Considering of switching to LMDE

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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby ukbrian on Sat May 07, 2011 8:47 am

The original poster stresses that he is not "linux savvy" and just wants a stable & functional system that will do all he needs without too much tweaking and configuring.

That is exactly what a default install of LMDE is.

Plus the use of clementine PPA

Clementine is in the repos, I just downloaded it and I'm playing music from my network drive(NAS) on it now.
There is no need for any PPA's

With this in mind, MintDE is not the ideal system for the requirements he provided. Mint10 fits this requirements perfectly, though. Stick to Mint10 untill it no longer fits the needs

What is MintDE?
A default LMDE install is the ideal system for the requirements he provided, and for any newcomer to Linux.
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby rizzeh on Sat May 07, 2011 9:52 am

Default install of LMDE is based on testing - it can never be stable as the name suggest. Does OP state that he is a tester, developer, needs "bleeding edge" package versions? No , he states that he needs a stable system. Why do you insist for him to use the testing and development branch? I have Gentoo and Slackware installs that i've run for years, does it mean it's a good idea to advise these distros to new linux users?
Everything the OP needs is already working on his current install Mint10 install, by switching to LMDE he is gaining exactly nothing and loosing stability, bandwidth and time with daily updates.
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby ukbrian on Sat May 07, 2011 10:39 am

Default install of LMDE is based on testing

A default install of LMDE using only levels 1-3 as supplied is a hybrid and is not Debian Testing and has proved to be very stable, reliable, responsive and trouble free on three machines I use and also in Virtualbox.

I was answering the original OP's question.
Anyway I ve been considering on moving to LMDE since I find the whole idea to be more intriguing , but I fear Debian will give me a hard time. I posted in order to ask you if there are differences between the main edition and the Debian one, and if you think that someone new in Linux can handle it! What new things do I need to learn in order to have a stable and functional system? What do I have to do differently than the main edition in order to have the functionality I want? Do I install programs the same way? What about PPAs and programs that I install outside of the main repos? (I use Clementine, for example)

Default LMDE with it's rolling updates instead of the need to reinstall every six months fits the OP's requirements perfectly.
He was not asking whether he should stay with Mint Ubuntu but what problems he might encounter with LMDE
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby vasilis_mint on Sat May 07, 2011 11:18 am

I am already trying it out on Virtualbox but since I dont have enough time today I ll post results tomorrow or the day after!

Thanks for all the help!

ps : I gather that if i change the repos to stable I ll be ok and breakage free?
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby cpatrick08 on Sat May 07, 2011 11:31 am

vasilis_mint wrote:I am already trying it out on Virtualbox but since I dont have enough time today I ll post results tomorrow or the day after!

Thanks for all the help!

ps : I gather that if i change the repos to stable I ll be ok and breakage free?

yes but you cant go stable with lmde xfce since it was created after squeeze went stable but you can with lmde gnome
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby ukbrian on Sat May 07, 2011 11:57 am

I would take regular snapshots in Virtualbox so that you can always go back.
Before changing the repos to Squeeze(stable) give LMDE a good battering with just levels 1-3 and no dist-upgrades or updating with Synaptic, I think you will have just what your looking for.

I have just remade a video going through installing all the updates into LMDE on a windows 7 machine running Virtualbox that should help you. http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=72023

Please post your thoughts about the video and whether it was of any help to you. :)
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby zerozero on Sat May 07, 2011 12:21 pm

Brian, you should stop stop giving those wrong advices to newcomers, it just makes things worst:

1- LMDE is based off Debian testing, so it can never be, by nature a stable system, it's more stable than some Ubuntu versions (and more bugs free aswell, but breakages are always one update away)- that's what the testing branch is for, finding bugs and solving them;

2- insisting in MU is just wrong, even Clem stated very clear that that tool is not yet properly ported to LMDE, you have the quote in this thread, just read it, but no, you have to know better than the coder, ohh well;

3- installing LMDE (the gnome version - this shouldn't be done with the xfce one) and changing the repos to point to squeeze is possible and is one option for people that want to run Debian with a Mint flavour but want stability above all, but can't ever be done the way you are saying: one has to install LMDE-Gnome and PRIOR to any update change the sources.list to squeeze; it's the only way it will work;

4- doing full updates in LMDE is not being testers, is the only way to deal with this new beast, yes LMDE is a different beast;
you should try go with your theories to the Debian forum or even better to aptosid, that would be funny;
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby ukbrian on Sat May 07, 2011 12:41 pm

I apologize for very sincerely for upsetting a very knowledgeable person as you undoubtedly are and you have my utmost respect but it was so easy for the developers/coders to have the levels 4-5 boxes activated already in the default LMDE but they didn't.

