LMDE: A Great Disappointment <Decision Time>

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LMDE: A Great Disappointment <Decision Time>

Postby malligt on Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:45 pm

Hello to all....

<Venting>

I've been trying Mint LMDE since its inception/ introduction. For a great while, I was able to keep my systems "close" to reality,,,even though my Dell laptop touch pad never ever worked (despite the original advise from CLEM on the LMDE release notes), plus the bluetooth never ever working( that works perfectly from Mint 10 Julia)....and being totally unable to print anything to a windows printer from SAMBA ( that works perfectly from Mint 10 Julia)...all requesting (unsuccessful) help on the forums....albeit a function/solution working by adding the Zen liqorix kernel....

Wow, what a deal!!

I have really tried and tried again to learn the LMDE debain ways here....

The Mint LMDE forums numbers really tell the true story of unfriendlieness to the
LMDE user....2 to one (against) over any other Mint topic...99% of complaints express a symptom which cannot make LMDE work....and by that, I mean "work out of the box" like the Mint 9 or 10 or even 11 that the webpage says LMDE hopes to be identical to.

Update:

Now my sound is BORKED from MU, and more...... a kernel update without linux headers, bork bork bork, ....and a distro with over 1,200 updates that is exceeding the size of the original 2011_01LMDE 32 bit release...which was borked upon its original release as some may recall....

I would not ever in a million years recommend this to anybody but a senior, senior level debian expert competent individual.

I wish Mint LMDE the best in the future...but I cannot take all the almost daily breakages, and malfunctions any further.

I thank all of you who gave support to me....and I really hope to re-join LMDE when all the C*ap is refined into a truly Mint-worthy distro.

Thank you for your kind assistance over the last 10 months....

But, for me,

I am glad I tried LMDE, but ( once again) for me....

this is a huge disappointment.....

Why?

Mint 11 32 bit (installed today) on the same computer LMDE was on.....

ALL the stuff "works" out of the box on my Dell Inspiron 6000... including the touchpad......WOW what a plus!!

All the best to Clem....and dev team.

This was a great learning debian experience...but I don't have the time to baby-sit it every day 24/7 in my life.... to fix all the constant (and many times in my own experience) unfixable breakages. Still unfixed as mentioned above.

Good Sailing to Mint....

Hopeful to catch you all again very soon!
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Re: LMDE: A Great Disappointment <Decision Time>

Postby tdockery97 on Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:01 pm

It is only expected that each person will use what works for them. That's the beauty of Linux, including Mint.
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Re: LMDE: A Great Disappointment <Decision Time>

Postby Sonsum on Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:12 pm

tdockery97 wrote:It is only expected that each person will use what works for them. That's the beauty of Linux, including Mint.


This is why I chose LMDE, I was tired of Ubuntu's overhead and the direction they were heading. I love UNE on my netbook, but would rather have something more traditional for my desktop.

I'm sorry that your experience with LMDE was a bad one, but I am very happy that you found something that does what you need :)
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Re: LMDE: A Great Disappointment <Decision Time>

Postby Dyfi on Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:55 am

I agree with tdockery - each to their own. My time with lmde has taught me a great deal about computing. More so than just using "a working out of the box experience".
I am sticking with it.
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Re: LMDE: A Great Disappointment <Decision Time>

Postby telenux on Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:36 am

I agree with the OP. But, that's because the Mint team doesn't care about Debian.

Their download still gives you the .32 kernel. So, their beloved 'Ubuntu version' is up to date and they make sure you know all about Mint 11. The Debian version (LMDE) has almost no info provided at all. Yep, big disappointment indeed...
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Re: LMDE: A Great Disappointment <Decision Time>

Postby ThistleWeb on Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:13 am

telenux wrote:I agree with the OP. But, that's because the Mint team doesn't care about Debian.

Their download still gives you the .32 kernel. So, their beloved 'Ubuntu version' is up to date and they make sure you know all about Mint 11. The Debian version (LMDE) has almost no info provided at all. Yep, big disappointment indeed...


I was under the impression the kernel came from the upstream base repos in both cases. Ubuntu uses a newer kernel so the Ubuntu based Mint gets the newer kernel, Debian Testing uses an older kernel so you get an older kernel. I don't see how that translates into the Mint team not caring about Debian.
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Re: LMDE: A Great Disappointment <Decision Time>

Postby JeffShepherd on Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:01 am

telenux wrote:I agree with the OP. But, that's because the Mint team doesn't care about Debian.

Their download still gives you the .32 kernel. So, their beloved 'Ubuntu version' is up to date and they make sure you know all about Mint 11. The Debian version (LMDE) has almost no info provided at all. Yep, big disappointment indeed...


I have updated the kernal on my LMDE with this

Code: Select all
    sudo apt-get update
    sudo apt-get dist-upgrade


And then cleared out the old Grub entry from Synaptic.
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Re: LMDE: A Great Disappointment <Decision Time>

Postby goinglinux on Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:59 am

Being on the "bleeding edge" with a rolling release has its disadvantages. Because you get all the latest updates, sometimes things break. I agree that unless you are either a more advanced user, or just want to have the opportunity to learn by fixing the issues (opportunities?) that a rolling release brings your way, you should stick with one of the traditional releases... maybe even a long term support release.

