LMDE is it worth it for a PC user?

[zerozero]

In a way, LMDE demands more maintenance, things can break, usually they don't, but..., we should once in a while check the forum, we should at least every week do a clone-copy of the O.S., but then again, it's testing and we accepted it, or not?

[nunol]

LMDE is not my only OS so I am ok with some problems and I learn a lot about how to fix them.

[craig10x]

There is Mint 10 and Mint 9 LTS, stable, easy and boring an then there's LMDE, not so stable, not so easy but fun.

If you don't like LMDE breakages you can use Mint 10 or read the forum for news about LMDE upgrades/breakages for that day. Perhaps LMDE could have something like Debian weather.

You pretty much "nailed it" nunol
I may decide to re-install Mint 10 over the weekend...it may be boring but it is "peaceful to use"
For LMDE i find i sometimes need a lot of valium

[nunol]

Why don't you dualboot between Mint 10 and LMDE? This way you can have the best of both worlds.

Also, Mint weather would be nice: http://edos.debian.net/weather/

[wayne128]

There is Mint 10 and Mint 9 LTS, stable, easy and boring an then there's LMDE, not so stable, not so easy but fun.

If you don't like LMDE breakages you can use Mint 10 or read the forum for news about LMDE upgrades/breakages for that day. Perhaps LMDE could have something like Debian weather.

You pretty much "nailed it" nunol
I may decide to re-install Mint 10 over the weekend...it may be boring but it is "peaceful to use"
For LMDE i find i sometimes need a lot of valium

I have many partitions for Debian based and straight Debian

1. A few partitions for Stable

2. A few partitions for Testing

3. A few partitions for Sid

No trouble on any Stable
Most problematic on several Testing
Little trouble for Bleeding edge Aptosid tracking Sid, both kde and xfce which is currently running 4.8, this is the most unexpected pleasant surprise. haha

[craig10x]

Now that IS interesting...less problems on unstable then testing...you would think it would be the other way around...
I notice there were some power related updates this evening...it would be interesting to see if they correct my fan coming out loud and continously problem in the new kernel...i booted back into it and "fingers crossed"...

Still no fix yet for my touchpad problem (where the right click menu comes up sometimes when i tap the pad) hope the bug fixes in the kernel when they come down, will get that one fixed...doesn't do that in the previous kernel...

Yes...LMDE is certainly an "adventure"...
Good suggestion about the "dual booting"..i guess it is just that i prefer to have just one system on the computer...If not for the ocassional annoying breakages, i do otherwise like LMDE...

The reason i was attracted to the "rolling distro" concept is that i found i often wanted to install the next 6 month's edition of ubuntu or mint or whatever and figured that with this i could get away from that since the new features and applications come down WITHOUT having to re-install the system...

I never had any breakages when using standard distros like ubuntu or mint main edition like this though...

[lmintnewb]

On second thought might hold off for awhile too. With all the people having issues popping up in the forum lately. Or ...

Why don't you dualboot between Mint 10 and LMDE? This way you can have the best of both worlds.

Seems like some sound advice too.

Since it's kind of related, may as well ask here while there's an opportunity. With lmde, if someone uses the stable repos and only selectively updates other stuff. Is it poss to run it w/o these kinds of issues cropping up ?

I mean ... see so many people saying so many different things about lmde. Most saying it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. But then you see all these problems people are having with it too. Are those self inflicted problems ? Or does someone just have to accept they'll have to resolve issues if they want to run lmde ?

[craig10x]

no, they aren't self inflicted, they just come down that way, occasionally something breaks and it can be rather slow until a fix is sent down because it has to run through unstable again before they send it to testing...those kernel updates could take 10 days or even longer before we get them down here in LMDE...meanwhile you suffer with your breakages or start trouble shooting on your own...in other words "a royal pain in the a__"

a brief comment i saw in another forum..and quite appropriate:

Testing can be a pain in the behind when things break - which is why a mixed testing/unstable system is preferable in my opinion. That way you can pull an updated package in when needed.

Newbies should stick with stable though. If you're not prepared for manual configuration/fixing, xserver breakage and various bugs, then you should never consider running testing or unstable.

My comment again: he's right but the problem with stable is although it is stable, the packages can be really OLD...new stables only come out every 2 years...

By the way, sometimes even in testing a package remains really old...good example is Chromium...they haven't sent down a new version of that to testing in like a YEAR...it is still in the 6.0 Range! Current stable Chromium and Chrome is in the 10.0 range...I had to download the deb file from google to stay current...

Ubuntu based edition (mint main) is far more trouble free then LMDE...no question about it...you really have to be very technically oriented and willing to spend a lot of time keeping it running totally smooth...or else live with various "bumps" for awhile now and again...

[lmintnewb]

Thanks for the input.

[rdonnelly]

My solution is, clone the partition once a month, then apply updates once a month. If it breaks I restore the clone, and hope things get better by next month. Mint 10 just don't compare to a working LMDE system.

Seems like a really intelligent approach to me. All the glowing comments about the debian releases, like the one's in your post. Drools ... much better than Mint 10 ? Yep, it's one of the debian releases in my near future. The Minty magic developers + Debian ? Drools some more ...

Confused, but you sound pro Main Edition? I can not say that the main edition is perfect either, I had some bad updates thrown at me in the past that caused breakage with the main edition, and I had to reinstall, and do a selective update to get around it. So they both can break, just the Debian gets 100x more updates which increases the risk of breakage. But the main edition can not match the super fast speed of Debian, and that goes for new or old hardware. Updates are a choice, that is why we can select repos based on different phases of testing and stable. BTW my LMDE is more up to date even with out an update in a month then the Main Edition is

[lmintnewb]

You seem to have the approach I'm looking for rdonnelly. That's about the conclusion I'd reached too. Seen people talking about debian based Mint releases they hadn't bothered to update in forever. Still running like greased lightning with no probs.

