[SOLVED]Reasoning behind LMDE Testing/Unstable/Latest/Incomi

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[SOLVED]Reasoning behind LMDE Testing/Unstable/Latest/Incomi

Postby Alohacoconut78 on Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:22 pm

So I read about the various repos for Debian/LMDE, and pretty quickly came to understand that a Debian stable with backports based LMDE would be the optimal setup for myself. (something that one might be able to reliably achieve without guru like know-how?)

Now don't take this the wrong way, I'm just curious and wondering why LMDE isn't based on more stable Debian repos? Is it that the sole purpose of LMDE is to make a "rolling release" variant of Linux Mint?
Last edited by Alohacoconut78 on Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reasoning behind LMDE Testing/Unstable/Latest/Incoming

Postby rhy7s on Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:46 pm

Did you see this guide?
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Re: Reasoning behind LMDE Testing/Unstable/Latest/Incoming

Postby zerozero on Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:08 am

Alohacoconut78,
  • if you follow LifeInTheGrey's howto i believe that you don't need any kind of "guru like know-how" to have a successful LMDE stable+backports install;
  • now, i can't speak for the reasoning that lead to base LMDE on testing and not in stable, but one thing i can see: stable has by definition old/very old pkgs (and the backports only solve part of this problem), this way a lmde+stable wouldn't be attractive for a lot of users (if you look at the topics in the forum asking why, even based in testing, lmde is lagging behind in some apps v.)
  • on the other hand, stable lacks support for newer hardware (just to give you an example squeeze uses the .32 kernel, of course you can install a newer backport kernel but how many users will/know how to do that?)
  • Mint could backport (on their own and not in the debian backports) the missing apps to make that release au pair with the users expectations, but eventually the path Mint took (testing+UP) would be easier to maintain, deliver a better experience and the same (or very close) level of stability;
  • all this said, of course you still have the option to make your own LMDE+stable and it will work pretty well
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Re: Reasoning behind LMDE Testing/Unstable/Latest/Incoming

Postby Alohacoconut78 on Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:17 pm

zerozero wrote:Alohacoconut78,
  • if you follow LifeInTheGrey's howto i believe that you don't need any kind of "guru like know-how" to have a successful LMDE stable+backports install;
  • now, i can't speak for the reasoning that lead to base LMDE on testing and not in stable, but one thing i can see: stable has by definition old/very old pkgs (and the backports only solve part of this problem), this way a lmde+stable wouldn't be attractive for a lot of users (if you look at the topics in the forum asking why, even based in testing, lmde is lagging behind in some apps v.)
  • on the other hand, stable lacks support for newer hardware (just to give you an example squeeze uses the .32 kernel, of course you can install a newer backport kernel but how many users will/know how to do that?)
  • Mint could backport (on their own and not in the debian backports) the missing apps to make that release au pair with the users expectations, but eventually the path Mint took (testing+UP) would be easier to maintain, deliver a better experience and the same (or very close) level of stability;
  • all this said, of course you still have the option to make your own LMDE+stable and it will work pretty well


Thank you, that's more or less exactly the kind of information I was looking for :)
LifeInTheGrey's tutorial looks like it be of use, although it links to ISO files at megaupload, and installing an OS from a more or less unknown origin doesn't feel like a good idea.
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Re: Reasoning behind LMDE Testing/Unstable/Latest/Incoming

Postby Chris M on Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:19 pm

http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1818

If you crawl through the "Download via HTTP" sites, you'll run into the 2010 ISO's.

For instance: http://mirror.yellowfiber.net/linuxmint/debian/

yellowfiber.net has always worked pretty well for me. Use these:

linuxmint-debian-201012-gnome-dvd-amd64.iso 22-Dec-2010 00:55 1021560832
linuxmint-debian-201101-gnome-dvd-i386.iso 31-Dec-2010 16:05 1033945088

zz, nice FAQ thread!
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Re: Reasoning behind LMDE Testing/Unstable/Latest/Incoming

Postby GeneC on Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:26 pm

Alohacoconut78 wrote:
zerozero wrote:Alohacoconut78,
[list][*]if you follow LifeInTheGrey's howto i believe that you don't need any kind of "guru like know-how" to have a successful LMDE stable+backports install;
...................................
Thank you, that's more or less exactly the kind of information I was looking for :)
LifeInTheGrey's tutorial looks like it be of use, although it links to ISO files at megaupload, and installing an OS from a more or less unknown origin doesn't feel like a good idea.