On the other hand, one advantage of a rolling release is that you get all of the latest updates. Yesterday, on my main LMDE notebook, I got the upgrade from Firefox 4 to Firefox 5, then read that Mozilla is no longer supporting FF4 with security patches, even though it was release just 6 months ago. According to Linux Insider, FF5 *is* the security update for FF4. http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/72739.html I wonder... did Mint 11 get FF5 pushed into the repositories? I sure hope so.
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Re: LMDE: A Great Disappointment <Decision Time>

Postby Bonsaii on Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:39 pm

For me, LMDE is heaven. And I have done my fair share of "distro hopping",
working with Kanotix, Knoppix, Kubuntu, Ubuntu, PuppyLinux and DamnsmallLinux.

No other distribution worked "out of the box" like LMDE, all Ubuntus
(from 8.04 through 11.04) had audio issues. Just check their forums and
wikis, they are jammed with "audio" postings.

One thing might be worth pointing out, maybe even for all distros: apt-get
To keep my system up to date, I am using the following two commands in a
terminal:

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get upgrade.

And I always run it twice.
Because often enough, one update leads to a few more packages
to be installed or updated. And in my experience, neither the
update managers (from Mint or others), nor Synaptics catches all
of those all the time.

Regarding Dell machines it might be worth checking their own
linux distro. Dell uses strange or rare hardware components,
where you cannot expect every distribution to have all the
obscure drivers.

A very happy LMDE camper,
Bonsaii
Thinkpad T410s, LMDE 64Bit, Cinnamon
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Re: LMDE: A Great Disappointment <Decision Time>

Postby malligt on Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:28 pm

And with all due respect about LMDE and sound....3 recent (June 2011) LMDE updates borked my sound:
gnome-session-canberra
libcanberra0
libcanberra-gtk0

and responding to you "all ubuntus have sound problems"

I started using linux with Mint 9 LTS, then Mint 10 (still installed on a couple of my machines) , and now Mint 11. I have never had a sound problem. Maybe that's a direct result of the quality of Mint and Clem's team producing those releases.

If LMDE is heaven, as you write, as of this writing, there are ~38,000 views on the Check Here For Breakages First post that beg to disagree with you and its ease of use.

Look, to each his own.

Right now in my life, I want something that is easier to use and maintain on a daily basis than LMDE.
Mint 9, 10, and 11 all offer that to me.

Some day I hope to return to LMDE.

Regards!
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Re: LMDE: A Great Disappointment <Decision Time>

Postby Sonsum on Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:55 pm

malligt wrote:And with all due respect about LMDE and sound....3 recent (June 2011) LMDE updates borked my sound:
gnome-session-canberra
libcanberra0
libcanberra-gtk0

and responding to you "all ubuntus have sound problems"

I started using linux with Mint 9 LTS, then Mint 10 (still installed on a couple of my machines) , and now Mint 11. I have never had a sound problem. Maybe that's a direct result of the quality of Mint and Clem's team producing those releases.

If LMDE is heaven, as you write, as of this writing, there are ~38,000 views on the Check Here For Breakages First post that beg to disagree with you and its ease of use.

Look, to each his own.

Right now in my life, I want something that is easier to use and maintain on a daily basis than LMDE.
Mint 9, 10, and 11 all offer that to me.

Some day I hope to return to LMDE.

Regards!


I've checked the check here for breakages page a good dozen times and I've had LMDE all of 2 days. I've never had a breakage, even from the fresh install > up to date ~900 updates. So I don't feel that is a valid point against the software.

But yes, if you want the ultimate in stability, you will want to run Mint 9 or LMDE based not on testing, but stable.
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Re: LMDE: A Great Disappointment <Decision Time>

Postby mockturtl on Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:05 pm

goinglinux wrote:Yesterday, on my main LMDE notebook, I got the upgrade from Firefox 4 to Firefox 5, then read that Mozilla is no longer supporting FF4 with security patches, even though it was release just 6 months ago. According to Linux Insider, FF5 *is* the security update for FF4. http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/72739.html I wonder... did Mint 11 get FF5 pushed into the repositories? I sure hope so.
Looks that way.

Katya (Natty, upstream): http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/web/

Enjoyed hearing you on mintcast, btw. :)
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Re: LMDE: A Great Disappointment <Decision Time>

Postby malligt on Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:09 pm

@Sosum

Interesting.....trying to reinstall LMDE 32 bit last Sunday, had almost 1,200 updates, so just curious about how you arrived at 900....

@goinglinux

did Mint 11 get FF5 pushed into the repositories? I sure hope so.


Answer: Yes. FF 5 update installed on Mint 11 June 23, 2011.


@Bonsaii

Regarding Dell machines it might be worth checking their own
linux distro. Dell uses strange or rare hardware components,
where you cannot expect every distribution to have all the
obscure drivers.


FYI Dell Inspirons typically have Synaptics Touch Pad or Alps Glidepoint..... FWIW...My laptop has the Alps Glidepoint/Stickpoint touchpad.

