LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

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LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby ukbrian on Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:01 pm

Sorry for the shouting but it makes me angry when folk say such things.
I've seen some post on the forum that state one way or another that LMDE is not for novices, you need some Linux experience.

Well how many windows users could install windows for themselves?
I could install and configure 10 LMDE's in the time it takes to install XP, Vista or Windows 7 and tame it!
I install Linux because it's maintainance free, I wont be called up after a short period with "My machine is getting very slow"
or "My machine wont start any more" can you fix it. Image
With Linux I won't get bothered. :D

I'm retired living in sheltered accommodation and setup machines for some of the residents and friends.
I used to setup dual boot machines using XP and Ubuntu that autobooted into Windows after 5 seconds, since my happy discovery of LMDE they now autoboot into LMDE.
One lady, she's 90 years old, told me yesterday "I prefer that Windows to the other one" :D and all are happily using LMDE now. Image
I don't think I'll bother installing Windows in future which will save me doing a job I hate!, installing LMDE with the new installer tool is just pleasure, that installer is the best I have ever used.

They normally only use Firefox for Facebook, aMSM or Skype and Rythmbox and most, when they switch on, want Firefox to start up with Facebook loaded ready and the voip/chat app running sometimes Rythmbox as well playing their music.

Menus? they don't want to click on things first of all, I just put quick launchers on the top panel.

Just an old mans view of things, I could be wrong again, I generally am. Image but it was good to get it off my chest.

I would also like to take this opportunity for this newcomer to thank the Mint community for their warm welcome and kind words. Image
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby monkeyboy on Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:42 pm

New users come in all stripes and shapes. There are new users who can pick up an advanced Linux distro and make it work with a little help, dedication and research then there are new Linux users who are lucky if they can get a DVD into the drive. One of the main problems is that the forum is a place to not only look for help but also a place to troll and vent as well.
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If you can't do either ball your panties up and cry.

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However doing it in public is really hardcore.
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby ukbrian on Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:05 pm

monkeyboy wrote:New users come in all stripes and shapes. There are new users who can pick up an advanced Linux distro and make it work with a little help, dedication and research then there are new Linux users who are lucky if they can get a DVD into the drive. One of the main problems is that the forum is a place to not only look for help but also a place to troll and vent as well.
I was certainly not trolling and one thing I can not do is understand manuals! and I beg to differ
I was simply making the observation that most users do not install the OS on their machines they just use machines
and LMDE is a beautiful, simple OS for anybody to use.

Take installing Windows apps, you have to find them on the web first, then download them and then run the install program!, count the number of decisions a user has to make.

With LMDE you simply click on Software Manager, select a category, decide which app you want and click on an install button, can it get any easier, simpler, for an end user?
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby Mike54 on Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:35 pm

It is amazing how simplified some Linux distros have become. Particularly Mint and LMDE. But when I mention using Linux to people, they back away in fear. They have the perception using Linux is somehow difficult, when it's actually the opposite. At one point, a few months back, I decided I wanted to try to set up Debian on one machine. As i started looking closer, I decided my skill sets just were not at a high enough level. But when LMDE became available, I had absolutely no qualms about installing it over Mint 9. And I've no no difficulties, other than the rough edges I was warned about as I was coming in. And none of them have been anything I couldn't sort by using this forum and Google. And I am not one of those people that can easily fix it, should I break something.

If someone wanted a simple Internet, word processor box, what better distro is there? LMDE has been a real delight for me and I'm really excited for the future, when we see what can really happen with this 'experiMint'. :wink:
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby MALsPa on Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:14 pm

Rubbish? Clem said:

Although it’s using Romeo for unstable packages, LMDE continuously changes as it receives updates and new software. Compared to a frozen version of Linux Mint which changes very little once it’s publicly released, it’s not as stable. Things are likely to break more often but fixes can also come quicker. For this reason, LMDE requires a deeper knowledge and experience with Linux, dpkg and APT.


http://www.linuxmint.com/blog/?p=1527
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby ukbrian on Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:24 pm

Thanks for your feedback Mike54 after the last post I was thinking to ask the mods to remove this thread as I don't wish to annoy anyone.

I think the point is that installing a OS on a machine is totally different to using a machine and most folk just want to use a machine.
Does a car driver want to service or build the engine etc?

