it's rolling, just not effectively enough

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it's rolling, just not effectively enough

Postby isranico on Fri May 13, 2011 8:18 am

hello to all the great developers and users of LMDE^^

I'm an avid fan of LMDE. been using it as my main OS since it came out in september. it runs more smoothly and effectively than any "light" ubuntu deriative I ever laid my hand on... and I do love the idea of a "rolling" release... but as in other linux distros.... quality of a new install is unmatched to the quality of an update, rolling as it may be.

I've started with the september version, when it was still young and rough... the december/january updates fixed some problems, but I went on and made a new clean install 201101 ISO, and it worked much better and fixed more settings and glitches. since then a whole era of debian has passed. testing moved on to wheezy. one day I tried to update my system by "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" outside the graphical system. after the update (which in download is bigger than a new ISO) was over, I had to face the problem that with each shutdown the system tried to start new kernel and crashing. not having the patience to try to fix this and other glitches that the update brought, I made a clean reinstall of 201101 ISO. after all I hardly have to tweak the system after a new install. all I do is install ibus (for hebrew+japanese input) and emesene and ebview (a dictionary tool) and I'm set. I never use alternative repos or fiddle with the kernel or whatever. so since I do want an updated system I'm impatiently waiting for a new ISO to come out. I'm not going to use updates again because they don't seem particularly effective to me.

does anyone else feel like I do? that installing the system anew is nicer and safer than using rolling updates?
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Re: it's rolling, just not effectively enough

Postby ThistleWeb on Fri May 13, 2011 8:57 am

Rolling does mean getting new versions of applications, some of which may not be tested to the same degree. Debian Testing is older, more conservative but still rolling. It's arguably more predictable than something like Arch but then it appeals to different needs. If you want guaranteed stability you'd be better suited to either the Debian Stable repos or an Ubuntu based LTS like Mint 9.
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Re: it's rolling, just not effectively enough

Postby JasonLG on Fri May 13, 2011 8:59 am

isranico wrote:hello to all the great developers and users of LMDE^^

I'm an avid fan of LMDE. been using it as my main OS since it came out in september. it runs more smoothly and effectively than any "light" ubuntu deriative I ever laid my hand on... and I do love the idea of a "rolling" release... but as in other linux distros.... quality of a new install is unmatched to the quality of an update, rolling as it may be.

I've started with the september version, when it was still young and rough... the december/january updates fixed some problems, but I went on and made a new clean install 201101 ISO, and it worked much better and fixed more settings and glitches. since then a whole era of debian has passed. testing moved on to wheezy. one day I tried to update my system by "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" outside the graphical system. after the update (which in download is bigger than a new ISO) was over, I had to face the problem that with each shutdown the system tried to start new kernel and crashing. not having the patience to try to fix this and other glitches that the update brought, I made a clean reinstall of 201101 ISO. after all I hardly have to tweak the system after a new install. all I do is install ibus (for hebrew+japanese input) and emesene and ebview (a dictionary tool) and I'm set. I never use alternative repos or fiddle with the kernel or whatever. so since I do want an updated system I'm impatiently waiting for a new ISO to come out. I'm not going to use updates again because they don't seem particularly effective to me.

does anyone else feel like I do? that installing the system anew is nicer and safer than using rolling updates?


A new iso would just be a snapshot of the current state of Debian testing(plus the Mint goodies added on). It would be no different then if you ran dist-upgrade. That's how rolling releases work.
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Re: it's rolling, just not effectively enough

Postby asymmetros on Fri May 13, 2011 2:00 pm

I am using LMDE since its very first days, dist-upgrading often with no problems so far. Re-installed only once -the new Xfce edition cause i wanted to get rid of Gnome. I was running Xfce on top of Gnome previously -but.... Anyway, sometimes i prefer to go clean and clear .... :roll:
With an ubuntu based edition, you ll have to reinstall twice a year. So, it is not a big deal if the system will ##!!#@)O# so badly one day, i ll survive :mrgreen:
Other than that, no, i ll avoid reinstalls for the sake of performance. You see, i removed most of the default apps.



with each shutdown the system tried to start new kernel and crashing


Just for the records- the solution was simple: sudo apt remove kexec-tools
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Re: it's rolling, just not effectively enough

Postby craigevil on Fri May 13, 2011 10:25 pm

Install apt-listbugs and apt-listchanges that way you will have less of a chance of getting bitten by upgrade bugs.

In seven yrs on running Debian I have only had to reinstall once and that was in the first couple of months on a old pc that had several components fail including the BIOS battery.

On my other desktop it has been over seven yrs since I first installed and it is still going strong. One of the main reasons I run Debian is that I never ever need to reinstall.
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Re: it's rolling, just not effectively enough

Postby rhodry on Fri May 13, 2011 11:29 pm

craigevil wrote:Install apt-listbugs and apt-listchanges that way you will have less of a chance of getting bitten by upgrade bugs..................


These should be made mandatory on rolling release distributions, IMHO! :) They give you an opportunity to pause and think before doing an upgrade; assuming something pops up.

Most upgrades are not IMMEDIATELY compulsory. Check for updates regularly; but, if there are some, check these forums for "bite ya's" or workarounds. WAIT a little while until you are comfortable that all is ok then do the full upgrade through recommended method.

I too have machines that have gone years without a reboot let alone a re-install.

There are two approaches here: 'If it 'aint broke don't fix it, or, If it 'aint broke fix it till it is!! Same basic LMDE, your actions determine which approach you take.

Roll on rolling releases I say !! :)

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Re: it's rolling, just not effectively enough

Postby adefigo on Sat May 14, 2011 9:24 am

isranico wrote:I had to face the problem that with each shutdown the system tried to start new kernel and crashing.

in /etc/default/kexec set LOAD_KEXEC=false
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Re: it's rolling, just not effectively enough

Postby isranico on Sun May 15, 2011 1:44 pm

thank you all for your kind input^^
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