Aloha........ :mrgreen:

I have followed that tutorial, but downloaded the iso from the Mint repos. Its still there.
http://ftp.heanet.ie/pub/linuxmint.com/debian/

You want either the
linuxmint-debian-201009-gnome-dvd-i386.iso 06-Sep-2010 08:28 875M (32bit)
linuxmint-debian-201012-gnome-dvd-amd64.iso 22-Dec-2010 00:55 1.0G (64bit)


LMDE-Stable-Debian Backports is sweet, if not boringly unbreakable.... :lol:
Gotta love Gnome 2.3
--------------------------

EDIT:
I type to slow.
ChrisM beat me to it... :lol:
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Re: Reasoning behind LMDE Testing/Unstable/Latest/Incoming

Postby zerozero on Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:32 pm

you gotta love this community :lol: i leave the comp for a min to grab a coffee and when i come back 2 wonderful answers in here 8)

zz, nice FAQ thread!
tks, Chris :wink:
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Re: Reasoning behind LMDE Testing/Unstable/Latest/Incoming

Postby GeneC on Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:46 pm

"zz"

ANOTHER coffee break? :?: :roll: :wink:

Aloha..........!

Just some info. With Debian Backports I have the latest Firefox and Thunderbird (9.0), latest LibreOffice, and most other aps are as up to date as my two other LMDE/SID installations. I only get a couple updates a WEEK, compared to 20-30 a day on SID.
Its realy quite nice.
But SID is so much fun.. :mrgreen:
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Re: Reasoning behind LMDE Testing/Unstable/Latest/Incoming

Postby Chris M on Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:08 pm

zz and Gene, two questions.

Is it fair to say that right now, anyone tracking stable won't have a gnome problem, but that once Update Pack 4 goes live, the mint repo "deb http://packages.linuxmint.com/ debian main upstream import" will present problems?

If so, should those tracking *stable* comment out the mint repo (after updating once)?

Code: Select all
# deb http://packages.linuxmint.com/ debian main upstream import
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/squeeze main contrib non-free
deb http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main contrib non-free
deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org squeeze main non-free
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-updates main contrib non-free
deb http://backports.debian.org/debian-backports squeeze-backports main contrib non-free


Edit

Sorry for missing the enabling of backport repo and zz' comments on it. But as zz indicates, it's perhaps doubtful that the backport repo will be used/filled for this purpose. So I guess my question is, could you simply track debian stable? It's basically the same question. Or, will commenting out all mint repos eventually break your system (will debian stable break your mint)?
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Re: Reasoning behind LMDE Testing/Unstable/Latest/Incoming

Postby GeneC on Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:04 pm

Chris

Interesting question. I still consider myself a newbie on linux, and look forward to 'zz's' comment. But here is my opinion. (May very well be quite wrong).
I think its fine to leave the mint repo enabled, that it will not cause problems. We will see some new stuff from it in synaptic. ie. MGSE extensions, Cinnamon, et. But these will not be listed as upgrades, and if someone tried to install them. They would not install because of dependency issues (Gnome 3.x shell is needed to run them).
The gnome upgrades come from straight Debian repos, so stable will stay at Gnome 2.3 as long as 'Squeeze' (the present stable) remains the 'stable'. Then (or NOW) we could change the word 'squeeze' in the sources lists to 'stable'.

You can track what is in the Mint repo here :arrow: http://packages.linuxmint.com/list.php?release=Debian

As for "backports" dont confuse "Debian Backports" :arrow: http://backports-master.debian.org/Instructions/
Code: Select all
deb http://backports.debian.org/debian-backports squeeze-backports main


With Mint Backports :arrow: http://packages.linuxmint.com/list.php? ... n#backport
As far as I know there has never been anything in Mint backports.