Nothing wrong with being proud of your abilities but to use LMDE does not require a high skill set, the exact opposite is my experience.
If you're installing for a someone else don't ask them, you will only confuse them,
just install LMDE and show them how to use it for 10 minutes. :D

LMDE is a dream OS that anybody can use if it's setup properly, my grand children love it.
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby secipolla on Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:36 pm

C'mon folks LMDE is very apt for newbies.
My first Linux was antiX. Why? I needed one for an old PIII and it has a simple installer and there was on the net a nice 40 video beginners tutorial on MEPIS from which antiX used the installer. By the time I didn't even know what md5sum was.

People that complain about it ain't newbies, rather are peope that want it to be Ubuntu or exactly like Mint Ubuntu editions. ukbrian's video at viewtopic.php?f=141&t=56065 is enough for a complete newbie to have his/hers own LMDE without further help. If that person has access to a virtual machine to try it out before, then a very young kid can do it (and no, these people won't have to install /home to a different partition or GRUB to the root folder etc.).
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby omenest on Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:16 pm

ukbrian wrote:Sorry for the shouting but it makes me angry when folk say such things.
I've seen some post on the forum that state one way or another that LMDE is not for novices, you need some Linux experience.

Well how many windows users could install windows for themselves?
I could install and configure 10 LMDE's in the time it takes to install XP, Vista or Windows 7 and tame it!
I install Linux because it's maintainance free, I wont be called up after a short period with "My machine is getting very slow"
or "My machine wont start any more" can you fix it. Image
With Linux I won't get bothered. :D

I'm retired living in sheltered accommodation and setup machines for some of the residents and friends.
I used to setup dual boot machines using XP and Ubuntu that autobooted into Windows after 5 seconds, since my happy discovery of LMDE they now autoboot into LMDE.
One lady, she's 90 years old, told me yesterday "I prefer that Windows to the other one" :D and all are happily using LMDE now. Image
I don't think I'll bother installing Windows in future which will save me doing a job I hate!, installing LMDE with the new installer tool is just pleasure, that installer is the best I have ever used.

They normally only use Firefox for Facebook, aMSM or Skype and Rythmbox and most, when they switch on, want Firefox to start up with Facebook loaded ready and the voip/chat app running sometimes Rythmbox as well playing their music.

Menus? they don't want to click on things first of all, I just put quick launchers on the top panel.

Just an old mans view of things, I could be wrong again, I generally am. Image but it was good to get it off my chest.

I would also like to take this opportunity for this newcomer to thank the Mint community for their warm welcome and kind words. Image
ukbrian


Hey man, you know what? Installing gnu/linux for 90 year old ladies makes you a hero in my eyes. Wish my old man had the spark of what you have in you, instead frowning at mobile phones and computers. :D Keep up the good work old chap :)
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby indaymadel on Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:45 pm

I'm new and it only took a little reading to install LMDE. :D

I'm kinda irritated to people who always said, "i'm not computer literate, i don't know how to do that, i don't know how to do this", where in fact, instructions is right in front of their screen. They're just too lazy to read what's written in this screen. Even if it's in the screen, "Enter your name and press enter", they ended up questioning, "What should I do"? :x
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby meandean on Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:10 pm

My ten year old can install debian. She just clicks on next/continue/yes until it is done.
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby ukbrian on Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:41 pm

indaymadel wrote:I'm new and it only took a little reading to install LMDE. :D

I'm kinda irritated to people who always said, "i'm not computer literate, i don't know how to do that, i don't know how to do this", where in fact, instructions is right in front of their screen. They're just too lazy to read what's written in this screen. Even if it's in the screen, "Enter your name and press enter", they ended up questioning, "What should I do"? :x

That's a young persons attitude if I may be so bold, older folk are afraid they'll do something wrong and break the expensive machine.
I remember when I first started with an old IBM pc,
I had sussed how to cd around the drive, list dir's and that 'bat, 'exe and 'com files did something so one day I typed in a command and a big flashing message appeared on the 12" screen saying "Disconnect the power immediately" which I did wondering what I had done.

An hour later I decided that if the machine was clever enough to send me a message then it would have protected itself from my actions so I turned it back on and it run as usual.

Later I found out that the command I ran and what scared the sh*t out of me, was to park the HDD heads :lol:

I can't understand manuals which is one reason I make video howtos, children or folk like me can watch them and then do whatever it is, it's quite amazing to watch really young kids watch a video a few times and then just do it.

