Considering of switching to LMDE

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Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby vasilis_mint on Fri May 06, 2011 8:57 am

Hello everyone, new member here in the community!

First of all I have to say that I find Mint 10 (main edition) to be excellent, since it was my first experience with Linux! I installed it sometime in December and I enjoy it pretty much all the while finding very easy to toy with and rock solid! Still I consider myself to be a newbie and not particularly Linux savvy.

Anyway I ve been considering on moving to LMDE since I find the whole idea to be more intriguing , but I fear Debian will give me a hard time. I posted in order to ask you if there are differences between the main edition and the Debian one, and if you think that someone new in Linux can handle it! What new things do I need to learn in order to have a stable and functional system? What do I have to do differently than the main edition in order to have the functionality I want? Do I install programs the same way? What about PPAs and programs that I install outside of the main repos? (I use Clementine, for example)

I use my PC for regular day to day stuff and not anything admin related as you probably have guessed from all the above! Thanks!
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby aljoriz on Fri May 06, 2011 9:25 am

for the difference LMDE:

*MintUpdate does not work well thus you have to enable ALL LEVELS before using MintUpdate besides it is recommended to update/upgrade via terminal with the
Code: Select all
sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade


*Installing programs can be done via terminal and the software center

*Mint Debian does not download your proprietary video card drivers, you have to manually install them and firmware updates may break your proprietary driver settings.

*Updates may have bugs and it way takes days-weeks before a bug can be fixed by an update, which may introduce a new set of bugs (for this you are very welcome to post help in the forums)

Mint Main Edition is more stable than LMDE.
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby vasilis_mint on Fri May 06, 2011 9:35 am

Thanks! From my experience when I tried upgrading with sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade in the Main edition, it tried to install level 4 and 5 packages which are not installed by default in the update manager. Does that mean that upgrading through the terminal will install these unstable/unsafe packages as well? this question goes for lmde and the main edition as well.
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby aljoriz on Fri May 06, 2011 9:42 am

If you are using LMDE
sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade is totally recommended due to the rolling release nature of the debian

For Mint Main edition
You are discouraged to update via terminal as it will indeed install Lv1-5 updates which may cause harm as some updates may required updated dependencies thus you must use MintUpdate(MU) to update. I am not sure but I think sudo apt-get upgrade is ok within Mint Main but I have not really tried it so its only a wild guess on my part.

This causes many problems as people who use Mint Debian will update using MU. Seeing how stuff breaks and how fast it can be fixed and replaced with another bug is an amusing past time in Mint Debian. :lol:

one more thing PPAs? I have no experience using it in debian mint.
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby vasilis_mint on Fri May 06, 2011 10:01 am

Why not remove MU completely from the Debian Edition then until its good enough to be used?
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby aljoriz on Fri May 06, 2011 10:10 am

Only the developers can answer that .. I'm just an ordinary user :lol: In fairness Clem is trying his best to make MintUpdate more debian-centric maybe after Mint11 all will be fixed?
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby vasilis_mint on Fri May 06, 2011 10:23 am

With the turn Ubuntu is taking that would be a good decision! Canonical seems way too eager to adopt new concepts that are not yet fully stable and i think its brilliant on Clem's part to keep gnome 2 with lm11. My guess is this will result in many users migrating to Mint as from what i gather most people dont seem to like Unity
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby aljoriz on Fri May 06, 2011 10:26 am

try looking at www.distrowatch.com notice that as ubuntu's hits per day increases so does mint's hits per day :lol:
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby ukbrian on Fri May 06, 2011 10:50 am

Hi vasilis_mint congratulations on being a very forward thinking person, some folk like to hop from one distro to another but to me I don't want to spend time learning how to configure a distro and then jump to another, I consider that time wasted, I prefer to pick the right one first.

I started off on Ubuntu and I'm very grateful to them, however, after looking around at most of the distros available I decided to try LMDE as it was more/totally Debian based and looked more future proof.

