Future upgrades (Firefox 4, Skype 2.2, Gnome 3...) ?

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Future upgrades (Firefox 4, Skype 2.2, Gnome 3...) ?

Postby TinyTony on Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:58 pm

Hello,

I'd like to have a little more information on the policy and customs of Linux Mint (on their repositories) and Debian about software upgrades (change of software version). If I understood well, as LMDE is a rolling distro, we just have to wait and one day or another software version will change when being updated.

Linux Mint manages some software on his own repository, particularly Firefox. Does someone know if Linux Mint foresees to distribute soon Firefox 4 or if this won't be until a long time ? Same thing for Skype 2.2 (but less important ;)). I know it is easy to install those software with .deb files downloaded from the websites of editors, but this doesn't provides updates.

As I never used Debian, I don't know at which pace softwares go from experimental → unstable → testing. How long does it takes generally between the release by the editor of the software and its integration in testing ? I'm thinking for example about Gnome 3. BTW, I read for Linux Mint/Ubuntu that Gnome 3 will be integrated in the next release but using the good old gnome-panel instead of gnome-shell, will it be the case for LMDE ?

Last question, what if someone wants to stick to "old" software versions (e.g. Firefox 3.6, Gnome 2) and still wants to receive security updates ? Is it possible with LMDE ?

Those are just questions from someone that loves having new software, but is not enought intrepid to test really unstable things and can wait the "official" integration if it is not too long :)
Last edited by TinyTony on Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Future upgrades (Firefox 4, Skype 2.2, Gnome 3...)

Postby craigevil on Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:42 am

Skype has it's own repo, never saw the point of installing a .deb of Firefox, simply download from Mozilla, extract, and create a shortcut and you are good to go, plus it autoupdates any time Mozilla releases a new version no waiting for someone to build a .deb. Or just use Iceweasel.

$ apt-cache policy skype
skype:
Installed: 2.2.0.25-1
Candidate: 2.2.0.25-1
# Official site for latest version of Skype. http://wiki.debian.org/skype
# Direct file download http://www.skype.com/go/getskype-linux-beta-deb
# deb http://download.skype.com/linux/repos/debian/ stable non-free


$ apt-cache policy iceweasel
iceweasel:
Installed: 4.0-3
Candidate: 4.0-3
Version table:
*** 4.0-3 0
1 http://mirrors.kernel.org/debian/ experimental/main i386 Packages
Debian Sid KDE4.8.4 Kernel 3.4 Thinkpad R40 CPU Pentium M 1.3MHz RAM 2GB ATI Mobility 7500
Debian - "If you can't apt-get something, it isn't useful or doesn't exist"
Giant Debian sources.list | Debian upgrade script smxi | sysinfo script inxi
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Re: Future upgrades (Firefox 4, Skype 2.2, Gnome 3...)

Postby TinyTony on Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:47 am

craigevil wrote:Skype has it's own repo [...] simply download from Mozilla, extract, and create a shortcut and you are good to go, plus it autoupdates any time Mozilla releases a new version [...] or just use Iceweasel.

Ok, thanks for this answer and those easy workarounds.

Anyway, my question still stands, take it generally, not only for the examples I took, but for any software. How quick Linux Mint plans to upgrade software on his own repository ? How long does it takes generally for a software between its release and its integration in Debian Testing ? I asked as an example for Gnome 3, but it could be for Gimp (version 2.7.2 released, version 2.6 in Unstable and Testing), VLC (1.1.9 released and in Unstable, 1.1.7 in Testing...), etc.

Well, just to have a very rought estimate of the usual time. Between release and testing, is like two months ? six months ? One year ? Two years ? Depends a lot on the software ? On the mood of Debian testers ?

In fact (shame on me) I'm not really sure : does software go from Unstable to Testing at any time, or only when Testing becomes Stable ?

I'm really a total newbie here with Mint and Debian, and I'm just trying to figure out at what pace my new rolling distro will change :)
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Re: Future upgrades (Firefox 4, Skype 2.2, Gnome 3...) ?

Postby TinyTony on Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:06 am

Up.
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Re: Future upgrades (Firefox 4, Skype 2.2, Gnome 3...) ?

Postby gavinhc on Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:53 pm

TinyTony wrote:Well, just to have a very rought estimate of the usual time. Between release and testing, is like two months ? six months ? One year ? Two years ? Depends a lot on the software ? On the mood of Debian testers ?