I will crawl humbly back into my shell and desist from advising newcomers :oops: but I will await with interest as LMDE develops.
I just fail to see why Mint would develop yet another "Testing" distro for the average main stream end user but a rolling stable version between Squeeze and Testing does make sense, to me at least.

I apologize again for any upset.
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby zerozero on Sat May 07, 2011 1:20 pm

well about the first question you have to ask Clem himself why, why even giving so clearly the advice to use other procedure for updates purposes in LMDE, MU is still there;

and we have to remember that MU was probably the Mint tool with most code rewritten and new versions in these weeks;

ukbrian wrote: but a rolling stable version between Squeeze and Testing does make sense

this doesn't exist, well not yet, anyway, let's see how Debian CUT evolves and how LMDE can benefit from it;
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby vasilis_mint on Sat May 07, 2011 1:32 pm

Well, imho LMDE is THE definite Mint edition, in terms that it will be the one to shape future Mint releases and the general Mint approach of a usable Linux Desktop. Let me explain : although Mint started as an Ubuntu fork that focused on ease of use I cant help but see that there is a big difference of approach between Clems and Shuttleworths vision. All in all, Clem should sometime break away from Ubuntu's shadow and what better time to start than when Ubuntu has taken such an un-Linux term (creating its own DE that leaves much less options to the user and giving the Ubuntu devs all the power).

Nevertheless Mint Debian is still in its infant stage and I believe it will evolve into a considerably user friendly version of linux (friendlier than pure Debian) while trying to remain as cutting edge as possible, in a few years time. I bet that in that time it will become THE main Mint edition , and a unique one at that (instead of following Canonical's unfortunate decisions) in the whole Linux Distro multiverse.

This is just speculation from my part though. :)
Last edited by vasilis_mint on Sat May 07, 2011 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby ukbrian on Sat May 07, 2011 2:01 pm

vasilis_mint +1
I didn't think you were a rookie :) and you are very eloquent which I'm not
Considering he first thought of LMDE three years ago you gotta take your hat off to him.

My thoughts are you will really see LMDE and the real Mint Update when he has his Mint repos so that he can grade the updates from Testing and the skilled folk who do the testing are an very essential part of it all.

The future looks bright, the future looks Mint. :D
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby vasilis_mint on Sat May 07, 2011 2:34 pm

Thanks mate, although english is not my mother tongue (i m greek) so expect quite a few errors in my future posts! :)
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby ukbrian on Sat May 07, 2011 3:29 pm

vasilis_mint wrote:Thanks mate, although English is not my mother tongue (i m greek) so expect quite a few errors in my future posts! :)

Nothing wrong with your english, far better than mine and I'm not bilingual but your long term vision for Mint is spot on in my eyes
Great news that your staying and welcome to the forum, the mods do a brilliant job and it's a very friendly place.

Did you have the time to look at my miserable videos and do you think they would be of help to newcomers?
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby barko on Sat May 07, 2011 3:45 pm

ukbrian wrote:
vasilis_mint wrote:Thanks mate, although English is not my mother tongue (i m greek) so expect quite a few errors in my future posts! :)

Nothing wrong with your english, far better than mine and I'm not bilingual but your long term vision for Mint is spot on in my eyes
Great news that your staying and welcome to the forum, the mods do a brilliant job and it's a very friendly place.

Did you have the time to look at my miserable videos and do you think they would be of help to newcomers?


I think you should make more of this kind videos :) i'm sure for some will be very useful
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby ukbrian on Sat May 07, 2011 5:01 pm

@barko
I think you should make more of this kind videos :) i'm sure for some will be very useful

Thank you for your encouragement :) unfortunately this thread is very busy and things get buried very quickly and as most of the readers will not be registered so they are unable to post. :cry:

I personally think the forum is going to become very busy as folk migrate away from Ubuntu and a very serious redesign of the forum with a lot more sub forums to separate things would be hugely beneficial for the mods and end users but when I suggested this last year there was an immediate post saying "perhaps Mint users like the forum as it is".

Everybody who's already familiar with something doesn't relish change but things must evolve as circumstances change you just have to make sure the new design is an improvement.

The best laid out forum I have encountered was the support forum for Vbulletin at http://vbulletin.org If you click on the "Mods" tab at the top you will see that there are separate forums for each release which makes life very simple when you're searching for info for a particular version.

I have a current unused copy of Vbulletin that I offered as a donation to Mint but nobody got back to me.
I only bought it because I was curious what the market leader in commercial forum software had to offer and I was very impressed.

