Considering switching back to mint 10, did I miss something?

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Considering switching back to mint 10, did I miss something?

Postby Neck on Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:04 am

Just a little background: I've been fiddling with linux since about ubuntu 5.04. I'm quite tolerant about hardware bugs since it's usually due to manufacturers, but in other hand if I have to battle with a program for it to do what it is supposed to I'll be annoyed.

So, I started with ubuntu, it started bloating up, switched to Mint, great exactly what I needed! Therefore decided to give debian edition a go, hoping to have cleaner base, more up to date softwares and save the big troubles every 6 months. However after a week of testing I must say I am rather disappointed, most of the programs I use are outdated and/or broken. Some of the most irritating:
-shutter is outdated (lacking useful function for hashed file names)
-gcalctool (calculator) is broken, missing hex/dec/oct conversion and no upgrade or downgrade available unless using experimental (year old bug: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=578187)
-wine is outdated (even dedicated repository is not maintained anymore it seems)

I'm rather puzzled about why a rolling distribution (especially its testing repositories) ships softwares older than ubuntu 10.04, did I miss something? Should I add extra repositories for updates? Or just stick to mint 10?
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Re: Considering switching back to mint 10, did I miss someth

Postby dbkblk on Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:17 am

I know Debian could be frustrating at start, but it is so much better than Ubuntu because it is lighter and stablier (and free :) ). Since you seem to want to change, i advise you to install Debian Squeeze (http://www.debian.org) with the "old versions" and to use the repository of LMDE. If you really always want the latest, don't go the Debian way. However, if you want something that works a long time ! Setup a good Debian and don't think about it for a long time. You can always use backports to have some specific software up-to-date (I use Iceweasel 4.0 and LibreOffice will arrive in Backports soon).

Use this sources.list
################################################
## squeeze
deb http://ftp.fr.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free

# squeeze security
deb http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main contrib non-free

## squeeze volatile
## Le dépôt volatile à changé, il est désormais sous "squeeze-updates"
deb http://ftp.fr.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-updates main non-free contrib

## squeeze multimedia
deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org squeeze main non-free

## backports
deb http://backports.debian.org/debian-backports squeeze-backports main contrib non-free
################################################

################################################
## Serveur Linux Mint Debian Edition
deb http://packages.linuxmint.com/ debian main upstream import
################################################


I don't use shutter, but i do think you can update it manually.
For the wine version, you can use the playonlinux repository:

wget -q "http://deb.playonlinux.com/public.gpg" -O - | apt-key add -
wget http://deb.playonlinux.com/playonlinux_squeeze.list -O /etc/apt/sources.list.d/playonlinux.list
apt-get update

However, i can't help you with gcalctool (but i don't think this is the only tool to do this, if you really have a bug).

Finally, software don't have the latest version, because it is certainly in debug state (experimental) before to go into Sid or Testing. I think that theses branches aren't good to use if you hope a stable up-to-date system. I sometime feel irritated by a small bug that happens with an update on testing and i decided to go back to Squeeze.
Well, "if it's not broken, don't fix it" or "the perfect is the ennemy of the good".

Don't get lost ^^
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Re: Considering switching back to mint 10, did I miss someth

Postby Imagus on Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:10 am

Neck wrote:-gcalctool (calculator) is broken, missing hex/dec/oct conversion and no upgrade or downgrade available unless using experimental (year old bug: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=578187)


I also removed the calculator that's shipped with LMDE and replaced it with Galculator.
The description in Synaptic reads:

galculator is a scientific calculator. It supports different number
bases (DEC/HEX/OCT/BIN) and angles bases (DEG/RAD/GRAD) and features
a wide range of mathematical (basic arithmetic operations, trigonometric
functions, etc) and other useful functions (memory, etc) at the moment.
galculator can be used in algebraic mode as well as in Reverse Polish Notation.

Hope this helps (somewhat). :)
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Re: Considering switching back to mint 10, did I miss someth

Postby TBABill on Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:10 pm

Neck wrote:Therefore decided to give debian edition a go, hoping to have cleaner base, more up to date softwares and save the big troubles every 6 months. However after a week of testing I must say I am rather disappointed, most of the programs I use are outdated and/or broken.

