Mint Debian 6 Release

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Re: Mint Debian 6 Release

Postby Katzedecimal on Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:06 pm

Here is a link to an image of not-Mint Debian running happily on my playbox. It's not running much, at the moment, just Gkrellm, Pidgin and IceWeasel, don't even have codecs installed yet. It has the Debian "Lenny" background and I was amused to find the "Glide" window theme -- installed both of those and have dubbed the box 'Captain Cold' :lol: You may point and laugh at the comics geek 8) :mrgreen:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b19/artemis_666/gkrellShoot_12-13-08_124031.jpg

The installation was very smooth. My playbox is all oldware and it was all detected just fine. I chose to use the Guided partitioning (despite having recently learned to partition manually :mrgreen: ) and was interested to see that this partitioner offers the choice of setting /home as its own partition (and even more complex, offering the choice of giving /usr, /var and a few others their own partitions as well) The machine is running nicely so far.
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Re: Mint Debian 6 Release

Postby knuckles on Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:31 am

'thanks for the link.

Why changing the name? have you already an answer from Clem that he is against Mint Debian?
If i ready the comments from Clem, I don't think he is against, perheps only make a more clear mention that it is not official supported.
But what with Debian, will that team have somethink against the use of there Name?

Why do I think it is good to keep the Name? :
There are a lot of people like Debian, and with the Mint supplement it becomes more user friendly, what can make the 2 group's (Mint and Debian) more popular.
If the name is changed, how people will know what they become? If i read Mint Debian i know that i become a Debian Distro with the improvements from Mint!
It is hard to find a good name for this distro without hiding the roots!
I have nothing against Ubuntu but, how many people know that Debian is the base, an from that info try Debian and give some Support to that distro? Without the improvements that the Debian team do, Ubuntu where nothing...

For the future it is to interesting to think about the Mint-Base, when the Dev's become more time (Clem has already say, if it will be possible, he will work full-time for Mint), they will make surly a more own distro, and for that it is bad to wait for the Ubuntu-releases. In that case a pure Debian-Base is better. That is MY mind.

for the moment i like it to have more choices with Mint, to find the best version for every PC/Laptop in the house.

Now for the changes in t he next version:
-Is it possible to replace Sun Jave with the openJDK or must i install Java after manualy?
-the mintInstall place in the Mintmenu can perheps be taken from System Monitor. An app the I use regular an will be good to have it direct on the front.


In the future i will test every Mint Debian incarnation in Virtualbox, and when Squeeze will have a newer Gnome, I will jump from MintMain to Mint Debian.

thanks for the good work maybeway36! An naturally thanks to Clem and his team.

Sorry for my bad English, i how that every reader understand the text in the same context as it was thinking from me.
Sorry for my BAD English!!
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Re: Mint Debian 6 Release

Postby Fred on Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:54 am

I can't and wouldn't speak for Clem, but let me shed a little light on the situation he is in. He has a legal responsibility, at least in the U.S., to do due diligence and police the use of his trademarks or he will loose them. This issue came up a couple years ago with Linus and the Linux trademark.

What I am saying is if he just ignores people using the Mint name he will lose the ability to claim the Mint name as his own. It is a branding issue.

Also, just think of the confusing mess you would have if every Tom, Dick, and Harry out there was capitalizing on the Mint brand name and putting out distros using the Mint name.

Clem has a quality control process that must be adhered to for the specific purpose of maintaining the quality and compatibility of the Mint family of releases. That is what the Mint name is built on. If anybody who wanted could produce a distro and use the Mint name it would ultimately ruin the Mint reputation.

This isn't an issue with maybeway36, but a legal issue and seeing that the Mint name is not diluted and depreciated.

I know Clem has shown some favorable interest in this thread and its purpose. And as long as you are testing and developing I doubt he would have a problem. But to put out a final release without sanction exposes him to a different set of problems, as I pointed out above.

I know maybeway36 is quit young but he has shown great tenacity with this project and I too have followed this thread and would love to see an official Mint Debian release. I wish maybeway36 and Clem could make an arrangement whereby he could perhaps become an associate team member and not only gain sanction but learn about the release policies, quality, and testing requirements associated with Mint. I think it would be an educational experience for maybeway36 and a good step towards a true Mint Debian CE.