You want to keep Debian Backports enabled to have be able to keep applications upgradeable and current.
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Re: Reasoning behind LMDE Testing/Unstable/Latest/Incoming

Postby Chris M on Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:41 pm

Thanks, Gene. In fact, updates to the mint debian main, upstream and import repos have already come through, so even 1 UD with the mint repo enabled would pull or consider pulling newer files in.

I think zz will confirm your post.

OK on the debian vs. mint backport repo issue. Thanks again.
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Re: Reasoning behind LMDE Testing/Unstable/Latest/Incoming

Postby Alohacoconut78 on Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:46 pm

GeneC wrote:I have followed that tutorial, but downloaded the iso from the Mint repos. Its still there.
http://ftp.heanet.ie/pub/linuxmint.com/debian/


Ahhh.. I kind of got the impression that the ISOs were modified in some way, because well.. why else upload them to megaupload instead of referring to linuxmint.com?
Nice. Didn't even think of Gnome 2 (how I've missed thee). I might be giving LMDE stable +backports a try in a not too distant future.

Thanks for the input folks :)
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Re: [SOLVED]Reasoning behind LMDE Testing/Unstable/Latest/In

Postby zerozero on Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:11 pm

Chris and Gene,
the use of the mint repo with a debian stable setup already caused some incompatibilities here and here and was discussed here regarding potential problems in the future

so, to be honest, i would be very careful.
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Re: [SOLVED]Reasoning behind LMDE Testing/Unstable/Latest/In

Postby GeneC on Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:56 pm

"zz"

Thanks for that. Its only been around a month that I have been running LMDE-Stable-Debian Backports. No problems YET! But its only been a short time.
What do you suggest?
I changed apt-pinning as suggested in the tutorial.
Code: Select all
Package: *
Pin: release o=linuxmint
Pin-Priority: 700

Package: *
Pin: origin packages.linuxmint.com
Pin-Priority: 700

Package: *
Pin: release o=Debian
Pin-Priority: 700


Package: *
Pin: release o=Debian
Pin-Priority: 700 (was 500 by default)


Would you suggest a change in sources list.
Perhaps not using Mint repo at all?
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Re: [SOLVED]Reasoning behind LMDE Testing/Unstable/Latest/In

Postby zerozero on Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:32 pm

Gene, as you very well know, my knowledge of lmde+stable+backports is purely theoretical (i want to change that in the near future :D ) but:
- we had already one issue (the firefox update to v. 5);
- others may arise down the the road;

comment out the mint repo now, if it isn't (YET) causing problems seems like solving a problem before it even exists (with some luck nothing will happen during this year and in fev next year squeeze will be updated to wheezy and some inconsistencies that could come up with mint pkgs would be leveled: it's like a game, but hey, it's fun :lol: )
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Re: [SOLVED]Reasoning behind LMDE Testing/Unstable/Latest/In

Postby GeneC on Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:44 pm

:)

Yes, did this really as an experiment. Just wanted to see what was what. I must say its nice to get gnome 2.3 back again. I have nothing at all against Gnome 3.2 and shell, but its still young in development.

I already had a big update one day with both Firefox and Thunderbird getting updated to 9.0. No problems there. It did not occur to me that I might have come from Mint. I assumed it came from Debian backports.

I will comment out Mint repo, BUT will enable it every once in a while, just to see what it there and what might happen. I always have a clonezilla backup. :wink:

May start a thread dedicated to LMDE-SID-Stable-Debian Backports. Might be of interest to some.

Will keep you informed.
Thanks.
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Re: [SOLVED]Reasoning behind LMDE Testing/Unstable/Latest/In

Postby GeneC on Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:15 am

Just an update on my LMDE--Stable-Debian Backports partition.

Its been about 3 months since the above post with little problems. I get the occasional updates, but few, perhaps about 5-10% of what I get from testing.
The only issue so far was 'Mint Menu'. I had to 'pin' the current version from Gnome 2.3, as a new MATE version wanted to replace it, and of course would not work with Gnome 2.3.
I think its a real good option for now. MATE will replace it eventually. I had some issues with MATE running Compiz. But an confident they will be addressed. When that time comes it will replace this LMDE--Stable-Debian Backports partition, but for now its most excellent. :)
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