LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby fluxlizard on Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:05 pm

Using software is simple and anyone with reasonable intelligence who has ever seen the software in operation can use it.

installing, updating, administrating is another matter...

some can easily drive a stick shift and some can easily deal with a package problem....others fall to pieces regarding either one...


well said.

So is a beginner's linux one that is easiest to drive, or easiest to maintain or easiest to install? Or just easiest to drive?

If it's just easiest to drive- an expert could set up and maintain any linux for a user and it would then be easy to drive... So by that definition they would all be beginner's linux from gentoo to ubuntu.

On the other hand, if it is easiest to maintain and install and get up and working properly, the list becomes much shorter (I would think regular mint and pclos and variants, maybe ubuntu).

At any rate, just my opinion.

Like I said- I am really enjoying LMDE for myself.
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby StratosJL on Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:10 am

ukbrian wrote:Sorry for the shouting but it makes me angry when folk say such things.
I've seen some post on the forum that state one way or another that LMDE is not for novices, you need some Linux experience.


I have installed LMDE and love it, although I'd rather use the 64bit version. However, it can be tricky for novice users, indeed.

http://laspas.gr/2010/09/12/linux-mint-debian-is-out/
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby MrD on Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:05 am

fluxlizard wrote:
Using software is simple and anyone with reasonable intelligence who has ever seen the software in operation can use it.

installing, updating, administrating is another matter...

some can easily drive a stick shift and some can easily deal with a package problem....others fall to pieces regarding either one...


well said.

So is a beginner's linux one that is easiest to drive, or easiest to maintain or easiest to install? Or just easiest to drive?

If it's just easiest to drive- an expert could set up and maintain any linux for a user and it would then be easy to drive... So by that definition they would all be beginner's linux from gentoo to ubuntu.

On the other hand, if it is easiest to maintain and install and get up and working properly, the list becomes much shorter (I would think regular mint and pclos and variants, maybe ubuntu).

At any rate, just my opinion.

Like I said- I am really enjoying LMDE for myself.


I can't do second languages, and this correlates to second OS's I guess. As an old DOSman I had to take a windows course to stop killing so many Windows isntalls. When Microsoft decided to give functions in software new names that were non-intuitive to my learned experience, I suffered and so did every pc I sat at :) But, I have managed to get to the point where I can use Mint for everything but where it simply cannot replicate due to lacking software functions.

lMDE does install easy, I'll give it that. Then we have to add fonts to get the ones comfortable with my eyes, go online via ethernet for wifi drivers which we install without the benefits of jockey, add a few more programs I like to use, use the fix for the single audio source problem with puleaudio. and still, I'm sat with error messages for firefox updating (not a real issue) Closing my laptop lid is now not restarting the OS when raising again. My Mintupdate hasn't been auto working for a while now (I have to manually check when i remember!)

Problems for sure, but no showstoppers that are making me get out the main edition yet.
Dell Inspiron 1520 - T6570 2.1ghz C2D, 4 gigs ram, integrated Intel 965 GPU, Intel replacement wifi card.
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby randomizer on Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:06 am

fluxlizard wrote:Well, most users want to be ignorant of the system.

Windows helps them achieve that goal, as does OSX. Ignorance is what:

1. Spreads malware efficiently
2. Makes social engineering and phishing attacks so effective, regardless of the operating system.
3. Allows Big Business to develop and distribute a problem (poorly configured OS) and a solution (security suites) and sell both.
4. Keeps tech support people in a job.

If a user wants to save money on tech support and fix-it-up software, as well as get the most out of their system without being conned into buying the next big whiz-bang system from [store near you] when they don't need it, they will need to gain some knowledge of their system. Technology penetration in Western society is reaching critical mass, yet technology understanding of society as a whole is nearly at rock bottom and dropping all the time as more and more people without a clue pick up the latest newfangled device that becomes obsolete when the TV ad says so.

Sometimes people just need to RTFM. I mean, when a user posts on a forum a question that would be more quickly answered by pasting it verbatim into Google, there is a problem.

I realise that this is somewhat of a tangent to the thread. I also commend ukbrian on his achievements with the elderly :) My grandmother is 92 and is a self-professed "computer hater" :lol:

EDIT: On a side note, it is important to note that one of Linux Mint's philosophies is to not baby you through everything and stop you making mistakes. Clem stated that in his LMDE feedback followup blog post. Mint should do what you tell it to, even if that means you will screw something up.
Last edited by randomizer on Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby ukbrian on Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:11 am

That was a surprise, since the particular installer had been translated in Greek just a few days before, in Launchpad (I should know, I did the translation ;) ).

:D Great article in the link and I agree with all you say about the installer but it is a work in progress.
I didn't find Ubuntu's installer very intuitive when you do a manual partitioning and at the final screen you have to click on an Advanced button to tell it where to put the boot loader, very easy to overlook.
Bypassing that obstacle in the following attempt, I then managed to overlook the boot installer screen, and let grub install on /dev/sda…

I think it needs some text above the combo box/list box saying "Installing boot loader to sda.." or something similar.
Using alt-F2 to start up a terminal, I found that the mount points were mixed up, because LMDE would try to find /dev/sdc, although the partition was now /dev/sdb (because the installation usb stick had been removed and there was only the laptop’s hdd and the usb hard drive, on which LMDE was installed). Looks like Debian uses static /sda and /sdb references (rather than the disk’s UUID) for partitions.