It's a bit like Firefox where it's easy to write add ons to do simple customizing of the screen form but you also have access to redesign the templates and it's a whole lot easier to maintain. The architect of the forum software for the last 8 years, a non director, recently had it sold from underneath him and he and a few of the key coders have developed another called ZenForo at http://xenforo.com/community/ and I think my advice would be to go with that one. Every bit of software, no matter how well written, needs a complete rewrite eventually.

Whoops got a bit off topic there. :oops:

Thanks again for the encouragement, I'm retired and see things through the eyes of an end user but I have tweaked database screen forms under dos and Visual Basic before so I have a fair idea of what is easy and what's more difficult.
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby craig10x on Sat May 07, 2011 5:35 pm

As far as LMDE eventually becoming as stable and trouble free as mint main edition is, that would only be possible if Clem would develop that monthly snapshot plan he has on his mind to do after mint 11 us released...but he would have to take it even further then that and personally monitor and check everything on it to make sure any potential breakages are avoided when installing those snapshots...

In addition, he would have to get those "rough edges" out of it which are still there and that mint main does not have AND add easy friendly newbie style auto install options that the main edition has as well..

THEN...you have a true replacement for Mint Main that is stable, reliable AND rolling!!! :wink: :)

But i don't know if that all will ever be possible...sounds a bit too improbable...but a nice "dream" :lol:
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby ukbrian on Sun May 08, 2011 9:26 am

My Amiga is definitely better than your Atari :lol:
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby vasilis_mint on Sun May 08, 2011 10:22 am

I watched your videos and i have to say they are really simple and straightforward just like they should be! I already knew most of the procedures but I am pretty sure that even people who only have the slightest idea of installing os'es will find the whole ordeal to be a breeze.

What I think would benefit the functionality of your videos would be audio commentary, which would allow you to communicate much more information in the same amount of time! Remember that most people (me included) would like to see a straight to the point video with as much info as possible in the shortest amount of time! What I am trying to convey is that although your videos are small in length you could trim some parts and DOUBLE the info provided by explaining what you are doing or commenting on WHY you need a swap partition or what an ext4 partition format is, in the same amount of time

On a side note I loled a bit when I saw you select the AMD64 guest additions version and the "non compatible version" message popped up on the terminal before you proceeded on selecting the correct version

Cheers mate, these were really helpful videos and i believe that with a few minor tweaks they could become perfect
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Re: Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby Dr.m0x on Mon May 09, 2011 12:29 am

ukbrian wrote:My Amiga is definitely better than your Atari :lol:


Quoted for truth.

Sent from my Gingerbread loaded Desire HD.
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Re: Considering of switching to LMDE

Postby ukbrian on Tue May 10, 2011 11:02 am

@barco Thank you, believe me a little encouragement helps

@vasilis_mint Thank you for taking the time, very much appreciated.
really simple and straightforward just like they should be
I'm aiming at young kids with little or poor education who can't do manuals but look things up on youtube.

What I think would benefit the functionality of your videos would be audio commentary

I completely agree with you but first I had to become a camera man for the recordings which I think I've about achieved so the next step is to learn to edit the videos and then to add a sound track.

Remember that most people (me included) would like to see a straight to the point video with as much info as possible in the shortest amount of time!

Agreed for folk like you but would it be right for the folk I'm aiming at? It would be very easy for someone with more knowledge than I to edit the original recordings for more accomplished end users.


WHY you need a swap partition or what an ext4 partition format

I think it would just confuse my target audience but perhaps include a text file describing things in more detail.
I will have to do a video showing how to resize a typical windows install that uses the whole drive as c:\ and then how to add partitions for Linux but I'm still mulling it over in my head how to approach it in a simple way.

On a side note I loled a bit when I saw you select the AMD64 guest additions version and the "non compatible version" message popped up on the terminal before you proceeded on selecting the correct version

Although not a deliberate mistake and easily edited out I have formed the opinion that when teacher makes an occasional error it relaxes folk and shows them how to recover when they make similar errors.

Thank you for the feedback as it's the only feedback I've received apart from barko's words of encouragement so it helps a lot.

I've started playing with Openshot and I'm starting to suss the way it likes to work so I'm developing work practices to fit around it.
I've also played with Audacity and found out how to remove the background hum from my sound recordings.

Mint 11 is due out very shortly and then work will commence on updating Mint Update, Mint Software Manager and possible the Mint repositories and it is then that I plan on recording the videos, at the moment it's all about perfecting my techniques.

This is a short demo of where I'm at at the moment http://lin.me.uk/tutorials/video/lmde/updating-test.mp4
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