Linux newb atm. So still trying to get my head around all the options. Am definitely pro Mint + Debian. Don't know why, but just don't like ubuntu. The people behind it etc. Seems like success went to their heads or summin.

With the distancing themselves from debian and some of the stuff I'd read about them. Almost made it sound like they were kinda shuning linux in general. That is down right arrogant and ungrateful, imo.

Considering how much of ubuntu is supposed to be unchanged Debian. So want to make the switch not only cause of all the great things people are saying about what the Mint developers have done with their debian based stuff. But also cause I just don't like buntu. I could be totally wrong in that though.

Figure I'll get my feet wet with Mint 10 main and then make the switch in the near future. Follow your and other peoples lead in trying to figure out the best ways to keep things running smoothly w a minimum of breakage.

[craig10x]

Ah that is another factor...i call it "updateitis" You get updates like every single day...as rdonnelly said 100s more each week then you would with a fixed edition like mint main...so even when there is no breakage, every time you do it you think in the back of your mind: are these going to be ok?

Yep it's true you can have breakage in mint main, though i do have to say honestly, i ran ubuntu's 8.04 THRU ubuntu 10.04, Mint 8 through Mint 10 and other fixed distros and rarely had breakages, even when i activated all 5 levels of Mint main...

As far as debian being faster, haven't really noticed much difference in that regard...and my laptop is not very old (2 yr old toshiba/64 bit)...
I don't know, people often knock the ubuntu base of mint, but meanwhile, they already got the new kernel fixed and it's already in beta2 of the new ubuntu where as we are still waiting for fixes..it is because ubuntu has a huge staff and that type of stuff usually gets worked on and fixed FAST...

[ukbrian]

I just made this post which I think answers your original question http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502&start=340#p412981
LMDE is great & trouble free as long as you don't switch on levels 4/5 in Mint Update & don't do a "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" or update through Synaptic.

[craig10x]

I just made this post which I think answers your original question http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502&start=340#p412981
LMDE is great & trouble free as long as you don't switch on levels 4/5 in Mint Update & don't do a "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" or update through Synaptic.

Unfortunately though, by only using levels 1-3 on LMDE you may ultimately run into problems you may not for see at this point...so it may seem like the preferred way to go, it really isn't it...certain things you are not updating on levels 4 and 5 may ultimate wreck havoc on certain level 3 and less updates you make...

I just returned to Mint 10 Julia over the weekend, and it is where i will stay...it is really much more dependable then LMDE if you need a stable and pretty trouble free distro...i can see the difference right away...and it doesn't have all those rough edges that LMDE unfortunately still has at this point in time..

Again, i have to stress to the original poster, with LMDE you have to be much more technically involved in the system and expect occasionally breakages they may drive you a bit "batty"...i decided i would rather just have a stable easier to work with system...thus Mint 10 main edition...

[ukbrian]

Unfortunately though, by only using levels 1-3 on LMDE you may ultimately run into problems you may not for see at this point...so it may seem like the preferred way to go, it really isn't it...certain things you are not updating on levels 4 and 5 may ultimate wreck havoc on certain level 3 and less updates you make...

Could you explain/elaborate more fully these "problems you may not for see at this point..." please

[craig10x]

Well, i am not an expert with using direct debian but based on some feedback i got from "old time debian users"...there are certain things that get installed in levels 4 and 5 that may be necessary for certain updates you will be making in the future that come in at the lower levels you are currently updating to....and when that happens, breakage could result...so it isn't really "safer" to stay at levels 1-3...unfortunately, with a rolling distro, you have to take ALL updates and as Clem pointed out, the mint updater is only set to levels 1-3 in in LMDE because it has not as of yet been modified to work with debian (which requires all levels of updates)...

Clem's default of levels 1-3 in Mint was designed for ubuntu based versions and he set it that way for "newbies" to keep them a bit safer...
I enable all 5 levels even in Mint main because when i ran ubuntu directly, it did not have any "levels" in it's updater and i never had any real problems, so i am already accustomed to taking all updates...even on a normal (non-rolling) distro...

[ukbrian]

there are certain things that get installed in levels 4 and 5 that may be necessary for certain updates you will be making in the future that come in at the lower levels you are currently updating to....and when that happens, breakage could result

Sorry but I am no wiser,it's all still very vague, if's & buts, and I don't think any experience of Mint main is relevant to LMDE.

All I know from my personal experience on three machines is that LMDE as supplied by Clem and not played around with, tweaked, is stable and runs everything I have thrown at it, perhaps your experience is different, meantime I will wait for Clem to finish writing the code for Mint Update.

After Mint Update is completed and is up and running then it is my choice whether I want to use the buggy later Linux kernels or stick with a good stable OS which LMDE is now and I certainly won't be using the present later kernels on my laptop!

[craig10x]

no problem, ukbrian
i am just relating to you what i was told by experienced debian users, regarding the potential problems that can be induced on LMDE running at only the level 1-3 updates as it is currently defaulted to...perhaps some of those "seasoned debian users" will get on this thread and technically explain to you the reasons they believe this to be the case

[ukbrian]

no problem friend
If I am wrong or incorrect, or I have given bad advice in what I have said I really want to know and it will stop other users making the same mistakes as I might be doing.
I too would appreciate a learned Debian users opinion, all I know is that with that setup I have been recording/rendering videos which stress a machine with no problems and everything else runs well including Wine, Avidemux and Open Shot, so I'm a very well satisfied Mint LMDE user and would recommend the supplied version to any newcomer to computers or Linux.

Thank's a bundle for your time and effort Clem & Team

[zerozero]

Brian, just a quick example from a few hours ago:

viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502&p=413213#p413213