pae kernel (answered)

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pae kernel (answered)

Postby jjaythomas on Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:06 pm

This is my understanding so far. PLEASE correct me if I have it wrong!

You must have a Kernel to run a PAE, Doesn't matter if over or under 3gb memory. (hence my beloved TC1100 tablet can't)

No i 486 or below could, I586 class may or maynot, virtully all I686 can, and 64 bits systems all can.(if even want to rum 32bit OS)

Ubuntu said wouldn't have non-PAE kernel in 12.04 but now will so their will be atleast 5 more years of support because LTS version.

MINT Main editions being based on Ubuntu will not be able to install on non PAE ususabe CPU's after LMint 13. (Unless they do something) :idea
:
Hence the debian upstream decision to use the 486 kernal for the testing branch (hence LMDE) being rolling they have the mechinisim in place for users to change the kernel (and users can pin the old one and try to find usabe current one)

Already the 'Crunch Bang and other distro's' ship respins that need PAE capable (installed memory makes no difference) since they are not rolling/have ability to update kernel, yo have to install from a earlier spin and use SMXI or similier to change the kernal.(and hope doesn't break other things) :shock:

***This is why I hope LMDE version is LMints future (or atleast part of it :wink:

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Last edited by jjaythomas on Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: pae kernel

Postby nunol on Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:11 pm

jjaythomas wrote:You must have a Kernel to run a PAE, Doesn't matter if over or under 3gb memory.


If a distro uses a Live CD/DVD with a pae kernel it will not boot on a i486, i586 and on some i686 CPU's. Some i686 don't support pae like the Banias Pentium M but the large majority of i686 do.

jjaythomas wrote:Ubuntu said wouldn't have non-PAE kernel in 12.04 but now will so their will be atleast 5 more years of support because LTS version.


Don't know if the 12.04 alternative installer allows for a non-PAE install but Debian works fine with a i486 kernel.

jjaythomas wrote:MINT Main editions being based on Ubuntu will not be able to install on non PAE ususabe CPU's after LMint 13. (Unless they do something)


That's a bigger problem for lighter Mint distros like LXDE and Fluxbox, for the main edition I think it's ok but many Banias have over 1GB of RAM and are capable of running Mint 12 just fine.

jjaythomas wrote:Already the 'Crunch Bang and other distro's' ship respins that need PAE capable (installed memory makes no difference) since they are not rolling/have ability to update kernel, yo have to install from a earlier spin and use SMXI or similier to change the kernal.(and hope doesn't break other things) :shock:


Crunchbang newest spin has only 32-bit pae or 64bit kernel but i686 are available from previous spins and a i486 pre-final release existed (I have the ISO but not the torrent). It's a shame that such good light distro doesn't have a sable spin with a i486 kernel and even worst if they drop the i686 spin. At the time they said the i486 was causing confusion on some users, was take space and was used only by a few.

jjaythomas wrote:***This is why I hope LMDE version is LMints future (or atleast part of it :wink:


I hope the Mint Fluxbox CD edition with a i486 kernel arrives this year but for XFCE and Gnome I am ok with the i686-pae kernel and the DVD size because some users install the i486 and then complain that doesn't see all the RAM or the other CPU cores.
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Re: pae kernel

Postby jjaythomas on Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:38 pm

Thank You

Thats what I though (thats wy wh I said virtually all I686)

12.04 will keep using a non PAE kernel and switch to a PAE one if can use in Ubuntu 12.04 but as now stands they aren't planning to NOT in 12.10 or above. ( :?: I think Lubuntu developers even stated they aren't LTSing their next release 12.04 so they don't have to support for extra years?)

It's not having access to a nonPAE kernal it,s having a running install (that's current) disk that will run and then being able to get a PAE kernel if desired/needed (Debian tatic I think) with CB distro ect. you must install (if you even know it exits) a earlier spin and upgrade from their (and I think everything doesn't upgrade to the level/versions on the new spin. And new usier will just write off these (if not all Linx) distros as useless if they don't have the correct hardware

P.S. My personel sys are mostly 64bit (except beloved TC1100), but I like to to reburbish old computers for friends/relatives and/or donate to someone who has none (suprisingly alot of people still don' and rely on librarys ect. for access or when needed). Thats why I like the LMDE rolling (even with upacks) its easier saying you can probaly upgrade/get security fixes for ever NOT ist only supported for year you'// need to reinstall then to get security/fixes (at least if use buntu or varient).

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Re: pae kernel

Postby nunol on Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:17 am

jjaythomas wrote:12.04 will keep using a non PAE kernel and switch to a PAE one if can use in Ubuntu 12.04 but as now stands they aren't planning to NOT in 12.10 or above. ( :?: I think Lubuntu developers even stated they aren't LTSing their next release 12.04 so they don't have to support for extra years?)