I have no regrets after doing all the usual things like using level 4-5, sudo apt-get dist-upgrade, plus updating/upgrading with Synaptic but come to the conclusion that using Mint Update on level 1-3, the default, was how normal users were expected to use LMDE, levels 4-5 are for the testers.

Many testers disagree with me and say I will have problems in the future due to "dependency problems", all rather vague. I beg to differ and think once the level 4-5 updates have been proved to be trouble free they will be upgraded to level 1-3 and be available to default LMDE users but this is just my opinion.

I do have three default LMDE installs, two on desktops one on a laptop and all are running without any problems, The only problem you will encounter is with the first round of updates in Mint Update, you must clear all the check boxes and then just select the Mint updates, they are all on the top level 1.

You then reboot and install the rest but Mint Update freezes when installing gdms so just close the window reboot and when you click on Mint Update again you will get an error message which contains a command "sudo dpkg --configure -a" you need to paste into a terminal and then the update continues/finishes.

You also need to install "gstreamer0.10-gconf" with Mint Update as it's been omitted from all updates including dist-upgrade.
I made a video of installing LMDE into Virtualbox yesterday that only covers the basic install but not the updating which I'm going to do now and it will be available tomorrow.
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=72023

Once again congratulations to you for making a very wise decision. :D

PS Clementine 0.7.1-0.1 is available in Mint Update.
I use Foobar running under Wine because I like it's small footprint and it does everything I want, I just point at my music and select random tracks.
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby rizzeh on Fri May 06, 2011 11:10 am

vasilis_mint wrote:....What new things do I need to learn in order to have a stable and functional system? ....


first thing to learn is LDME is based on debian testing and it can not be stable by definition.
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby christoff522 on Fri May 06, 2011 11:22 am

I use some ubuntu ppas and they work fine FireFox stable (4.0) and wine with pulseaudio integration. Yeah there's a learning curve, some things may need tinkering to get them working, but apart from that its quicker than main edition! Just think...no more reinstalls! In 5 years it'll be the same system up to date. That's why you use lmde
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby Dr.m0x on Fri May 06, 2011 8:40 pm

It's very worth it. Out of the 20 or so distros I've used, lmde is the one I keep coming back to. True it's less stable than Debian stable but it's no worse, maybe more stable than a freshly released edition of ubuntu.

You will run into bugs and challenges and you will be forced to learn about linux the hard way irrespective of which distro you choose. It's just how open source is. The great thing about lmde is that while our community is smaller than ubuntu, it is full of helpful users.

Sent from my Gingerbread loaded Desire HD.
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby wayne128 on Fri May 06, 2011 9:02 pm

christoff522 wrote:I use some ubuntu ppas and they work fine FireFox stable (4.0) and wine with pulseaudio integration. Yeah there's a learning curve, some things may need tinkering to get them working, but apart from that its quicker than main edition! Just think...no more reinstalls! In 5 years it'll be the same system up to date. That's why you use lmde



I am not sure if no more install is really possible.
Remember Debian Testing had lots of upgrade, and upgrade can break system.

It is recommended to have the working LMDE partition 'cloned' to be some place such as another hard disk partition or USB hard disk, in the event that the upgrade break thing, you can get back the old working version from the last 'clone'.
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby craig10x on Fri May 06, 2011 9:36 pm

If you want very stable and reliable with little chance of any breakages, stay with Mint Main Edition...you are not going to have that with LMDE...
I ran with it for a few months but returned to Mint 10 main edition (much happier now)...got tired of the constant updates and always worrying that another breakage would soon be coming down the road...and some of these breakages can take a LONG TIME to get fixed...as a result you will often be scrambling to to figure out how to fix on your own (if it's possible)...if you like lots of tinkering though....go for it!