Hint Hint Clem. :-)

Fred

EDIT: Just in case you are interested, the exact same situation exists with the Debian name. Think about it. Do you know of a distro based on Debian that uses the Debian name that isn't sanctioned and released by Debian? :-)
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Re: Mint Debian 6 Release

Postby sylve-2 on Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:05 am

here here fred and much thanks to you maybeway36.
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Re: Mint Debian 6 Release

Postby maybeway36 on Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:46 pm

The main reason this isn't an official Mint edition is because there are some things missing, including a live CD installer (Debian doesn't have one), a specialized software portal (I don't have time to maintain something like this), and proper mintUpdate support (all the updates are 3s). These are some of the things that set Mint apart, and without them it's not really up to the same quality as an official Mint release.
Since mintUpdate doesn't have upgrade safety ratings in Debian, I'm considering replacing it with the standard GNOME update-notifier in the next release, but I'm leaning towards keeping it for the other added features, like upgrade history and proxy support. I don't use these myself, but they're nice to have.
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Re: Mint Debian 6 Release

Postby Fred on Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:51 pm

maybeway36 wrote:
The main reason this isn't an official Mint edition is because there are some things missing, including a live CD installer...

I think you missed my point entirely. It has nothing to do with the quality or completeness of your work. Unless it is sanctioned and goes through the Mint testing and release process it can never be an official Mint release, therefore you can't use the Mint branding or trademarked distro resources.

Please reread my post. These are legal issues not personal or work quality or completeness issues. :-)

Fred
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Re: Mint Debian 6 Release

Postby awong on Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:48 am

maybeway36 wrote:Thanks for all your feedback. I emailed Clem, and the next release will be called something other than Mint Debian. I'm not sure what to name it yet, so I wanted to hear your suggestions.
How about Linux Mentha, referring to a genus from the Mint family? You could have one of the many talented artists in this community design artwork for your release. Zwopper's and Jernau's minty leaves come to mind... This can help avoid any property and branding issues.

BTW, love the work you are doing to promote not-Mint + Debian, I mean, Linux Mentha... :wink:
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Re: Mint Debian 6 Release

Postby maybeway36 on Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:06 pm

Fred wrote:maybeway36 wrote:
The main reason this isn't an official Mint edition is because there are some things missing, including a live CD installer...

I think you missed my point entirely. It has nothing to do with the quality or completeness of your work. Unless it is sanctioned and goes through the Mint testing and release process it can never be an official Mint release, therefore you can't use the Mint branding or trademarked distro resources.

Please reread my post. These are legal issues not personal or work quality or completeness issues. :-)

Fred

I did read your post. The reasons I haven't submitted it to the team for an official release are:
1. I think Clem has said that a Mint Debian should ideally have a live CD installer, and
2. I don't really want the attention that being an official maintainer brings.
Some day I might make an official Debian CE, but it won't be in the near future.

awong: Linux Mentha is a cool name, but it might sound too similar to Linux Mint, and I don't want to confuse anyone or make them think I'm just copying (even though I really am. :P) I thought of "Glacix" as one possible title, but it doesn't have anything to do with mint.
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Re: Mint Debian 6 Release

Postby awong on Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:39 am

"Glacix" sounds good and it's your own idea; the name doesn't have to have any relation to Mint. As long as you are posting your work here we will all be able to figure out what Glacix (or whatever you decide to name not-Mint + Debian) is all about. I'm thinking snowy art, kind of what is all around my home right now... :D
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Re: Mint Debian 6 Release

Postby maybeway36 on Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:48 pm

I like the idea of snow-related art. There's a lot of snow up here in the northern U.S. too, and although it's a pain to shovel it looks nice on a computer!
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Re: Mint Debian 6 Release

Postby rivenought on Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:10 pm

maybeway36,

The only thing I have had to do extra with "Glacix" (not-Mint+based on Debian?) was to add in the printing applications. Otherwise, it is running quite solidly. I eventually got it right for me (at least nothing exploded). Since this is in your ballpark, you may wish to give the official way to add the printing.

I am having a blast test-driving this little rascal. I have not wrecked it yet, so either I am driving carefully or it is as solid as a tank. Might be both.

Perhaps it is just me thinking ahead, but there really could eventually be a Mint based on Debian that is true to the ideals expressed by Clem for his approval as a Community Edition. While I am not having any major issues with anything based on Ubuntu, there are plenty who are.