It's a shame if Lubuntu gets the pae kernel by default instead of the i686 and doesn't have LTS support but Debian and other Debian based distros are good alternatives.

jjaythomas wrote:It's not having access to a nonPAE kernal it,s having a running install (that's current) disk that will run and then being able to get a PAE kernel if desired/needed (Debian tatic I think) with CB distro ect. you must install (if you even know it exits) a earlier spin and upgrade from their (and I think everything doesn't upgrade to the level/versions on the new spin. And new usier will just write off these (if not all Linx) distros as useless if they don't have the correct hardware


Crunchbang Live and install mode uses a i686-pae kernel but the text installer uses i486 (I think) so you can install Crunchbang on a i486 CPU but you can't boot with the i686-pae kernel. You could probably use Live Debian CD/DVD to chroot and install a i486/i686/etc kernel on Crunchbang.
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Re: pae kernel

Postby jjaythomas on Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:15 pm

Thanks

Didn't know that (will try) about Crunch Bang.
In regards to Lubuntu not LTSing, is it because PAE and NonPAE kernal require differt repos? I though repos same except between the 64Bits and 32Bits.

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Re: pae kernel

Postby nunol on Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:37 pm

jjaythomas wrote:Didn't know that (will try) about Crunch Bang.


Instead of doing that why not install a distro that supports both i486 and i686 like AntiX?

jjaythomas wrote:In regards to Lubuntu not LTSing, is it because PAE and NonPAE kernal require differt repos? I though repos same except between the 64Bits and 32Bits.


PAE and i686 (and i486 in Debian) kernels are on the same repos and you can install both in the same machine and boot one or the other. Don't know why Lubuntu is not a LTS release but that's probably just to save time from the Ubuntu devs.
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Re: pae kernel

Postby jjaythomas on Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:29 pm

No Response needed (this is really a Crunch Bing Question).

Strange CB in live mode (couple other Distros also) say can't boot 'CPU not capable of PAE instruction set' BUT instaling from nonlive works but the GDM screen says using I686 PAE kernal? :?
So I now not sure if my TC1100 is capable of the PAE instruction set or not.
Is their a CLI command that would check?

P.S. Thank You for setting me straight about the repos (not sure where I seen the statement from Lubuntu).

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Re: pae kernel

Postby nunol on Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:09 pm

Run this:
Code: Select all
grep --color=always -i PAE /proc/cpuinfo
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Re: pae kernel

Postby jjaythomas on Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:58 pm

Thank You...
Never seen that command.

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Re: pae kernel

Postby nunol on Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:44 am

Found how to run Ubuntu 12.04 on non-pae kernels, use this mini.iso:
http://www.us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu ... t/non-pae/

Se here for more info: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1924455
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Re: pae kernel

Postby lugligino on Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:31 am

nunol wrote:Found how to run Ubuntu 12.04 on non-pae kernels, use this mini.iso:
http://www.us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu ... t/non-pae/

Se here for more info: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1924455


Hi, my laptop is "non-pae" but I connect to internet with a internet key. Is it possible to use mini.iso with this kind of connection?
Linux Mint 13 Mate on a Dell Latitude D600 notebook 1GB RAM.
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Re: pae kernel

Postby nunol on Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:58 am

I only tested that ISO with ethernet so I don't know. If it's like the Debian installer then should work with WIFI, maybe only with WEP.

The best way is to download the mini.iso file and try the install.

Ubuntu 12.04 is not friendly for non-pae CPU's.
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Re: pae kernel

Postby jjaythomas on Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:38 am

My Understading...

As it stands Ubuntu (& Derivatives) with non-pae capable cpu's will be able to boot 12.04 but not 12.10 or above.
Because 12.04 will be LTS it will be supported for anther 5 year now.(new anounced change)
If you upgrade from 12.04 to a newer version whithin 5 years yo can with a non-pae BUT not with a "fresh" instal from 12.10 onward.

Correct me If wrong please...
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Re: pae kernel

Postby AlbertP on Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:52 am

That's true. Ubuntu decided to have PAE only kernels for 12.10+, but for 12.04 which is an LTS version, they chose to maintain non-PAE kernels for another half year.

The only non-PAE hardware that we have to worry about is some Intel Pentium M laptops (the models with 400MHz FSB). All other hardware of the 21st century, except some rare VIA C3 devices, supports PAE. Even Pentium III laptops do.
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Re: pae kernel

Postby nunol on Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:03 am

Lubuntu is not going to be a LTS release and I don't know about the upgrade from 12.04 to 12.10.

I also don't know what is going to be the default kernel for Mint 13 LTS. If Clem could use the non-pae kernel for Mint 13 LTS then many Ubuntu users that have Pentium M computers without pae support could move to Mint instead of using the mini.iso installer.
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