be productive using a dumbed-down interface designed for tablets or smartphones :P
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Re: What's with the hate for Gnome Shell? Give it a chance!

Postby autocrosser on Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:07 am

The thing I'll point out is that Gnome3 is "mostly" written in XML & will be fairly easy to mod/write apps for--Unity is locked up rather tight & is a pain in the **s to work with...I have posted elsewhere that once the code for Gnome3 is "stable"---there will be a rush to hack/mod/customize to allow all kinds of actions.....Give it a year or so to settle down & I bet we will see a very different Gnome3.

While this is happening...Gnome2 is still available---so when 3 looks like it will work for you---make the change. I'm in early. so I can get some of the changes done.
"Let's nobody be dead today----Looks very bad on my report" One of my favorite lines from AVATAR :)
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Re: What's with the hate for Gnome Shell? Give it a chance!

Postby tdockery97 on Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:01 pm

Yes, as autocrosser said, as soon as Gnome 3 is being used more widely there will be no shortage of hacks, patches, etc. that will allow you to get back the old Gnome 2.x functionality.
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Re: What's with the hate for Gnome Shell? Give it a chance!

Postby t3g on Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:05 pm

I guess we will have to see how the releases of Gnome 3 and Ubuntu 11.04 in April change or reaffirm your viewpoints on Gnome Shell and Unity.

Are they the future of the Linux desktop pushing it more into modern times with Windows 7 and Mac OSX? Will it entice more people to give Linux a try? If so, will the Linux community at large be stubborn and go back to what is comfortable for them? Its no secret that computer people (especially older ones) are stubborn to change and are quite vocal about it while the younger group is more willing to give things a try.

If both Gnome Shell and Unity are effective in addition to being great eye candy, then I am all for them.
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Re: What's with the hate for Gnome Shell? Give it a chance!

Postby AlbertP on Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:51 pm

Maybe in some years people will see Mint as outdated because it hasn't yet started using Shell/Unity.
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Re: What's with the hate for Gnome Shell? Give it a chance!

Postby autocrosser on Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:26 pm

I must point out that Linux is all about choice---Having Gnome2 available whilst Gnome3 is coming out is a good choice---"Forcing" users to accept Unity or revert to a non-accelerated desktop is a bad choice---I am very sure there will be a flood to E17, Fluxbox, KDE, XFCE & all the other managers just like when KDE came out with the 4.x series---In time Gnome3 will settle down & the users will come back when the feature-set meets with user-expectations. And on that note:

I have been testing Gnome3/Gnome-Shell for 2 years now---mainly because I like being on the "bleeding" edge (I use Sid & Experimental also)---but to help make the user experience better for everyone---There needs to be "normal" people (not that I am one of that group :shock: ) to provide feedback to the developers from a user POV....People need to step up & do the footwork....not just accept that "developers" know what they want/need---in most cases, they don't---they know what they want---but not what YOU want. If you don't like something---help change it.

Complain if you have done the work---not if you are just using the product of others labor.....Linux is, after all A TEAM EFFORT.

OK--my soapbox time is over :D
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Re: What's with the hate for Gnome Shell? Give it a chance!

Postby dawgdoc on Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:42 pm

While surfing OMGUbuntu I saw a proposal from an Ubuntu user regarding a design addition to the AWN taskbar to give it an option to appear as a panel.
“I think it would be a good option for all people who don’t like the new desktop style of Unity or Gnome Shell, which both don’t have a classic taskbar anymore.”

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/03/awn- ... ll-circle/
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Re: What's with the hate for Gnome Shell? Give it a chance!

Postby autocrosser on Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:06 am

dawgdoc wrote:While surfing OMGUbuntu I saw a proposal from an Ubuntu user regarding a design addition to the AWN taskbar to give it an option to appear as a panel.
“I think it would be a good option for all people who don’t like the new desktop style of Unity or Gnome Shell, which both don’t have a classic taskbar anymore.”

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/03/awn- ... ll-circle/



Hmmm---I think that is a good idea, I use AWN on all my installs (was a Mac user for far too many years and was involved with OSX testing)---I loved the dock concept when I first saw it in '99/'00 and have always made my panels look like docks---so when AWN became stable enough to use I changed to it and never looked back.....So getting more people to use it is a good thing.......

If you look at my screenshots in the Gnome3/Gnome-Shell thread, you will see AWN bottom-centre......I "know" that it defeats the idea of the Overlay function, but I tend to mouse to the bottom--never was a power-keyboard-shortcut kind of person :lol:
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