In fact (shame on me) I'm not really sure : does software go from Unstable to Testing at any time, or only when Testing becomes Stable ?

I cannot give you an answer to all of your questions (because there isn't one clear answer for some of them), but I will try to answer what I can.

First off, software is migrated to the Debian testing repositories as it is ready to be. For some packages, this is as quickly as a couple weeks after release, for others we are using software that is months or even years old. There are a number of requirements that must be fulfilled before a package can make the trek from experimental to unstable to testing. The requirements (listed on the Debian website) are:
1. It must have been in unstable for 10, 5 or 2 days, depending on the urgency of the upload;
2. It must be compiled and up to date on all architectures it has previously been compiled for in unstable;
3. It must have fewer release-critical bugs than, or the same number as, the version currently in "testing";
4. All of its dependencies must either be satisfiable by packages already in "testing", or be satisfiable by the group of packages which are going to be installed at the same time;
5. The operation of installing the package into "testing" must not break any packages currently in "testing".

If there is a particular newer package version which you are looking for that is not in testing, it it likely that it is currently making its way through the Debian testing process. It may be held up because it has too many bugs or the package maintainers do not currently have the time to work on it (remember that most of the package maintainers are volunteers who do this during their free time). One way you can get a feel for how long it might take to make it to testing is this website, which will display the reasons why a particular package is not in testing yet.

In summary, there is almost no way to know exactly how long it will take for a package to make its way to the Debian testing repositories. It varies from package to package and version to version. All I can say is to be patient and everything will, eventually, make its way to testing.
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Re: Future upgrades (Firefox 4, Skype 2.2, Gnome 3...) ?

Postby DrHu on Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:07 pm

There is a problem when you let application developers update their own packages within a Linux distribution, in that there can be no vetting of the fit (within that distribution).

It seems it would always be best to wait for the Linux distributor to include that application, unless there is a good reason not to
--an example might be a new graphics card which needed a newer version of the driver for support of that card

Other applications would be usually just newer features and possibly some bug fixes; if that affects you, then upgrade, otherwise wait..
    I wouldn't worry about the time frame for updates, unless you feel it is really slow
    --such as between Debian releases; some people did complain about the waiting time, but did respect that Debian releases when ready, not just to seem current..
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Re: Future upgrades (Firefox 4, Skype 2.2, Gnome 3...) ?

Postby linuxviolin on Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:46 pm

TinyTony wrote:Linux Mint foresees to distribute soon Firefox 4 or if this won't be until a long time ?

As I said here (Sorry for copying myself but this question by the OP about Firefox 4 calls more or less the same answer... :?):

In Debian Firefox is Iceweasel. But currently Debian has the 4.0 version just in the Experimental repo. See at http://packages.debian.org/search?suite=all&section=all&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=Iceweasel So if you want it you can allow the Experimental repo in your package manager or just download the package and install it by hand. In this case you'll have to control the updates yourself, at least until the package be in the Testing repo.

It is incredible Debian has not yet the version 4 really available... in Fedora I have Firefox 4 since ages! Yet, I thought LMDE was a rolling release... :roll:
Last edited by linuxviolin on Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Future upgrades (Firefox 4, Skype 2.2, Gnome 3...) ?

Postby t3g on Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:39 pm

You can also get the latest Iceweasel (Firefox) and Icedove (Thunderbird) at http://mozilla.debian.net in various version numbers.
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Re: Future upgrades (Firefox 4, Skype 2.2, Gnome 3...) ?

Postby MestreLion on Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:10 am

Code: Select all
$ apt-cache policy skype
skype:
  Installed: 2.1.0.81-1
  Candidate: 2.1.0.81-1
  Version table:
     2.2.0.35-0maverick1 0
        500 http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/ maverick/partner amd64 Packages
 *** 2.1.0.81-1 0
        700 http://packages.linuxmint.com/ julia/import amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status


I dont have the Skype-dedicated repo, just the official Ubuntu one. What this "Version Table" mean? Looks like Skype 2.2 is already in maverick repo, so why Update Manager do not make it avaliable to install? Wasnt the update from 2.1.0.81 to 2.2.0.35-0 supposed to be automatic?

EDIT: Sorry, I just noticed im LMDE subforum.. have found this thread via google... sorry for hiijacking... using Linux Mint 10 Julia here... anyway, the question still stands: if APT knows there is a newer version, why doesnt Update Manager offer it?
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