I'm rather puzzled about why a rolling distribution (especially its testing repositories) ships softwares older than ubuntu 10.04, did I miss something? Should I add extra repositories for updates? Or just stick to mint 10?


I'd recommend sticking to Mint 10. Your requirement is apparently the latest software versions, which Debian has never been known to have. Debian Testing is the base of the next Debian Stable, so newer versions do roll into the repo but only after clearing other hurdles. Ubuntu/Mint will be much quicker to get a new release out on the street and just deal with issues later, but Debian Testing is not a "release" and the software is placed there for the very purpose of thoroughly testing it until stable.

If you run Squeeze (currently Debian Stable) with LMDE on top of it, you can enable a backports repo to pull in newer apps, but you still will not end up with what you are hoping for with newly release software as soon as released to the public. Debian stable is that way for a very good reason....it stayed in testing long enough to have the bugs worked out. If Ubuntu worked out the bugs before releasing, it would similarly take as long to get a stable release (which is why Ubuntu 10.04/Mint 9 was based on testing instead of sid....to get more stability for their LTS).
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Re: Considering switching back to mint 10, did I miss someth

Postby Neck on Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:05 am

TBABill wrote:I'd recommend sticking to Mint 10. Your requirement is apparently the latest software versions, which Debian has never been known to have. Debian Testing is the base of the next Debian Stable, so newer versions do roll into the repo but only after clearing other hurdles. Ubuntu/Mint will be much quicker to get a new release out on the street and just deal with issues later, but Debian Testing is not a "release" and the software is placed there for the very purpose of thoroughly testing it until stable.

If you run Squeeze (currently Debian Stable) with LMDE on top of it, you can enable a backports repo to pull in newer apps, but you still will not end up with what you are hoping for with newly release software as soon as released to the public. Debian stable is that way for a very good reason....it stayed in testing long enough to have the bugs worked out. If Ubuntu worked out the bugs before releasing, it would similarly take as long to get a stable release (which is why Ubuntu 10.04/Mint 9 was based on testing instead of sid....to get more stability for their LTS).

Thanks for the advice (and everyone else in the thread too), I guess I will be going back to mint 10, debian does wonder on my server but not quite what I want for desktop.

I am not really wanting the top newest beta version of apps (although I would have expected something close in a testing version), however I fail to see why a fix committed a year ago is not included (http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepor ... =578187#15). Aren't software updates also released to address bugs, and therefore should be included in testing? If that's only in unstable which will later become testing and then stable... isn't that about 4-6years before a fix actually make his way to the stable version?
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Re: Considering switching back to mint 10, did I miss someth

Postby luis.nando on Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:27 am

I hope it is not too late, I used a workaround to get more updated packages on LMDE, of course loosing some of the stability, just follow the information I just posted on other thread:

http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=69783


Regards.
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Re: Considering switching back to mint 10, did I miss someth

Postby donec on Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:58 pm

dbkblk wrote:I know Debian could be frustrating at start, but it is so much better than Ubuntu because it is lighter and stablier (and free :) ).
I don't understand as far as I know Ubuntu is free as is Linux Mint. So what do you mean when you say Debian is free?
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Re: Considering switching back to mint 10, did I miss someth

Postby Neck on Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:23 am

luis.nando wrote:I hope it is not too late, I used a workaround to get more updated packages on LMDE, of course loosing some of the stability, just follow the information I just posted on other thread:

http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=69783


Regards.


This indeed looks like an interesting solution, simple but selective. I might give it a try :twisted: .
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Re: Considering switching back to mint 10, did I miss someth

Postby craigevil on Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:35 pm

If you need newer packages consider either running Debian Testing, Sid or a mixed system.

Debian User Forums • View topic - Howto: Set up and Maintain a Mixed Testing/Unstable System : http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=15612

If you need even newer apps it is simple enough to compile from source.

Debian User Forums • View topic - HowTo Build a Package from Source the Smart Way : http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=38976
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Re: Considering switching back to mint 10, did I miss someth

Postby Dr.m0x on Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:13 pm

If I need newer packages for a particular application, I enable the sid repository and pull them down, disabling it again after the update.

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