I followed this link:

http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_debian.php

And more specifically:

Touchpad
To activate "click on tap" for your touchpad, type sudo gedit /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-synaptics.conf and replace the content of the file with the following:

Section "InputClass"
Identifier "touchpad catchall"
Driver "synaptics"
MatchIsTouchpad "on"
Option "TapButton1" "1"
Option "VertEdgeScroll" "1"
EndSection



and the touchpad never ever worked with LMDE 32 bit on my Dell Inspiron 6000, however the touchpad works fine on Mint 9, Mint 10, Mint 11.(32bit)....and Win XP--- originally shipped on this laptop.
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Re: LMDE: A Great Disappointment <Decision Time>

Postby sgosnell on Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:37 am

Debian Testing is not the bleeding edge, not even close. Debian Experimental is the bleeding edge, then comes Debian Unstable, on which most of Ubuntu is based, then Debian Testing. Testing is pretty far behind the bleeding edge, but it suffers from the disadvantage of being in the middle, so it has more borkage than Stable, but it takes longer for the fixes to arrive than Unstable. I gave up on Testing some time ago, as well as the Mint additions, and am running pretty much pure Debian Unstable, and I have far less borkage than I had while running LMDE. One sure way to have lots of borkage is to use the Mint Updater, which was never designed for Debian, and included out of pure laziness. It will bork your system. For updates you need to use the terminal,
Code: Select all
sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
That will give you the most stable system possible with Testing.
Asus eee-pc 900 w/ 32GB SSD.
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Re: LMDE: A Great Disappointment <Decision Time>

Postby Sonsum on Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:20 am

malligt wrote:@Sosum

Interesting.....trying to reinstall LMDE 32 bit last Sunday, had almost 1,200 updates, so just curious about how you arrived at 900....



I run 64 bit, so it was released a little later than your 32 bit version, therefore, less updates.
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Re: LMDE: A Great Disappointment <Decision Time>

Postby drumBE on Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:00 am

LMDE is a choice you can make, for me it is the best distro
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Re: LMDE: A Great Disappointment <Decision Time>

Postby telenux on Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:50 am

JeffShepherd wrote:
telenux wrote:I agree with the OP. But, that's because the Mint team doesn't care about Debian.

Their download still gives you the .32 kernel. So, their beloved 'Ubuntu version' is up to date and they make sure you know all about Mint 11. The Debian version (LMDE) has almost no info provided at all. Yep, big disappointment indeed...


I have updated the kernal on my LMDE with this

Code: Select all
    sudo apt-get update
    sudo apt-get dist-upgrade


And then cleared out the old Grub entry from Synaptic.
So, resort to Ubuntu style updating?

Also, sure, I could update and upgrade or just use Debian Testing (now Wheezy) and not have to do that step. Why doesn't the Mint devs just replace the .iso w/ an update?

They did with the Ubuntu version. Like I said, Debian seems to be an afterthought...
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Re: LMDE: A Great Disappointment <Decision Time>

Postby telenux on Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:56 am

P.S. I will try it anyway on my laptop. I wanted a pre-configured distro Debian-based for an old laptop. I don't mind manually doing everything on a newer computer but this is just an old laptop I want everything 'ready.' :)

I think the 'how-to's' and other threads with updated info and instructions for 'solving' issues looks pretty good so far. It's just strange that the Debian edition, based on TESTING, is using a 'Squeeze' kernel.
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Re: LMDE: A Great Disappointment <Decision Time>

Postby zerozero on Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:17 am

sgosnell wrote:Debian Testing is not the bleeding edge, not even close. Debian Experimental is the bleeding edge, then comes Debian Unstable, on which most of Ubuntu is based, then Debian Testing. Testing is pretty far behind the bleeding edge, but it suffers from the disadvantage of being in the middle, so it has more borkage than Stable, but it takes longer for the fixes to arrive than Unstable. I gave up on Testing some time ago, as well as the Mint additions, and am running pretty much pure Debian Unstable, and I have far less borkage than I had while running LMDE. One sure way to have lots of borkage is to use the Mint Updater, which was never designed for Debian, and included out of pure laziness. It will bork your system. For updates you need to use the terminal,
Code: Select all
sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
That will give you the most stable system possible with Testing.

+1 for that sgosnell, but unfortunately few will hear you
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Re: LMDE: A Great Disappointment <Decision Time>

Postby Sonsum on Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:14 pm

telenux wrote:So, resort to Ubuntu style updating?

Also, sure, I could update and upgrade or just use Debian Testing (now Wheezy) and not have to do that step. Why doesn't the Mint devs just replace the .iso w/ an update?

They did with the Ubuntu version. Like I said, Debian seems to be an afterthought...


I don't know their reasoning, but as a rolling release, things get broken. Wouldn't it make sense to not release frequent isos, and only release a few that they know aren't borked very badly?

I find it silly to judge an operating system based on it's "outdated" kernel when the solution is just an:

Code: Select all
sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade


away.

And are the updated isos you're talking about Linux Mint 11? Because the jump from 10 to 11 is not because of the newer kernel, but because it is based on a whole new release of Ubuntu.
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