Personally, i prefer a more relaxing version like main edition :D
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby wayne128 on Fri May 06, 2011 9:47 pm

craig10x wrote:If you want very stable and reliable with little chance of any breakages, stay with Mint Main Edition...you are not going to have that with LMDE...
I ran with it for a few months but returned to Mint 10 main edition (much happier now)...got tired of the constant updates and always worrying that another breakage would soon be coming down the road...and some of these breakages can take a LONG TIME to get fixed...as a result you will often be scrambling to to figure out how to fix on your own (if it's possible)...if you like lots of tinkering though....go for it!

Personally, i prefer a more relaxing version like main edition :D



Alternatively when your LMDE is working to your requirement , to retain the speed advantge and not bother too much on possibility of breakage due to update via Testing repos, you could switch to Stable repos, there are very few updates on Stable
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby ukbrian on Sat May 07, 2011 4:17 am

Alternatively when your LMDE is working to your requirement , to retain the speed advantge and not bother too much on possibility of breakage due to update via Testing repos, you could switch to Stable repos, there are very few updates on Stable
When you run default LMDE with only levels 1-3 you have a very stable and fast distro based on testing but where the updates have all been thoroughly tested. Leave the testing of the level 4-5 to the pros who have the necessary skills to correct the many problems encountered.
When levels 4-5 have been tested and are proved safe they will be promoted to level 1-3 stable where mere mortals like you and I can safely update to them.
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby aljoriz on Sat May 07, 2011 4:41 am

ukbrian wrote:When you run default LMDE with only levels 1-3 you have a very stable and fast distro based on testing but where the updates have all been thoroughly tested. Leave the testing of the level 4-5 to the pros who have the necessary skills to correct the many problems encountered.
When levels 4-5 have been tested and are proved safe they will be promoted to level 1-3 stable where mere mortals like you and I can safely update to them.


Here's is a quote from Linux Mint developer clem
clem wrote:
Well, the rationale is different for Ubuntu and Debian Testing.

On Ubuntu, it's about filtering per level to prevent novice users from upgrading sensitive parts of their system. On Debian Testing, since it's rolling, it's about skipping temporary issues until they get resolved... so it's not a matter of filtering per level, but snapshoting the flow of updates and releasing it when it's stable.

With this in mind, mintupdate in its current form is still very much designed for an Ubuntu base. You can enable all 5 levels in it and get the same level of functionality as with apt itself, but what's really needed is a snapshot repository of Debian Testing and a fork of mintupdate designed specifically for LMDE. This will be designed and released after Mint 11.


taken from http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby craigevil on Sat May 07, 2011 5:59 am

wayne128 wrote:
christoff522 wrote:I use some ubuntu ppas and they work fine FireFox stable (4.0) and wine with pulseaudio integration. Yeah there's a learning curve, some things may need tinkering to get them working, but apart from that its quicker than main edition! Just think...no more reinstalls! In 5 years it'll be the same system up to date. That's why you use lmde



I am not sure if no more install is really possible.
Remember Debian Testing had lots of upgrade, and upgrade can break system.


Sure it is, on my desktop I installed Debian back in 2004; running sid with more or less daily apt-get dist-upgrade. Still haven't had to reinstall. Not having to reinstall is one of the big advantages of Debian.

A few things that help avoid major problems/issues:
Install apt-listbugs along with apt-listchanges
learn how to use aptitude/apt-get and stick with either one
watch what a d-u wants to remove
Use smxi for big upgrades
Do not use Ubuntu packages/PPAs/repos
Read the Debian docs
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby barko on Sat May 07, 2011 6:06 am

You can do this: install debian squeeze and mint it :) that means add mint repositories and use tools from it. I did that and I'm happy with my distro :) So i'm mint-debian user still but i do not break my system anymore with testing repositories. But, if you want some adventures with your computer, use testing repos and you will have it ;)

Have fun!
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby rizzeh on Sat May 07, 2011 6:15 am

The original poster stresses that he is not "linux savvy" and just wants a stable & functional system that will do all he needs without too much tweaking and configuring. Plus the use of clementine PPA. With this in mind, MintDE is not the ideal system for the requirements he provided. Mint10 fits this requirements perfectly, though. Stick to Mint10 untill it no longer fits the needs.
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