Down the road a bit, there might be some benefits of using Debian or even sidux along with the Mint finishing touches. Nothing is out of the realm of possibility for the future of Mint. There is so much excitement around here.
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Re: Mint Debian 6 Release

Postby maybeway36 on Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:25 pm

Thanks rivenought for trying it out! I'm curious as to what printing tools you installed. I would like to include them in the main install. I haven't tested printing myself, so basically my advice is to just do what you would on Debian.
There very well could be a Mint Debian CE eventually. It won't be for Mint 6, but somewhere down the road I or someone else might make one. I guess we'll just wait and see :)
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Re: Mint Debian 6 Release

Postby Zwopper on Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:57 pm

Glacix - I like it! :)
I'll whip up some artwork ideas for it, how about a rework of Winter Mint for instance?
How about it fellow artists - a new fun challenge to help define the graphic profile of a new fresh distro!!! 8) 8) 8)
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Re: Mint Debian 6 Release

Postby rivenought on Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:30 pm

maybeway36,

I was not confident as to what I was adding, but I knew there was supposed to be a similar setup for printing as in Mint. I looked at my Mint 6 setup, and then took a few stabs in "Glacix." I added "system-config-printer," "CUPS Gutenprint," and some "foomatic" stuff. Amazingly, I got my old Canon S750 (using the S800 Gutenprint driver) to work. This is not the most reliable way to add packages, but something worked for me. I know there is a better way to do it besides "click and see what works."

I have not done any updating, but I did add a few packages here and there. I am hoping to learn from you more Debian-literate folks. I am brave enough when it comes to testing, but a re-install of "Glacix" takes much longer than Mint in case I set something on fire.

Some may argue about having the absolute latest packages and desktop environment. "Glacix" could really fit the bill for those looking for proven stability, as well as the Mint-type tools instead of the bleeding edge that many times draws blood.

I am not a Linux expert by any means, but I do enjoy kicking a few tires and taking test drives. I have thoroughly enjoyed using all of the Mint versions. I love Mint 6 by Clem and the crew and have it exclusively on my main machine. "Glacix" has found a home on one of the hard drives in my secondary machine. I am learning a great deal, and I appreciate all your hard work. I know the fun has just started.
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Re: Mint Debian 6 Release

Postby rivenought on Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:35 pm

Zwopper,

I do like the snow and ice wallpaper. I am looking forward to seeing some new artwork in relation to this project. This forum is populated with so many talented people. I can barely draw stick figures and match colors in the appearances. Though, I am pretty good at tearing stuff up. Trust me, if it can be broken, let me touch the keyboard.
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Re: Mint Debian 6 Release

Postby awong on Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:16 am

Our "Glacix" discussion has already shown up in google. I like Zwopper's mint leaf and snow theme idea for Glacix. I'll try to make time to do a full install this weekend of soon-to-be Glacix! :)
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Re: Mint Debian 6 Release

Postby Zwopper on Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:11 am

awong wrote:Our "Glacix" discussion has already shown up in google. I like Zwopper's mint leaf and snow theme idea for Glacix. I'll try to make time to do a full install this weekend of soon-to-be Glacix! :)

What we DO need is a unique Glacix logo, the mint leaf should imo not be mixed in to this.
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Re: Mint Debian 6 Release

Postby maybeway36 on Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:18 pm

I looked at the default Debian package lists to see what printing-related packages it installs.
For "desktop environment" (i.e. any of them) it will install:
Code: Select all
cups cups-bsd cups-client cups-driver-gutenprint foo2zjs foomatic-filters-ppds hp-ppd hpijs hplip printconf

For GNOME specifically, it adds "hal-cups-utils".
I'm thinking I should put these into the next version of Glacix. Thanks for the tip - I never would have known otherwise :)
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Re: Mint Debian 6 Release

Postby Zwopper on Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:33 pm

Artwork brainstorming here!
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Re: Mint Debian 6 Release

Postby rivenought on Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:58 pm

maybeway36,

Well, I was close on the printing packages. After looking at your list, I may have added more packages than necessary on my end. The printing is the only aspect I have had to comment on thus far. I am still driving it around. This is really quite stable.

Zwopper,

The artwork ideas are shaping up nicely. Everything looks good.
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