I think? that when you run the first update fstab gets changed to use UUID so I guess the installer will be changed to use UUID in the next release.
But the log-on password was in English! Off we go again…

How did you overcome this problem?

I don't set up a separate /home partition for my users, I set up a dual boot system at the moment that starts with a 20GB XP partition followed by a 20GB LMDE partition with an NTFS data partition using all the remaining space apart from the 2GB swap on the end.
I add this to the fsab
Code: Select all
UUID=420CF26D0CF25AFD    /home/brian/amd-data   ntfs-3g  defaults,uid=1000         0      0


As soon as my users start downloading data or add photo's etc then I introduce them to Nautilus and show them how to move their data around with a file manager and how to create folders and they normally start to think of that space as theirs. :D

I think your article at Stratos' Sphere http://laspas.gr/2010/09/12/linux-mint-debian-is-out/ is very well written, sorry about my poor English but I'm a working class lad, and I think you should copy/paste it into a new topic on this forum because it's the only text I have seen that deals with a non-english install plus your using USB's.
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Last edited by ukbrian on Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby randomizer on Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:17 am

ukbrian wrote:I didn't find Ubuntu's installer very intuitive when you do a manual partitioning and at the final screen you have to click on an Advanced button to tell it where to put the boot loader, very easy to overlook.

Indeed. Someone on Overclock.net overlooked it when installing Lucid a few days ago. Maverick puts it on the same screen as the partitioner. For some reason though if you change the default bootloader target and then make changes to the partitioning scheme it will reset the bootloader target to the default. I almost wiped my Windows bootloader because of this when playing with the RC. :shock:
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby ukbrian on Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:34 am

:lol:
I almost wiped my Windows bootloader because of this when playing with the RC. :shock:

I guess that's what happens when you give coders a dead line and your beta testers are leaving you.
They announced the ISO testing for the 10.10 RC release yesterday (10.10RC out tomorrow). I am not doing it. Another guy who is probably the very best ISO tester is not doing it. The bugger will probably not need a rebuild because no one will find the bugs. I hope it works.

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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby Wrinkly on Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:47 pm

LMDE is definitely ok for beginners. I should know :wink:

And even if it weren't, there's a load of friendly help right here on the forum :)
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby ruscook on Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:29 am

Wrinkly wrote:LMDE is definitely ok for beginners. I should know :wink:

And even if it weren't, there's a load of friendly help right here on the forum :)

Nicely put :)
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby scouser73 on Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:51 pm

I've just installed LMDE and I'm really liking what I've seen so far, as a former Ubuntu user I was hesitant to try something unfamiliar....well that's what I thought it was going to be anyway lol. I've been using Ubuntu for nearly three years now and with the direction that it's going in I decided to jump ship, the idea of a rolling release is excellent and I wish I'd installed sooner. The only niggle I've had so far was installing Google Earth, which has now been sorted.

I'm looking forward to being an active member of the Linux Mint community.
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby tdockery97 on Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:22 pm

And we're looking forward to having you here scouser73 :D
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby azathoth on Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:29 am

LMDE is extremely easy to deal with when compared to many other distros. The install itself is as easy as it comes. And it certainly isn't a "geeks distro". As far as setting it up, that part simply depends on what you are trying to do with it (as with all distros.)
LMDE is based on the testing branch of Debian and they don't call it testing for nothing. Some areas where linux experience can be helpful is when breakage occurs, it doesn't happen a lot but it can happen. A favorite app might stop working till a fix hits the repos, there could be an interruption in sound on some machines because an an alsa, pulse or kernel issue. Wifi or general connectivity issues could pop up out of nowhere...The list goes on. (that's the whole point of "testing") It's a fact of life when using testing or sid. They are development branches of Debian. Things may break and then you have to either figure out how to fix it or use something else until it's fixed in the repos. Many folks who are looking for an "out of the box" distro might have a little trouble with that part of it. Often the answer "you'll have to wait for the repos to catch up"' isn't acceptable to end users.
Personally I haven't had a prob lately with testing or sid but that doesn't mean it won't happen. It's a good idea to watch the Debian forums and bug trackers (don't mention you're using LMDE if you ask questions there, they'll usually just send you back here. lol)
Anyway, remember the OS itself is coming from the Debian repos and Clem and the team can't do a lot about that part of it.
So I think the biggest question is, are you prepared to deal with those contingencies?
LMDE and Debian testing (currently Squeeze) as they stand today are pretty solid. But they are by definition, moving targets. It might be a noobs distro today and a geek's distro tomorrow. Squeeze goes final next month I guess, which means the testing repos are going to fire up soon. It will be interesting to watch the forums here. I'm sure there will be quiet moments and rather busy ones too. Not trying to scare people off but these are the realities.
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Re: LMDE is not a beginners distro RUBISH, absolute piffle

Postby EdgarManhattan on Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:01 pm

I agree with the sentiment, LMDE is proving to be faster and nicer than standard Mint to run, once I got my audio problems ironed out ( viewtopic.php?f=141&t=58616 ) and I'm happier with a rolling distro.

I'm also an old guy, and I've been figuring out software and hardware problems for several decades, so I don't mind editing .conf files or doing the other tweaking that's usually necessary to get my system to run the way I want it to. And now that I've gotten things running properly, the next time a computer illiterate friend wants me to install an OS, I'll put on LMDE. Very easy to use, and I'll probably be around a few more years to help out if the rolling upgrades break something.
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