In life you'll find lots of different types of folk and some will be to lazy to learn as you say but others just find things a bit more difficult.
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby monkeyboy on Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:44 pm

ukbrian wrote:
monkeyboy wrote:New users come in all stripes and shapes. There are new users who can pick up an advanced Linux distro and make it work with a little help, dedication and research then there are new Linux users who are lucky if they can get a DVD into the drive. One of the main problems is that the forum is a place to not only look for help but also a place to troll and vent as well.
I was certainly not trolling and one thing I can not do is understand manuals! and I beg to differ
I was simply making the observation that most users do not install the OS on their machines they just use machines
and LMDE is a beautiful, simple OS for anybody to use.

Take installing Windows apps, you have to find them on the web first, then download them and then run the install program!, count the number of decisions a user has to make.

With LMDE you simply click on Software Manager, select a category, decide which app you want and click on an install button, can it get any easier, simpler, for an end user?
ukbrian


No dude it was not a remark about you it was an observation about new users in general.
If you don't like it, make something better
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If you can't do either ball your panties up and cry.

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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby MALsPa on Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:22 am

Getting it installed is probably no big deal for a beginner. Same thing for simply using it after someone else has installed it for you.

Maintaining it, especially after the Testing repos open up, might be a different story.

Is everybody here ignoring what Clem said in the Linux Mint Blog post? "For this reason, LMDE requires a deeper knowledge and experience with Linux, dpkg and APT." If the guy behind it all say that it requires experience, it seems reasonable to pay attention to what he's saying, doesn't it?

Hopefully everything will go smoothly and beginners who are using Mint Debian right now won't run into very many problems. But it IS based on Debian Testing; if I was setting up LMDE for people who don't know anything about Linux, I'd be expecting some calls down the road.

Of course, no matter the distro, I probably wouldn't install Linux for someone unless I was willing to be available for support later. Because if they didn't take the initiative to learn how to install it for themselves, chances are they won't take the initiative to figure out how to fix it themselves when something goes wrong.

And from what I've heard, when something goes wrong with Debian Testing, it's quite often something major. The same may certainly apply for Mint Debian.

There's no way I'd install LMDE for anyone yet. Maybe later, after I've had a chance to see how things go. Maybe. But I think Clem's words should be taken to heart.
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby NCCarlos on Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:34 am

Excellent comments, MALsPa. I love debian testing and the experiences I've had with it, but installing it is the least challenge of running it long term.
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby meandean on Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:37 am

MALsPa wrote:Is everybody here ignoring what Clem said in the Linux Mint Blog post? "For this reason, LMDE requires a deeper knowledge and experience with Linux, dpkg and APT." If the guy behind it all say that it requires experience, it seems reasonable to pay attention to what he's saying, doesn't it?

Well of course he is going to say that because it is possible that problems will occur and I am sure he wants to issue a standard disclaimer so someone cannot later say 'it ate all my pr0n and nobody warned me' or similar.

That being said, lately the focus has been on keeping debian testing in usable shape so hopefully no major problems will occur.


Now with that being said, if I was setting it up for someone else then I would certainly track squeeze rather than testing. I see no reason to stick a 'regular' user on a constant upgrade cycle.
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby Gramps50 on Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:41 am

I will have to agree with ukbrian, installing and using are 2 totally didferent things. There is no way in h*** that my wife could install any Linux that I have seen she would be totally lost. What is on her laptop that she uses everyday LMDE. She uses to applications, Firefox for Googling and other web surfing and keeps the checkbook register on OpenOffice. For what ever reason she could never figure out how to do the samethings using Windows.

So can beginers use LMDE why they certainly can. Can they maintain it or install it maybe, maybe not.
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby tdockery97 on Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:24 am

Well I for one would rather stay on course with Testing and have a more up-to-date system than I would with Stable. I mean really, when Testing opens up to input from Sid again it's not the boogey-man coming! As long has you have been wise enough to keep a very current image of your system saved on disk/usb/wherever, then should your system be borked it is merely a 30 minute process to be back to where you started. If you don't want to image your system once a week then yes I recommend using Stable.
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby meandean on Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:29 am

I have 30gigs of pr0n on my 40gig hard drive. How do I image that? :wink:


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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby MALsPa on Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:50 am

meandean wrote:I have 30gigs of pr0n on my 40gig hard drive.


Perv.

Oh, yeah. Takes one to know one.
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby Oscar799 on Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:18 pm

meandean wrote:I have 30gigs of pr0n on my 40gig hard drive. How do I image that? :wink:


meandean,
That is too much information - we'd rather not know
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