k3lt01 wrote:I haven't re-installed it yet, will probably do that on the weekend, but I think I will start with a Debian base and not use the LMDE LiveCD.
k3lt01 wrote:My definition of an "Off the shelf" distro is those that allow easy installation without installing extras that can cause unnecessary conflict with hardware. XP was an "off the shelf" OS, Vista most certainly wasn't when it first come out. Ubuntu, and I would assume the Ubuntu variations of MInt as well, are for the most part "off the shelf" distros because for the most part the installation actually only installs hardware related items that the PC needs. Notice I said for the most part, I say this because the Linux kernel itself is coming out with multiple hardware drivers (and quite rightly so to) pre-installed.
I'd be interested in feedback on how you find this process turns out. I believe it may be more problematic than you think to make it as functional as LMDE.k3lt01 wrote:If you consider the Debian base for LMDE then I do think if I start with a Debian base and add the Mint Packages that I require then yes I will have a modified LMDE.
I respect your choice to disagree but you need to consider the fact that XP did come out with everything needed to install when it was released. Vista did not. I never mentioned bloat, I said I don't understand the logic behind installing so many things that are basically for advanced users. If this is an experiment in creating a release that will become something for the average user then installing things the average user isn't going to use doesn't help.omns wrote:I disagree. No windows OS in its pure form (especially XP) is off the shelf. Many third party drivers and software are required to make it useable and often specific to the hardware of the machine. The OS itself can't be just installed on any hardware like a Linux distro. In this scenario the hardware's distributor makes it 'off the shelf', not the OS. Compare this with a Linux distribution where distributions are put together as an OS that can pretty much be installed on any hardware and will work productively straight after installation. When criticising what you consider to be bloated distros keep in mind what is trying to be achieved in terms of usability for all. What Ubuntu packs into a single CD really is quite amazing. Other distros do this in 4-500 mb - more amazing.
Well you would be very wrong then wouldn't you. I have used and played with RedHat and Fedora, don't like them but have played with them. May I suggest you ask what people have used before your observations indicate you are jumping to conclusions. I haven't said LMDE isn't simple to use, I did say it is a steeper learning curve than an "off the shelf" distro. Keyboard issues, FF issues, Flash installer issues, Mint Menu not being there when the LiveCD has it there issues, ndiswrapper issues, all of these things are easy to work around and repair but they shouldn't need repairing.omns wrote:My observation of your comments also indicates to me that your experience of Linux has been with Ubuntu and Debian based distros so far. I'd suggest looking further afield before declaring a release like LMDE the ultimate off the shelf learning experience. LMDE is rather simple to use, there really isn't a lot to be learnt in terms of the how Linux operates under the hood - as it were.
tdockery97 wrote:Me, I'll just take good old off-the-shelf Mint 10 Julia. I've learned what I want to know about Linux. I think I'll just use my computer for doing stuff now. LMDE was fun but high-maintenance. I really don't want to fix borkages with each update, or have to be very careful about what I allow to be updated. All of that takes much more time than doing a fresh version installation every 12 months or so.
It is highly possible that this is the case thus my reasoning in thinking that a ghost image with potentially conflicting packages/settings is not the best way to do LMDE. My laptop is an Acer and the hardware is generic but there seems to be conflicts in the settings from the squashfs image to my laptop.water spirit wrote: Perhaps your problems are hardware related.
k3lt01 wrote:I respect your choice to disagree but you need to consider the fact that XP did come out with everything needed to install when it was released.
XP in my experience, and I will be doing about 20 machines with XP next week for a community centre I work part time at, has never needed any extra disks for a standard machine of the same era as XP (Pentium 4 and Celeron). Sure if you want to go and install gaming motherboards and/or video cards then you will need extras but tell me how many, even now, Linux distributions support the full range of Gaming video cards. Fact is they don't, ATI can be a total pain in the proverbial, nVidia has issues to.omns wrote:k3lt01 wrote:I respect your choice to disagree but you need to consider the fact that XP did come out with everything needed to install when it was released.
That's simply not true. All my XP machines came with extra third-party drivers for audio, video, network cards, motherboards etc (on separate disks) that were required to make the machine function properly. They weren't part of the OS and any re-install from a XP disk would just bring up a very basic installation. Usually at a poor 8 bit resolution, no sound, no network and limited printer, scanner, webcam drivers etc. Am I missing something here or did you mean it could get a machine to a basic level where extra third-party stuff had to be added? I'm glad I don't have to do that with the more complete Linux distros. Vista had its issues with drivers and yes its hardware support was not good but this was mainly caused by incompatibility with XP drivers after an upgrade.
Linux supports more processors than any other operating system ever has. Yes, we passed the NetBSD people a few years ago in the number of different processor families and types that we support now. No other "major" operating system even comes remotely close in platform support for what we have in Linux. Linux now runs in everything from a cellphone, to a radio controlled helicopter, your desktop, a server on the internet, on up to a huge 73% of the TOP500 largest supercomputers in the world.
And remember, almost every different driver that we support, runs on every one of those different platforms. This is something that no one else has ever done in the history of computing. It's just amazing at how flexible and how powerful Linux is this way.
We now have the most scalable and most supported operating system that has ever been created. We have achieved something that is so unique and different and flexible that for people to keep repeating the "Linux doesn't support hardware" myth, is something that everyone needs to stop repeating. As it simply isn't true anymore.
k3lt01 wrote:Sooooo, if you don't mind I would appreciate it IF you would now keep to the point of this thread which is "My initial observations of LMDE". Thank you.
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