Development

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Re: Development

Postby be80be on Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:47 pm

Hey maybe we can have i Debian mintlinux that's rolled out of Debian and added the mint look i'm going to put up a live cd with the mint feel but all Debian I would
like to use some of the art work that has been posted viewtopic.php?f=141&t=8554#p53099 if that is OK I'm not to good at the art department i made 1 live cd with xfce I dont want to take away from mint just added to it. if any 1 would like to help thay can email me at be80be@gmail.com or post at my blog http://www.mybe80be.com/blog.html
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Re: Development

Postby sundayrefugee on Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:56 pm

be80be wrote:Hey maybe we can have i Debian mintlinux that's rolled out of Debian and added the mint look i'm going to put up a live cd with the mint feel but all Debian I would
like to use some of the art work that has been posted http://www.linuxmint.com/forum/viewtopi ... 554#p53099 if that is OK I'm not to good at the art department i made 1 live cd with xfce I dont want to take away from mint just added to it. if any 1 would like to help thay can email me at be80be@gmail.com or post at my blog http://www.mybe80be.com/blog.html


I don't think that would be a very good idea at all ;) You're not even talking about forking, but about making a debian livecd with Mint art.

Unless I'm *severely* mistaken, that's going to be a BIG no-no ;-) Such a product would not be Mint, not be a Mint Edition, and would not be sanctioned, sponsored, or recognized in any way by Mint. You cannot simply use Mint Art (themes, logo, background, etc...) because it looks good. It's a brand-name, and carries certain expectations associated with it. See the Ultumix thread for more detail ;-)
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Re: Development

Postby be80be on Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:44 am

Mint Debian CE-edition. I didn't say i just wanted the take . I don't and i don't want to take away from mint just added to it.and It will have more then the art work. It would be a CE-edition I made a Debian Mint with all the things that is in the Gnome Mint Debian CE-edition but used Xfce4 It worked very good I just wanted to help with the this. The CE stands for Community Edition I was just going to put up what i did so it could be pulled in to this people have said that thy would put up the dream installer I was just asking, if not I have things to work on any way. There all forks from Debian I've used Linux for more then 10 years it's all part of add on"s that we added. I think Mint is Great I use it every day I love the desktop that Daryna has. And I hope thy Keep up the good work.
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Re: Development

Postby sundayrefugee on Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:53 am

be80be wrote:Mint Debian CE-edition. I didn't say i just wanted the take . I don't and i don't want to take away from mint just added to it.and It will have more then the art work. It would be a CE-edition I made a Debian Mint with all the things that is in the Gnome Mint Debian CE-edition but used Xfce4 It worked very good I just wanted to help with the this. The CE stands for Community Edition I was just going to put up what i did so it could be pulled in to this people have said that thy would put up the dream installer I was just asking, if not I have things to work on any way. There all forks from Debian I've used Linux for more then 10 years it's all part of add on"s that we added. I think Mint is Great I use it every day I love the desktop that Daryna has. And I hope thy Keep up the good work.


Well, there's 3 qualifiers to be called the "Mint Debian CE Edition". It has to perpetually use testing, it has to use GNOME, not XFCE, and it has to have the permission of Clem, pass his scrutiny and quality control team, and no small amount of collaboration. You simply cannot take the Mint Tools and Artwork, put them into Debian (although that IS quite an accomplishment!) and call it "Mint Debian CE Edition".

This is what's known as a fork. Now, Clem is very insistent that Mint tools are open source and to be shared. By modifying them to your needs, you are passing them on in the true spirit of open source. But you'll have to remove and Mint branding, including logos, artwork, etc... and replace them with your own, as your project is more properly a fork, and not an "official", or "Community" edition ;-) You'll also have to come up with a different name, as Clem (rightly so) is strict about forks claiming they are Mint editions, when in fact they are independant forks or spins.

Now, you may wish to talk to Clem and see if you are up to the task I recently passed on (at this time), undertaking the "official" community edition, if you'd like to maintain the Debian Community Edition. However, there are the qualifiers above, and you may wish to re-read through my posts to get an idea of the enormity of the task when using GNOME and not XFCE, KDE, or nearly any other desktop environment ;-)

This is all not to say that you aren't doing a fantastic job in your project, and that it isn't worthwhile, but that it isn't the "Debian *Mint* Community Edition" until *Clem* says it is, and to release a product under that name, that doesn't meet his specifications, is again a HUGE no-no ;-)
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Re: Development

Postby VaMPiRiC_CRoW on Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:02 pm

How is this project?
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Re: Development

Postby sundayrefugee on Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:07 am

VaMPiRiC_CRoW wrote:How is this project?


Dead, as far as I know, unless there are others willing to hack with me :-(
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Re: Development

Postby cmost on Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:39 pm

I see no reason to reinvent the wheel. Parsix Linux is what we're looking for. It's Debian Testing with Gnome 2.20.3 and some custom tools. I have been playing around with this distribution since it's 1.0x release a few weeks ago and I'm quite impressed. Impressed enough to make the move to it perhaps. It seems to have Ubuntu's look and feel but pure Debian Testing power under the hood. While Parsix is still in its own infancy at this point, it really should be the inspiration for Linux Mint. I'm not suggesting the Mint community steal Parsix, add Mint tools and Mint logos all over it and release it as Debian Mint. I am strongly encouraging some communication with the Parsix community and perhaps a cooperation that might eventually give birth to a Minty Debian while also benefiting the Parsix community. (I bet they would love to take advantage of some of Mint's tools.) This is my suggestion and the direction I think the Debian Mint CE community should venture should it decide to go forward with developing Debian Mint CE. clearly the interest in a Debian Mint is here but our community most definitely lacks the needed expertise and other resources needed to pull this off from scratch.

Check out Parsix Linux here:
http://www.parsix.org/html/index.php

Check out a review of Parsix here:
http://www.linux.com/feature/127394
and here:
http://www.linuxlove.org/2008/01/28/fir ... n-edition/

Comments?
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Re: Development

Postby Chang on Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:00 pm

What about Dream? Sidux? Kanotix?
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Re: Development

Postby cmost on Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:22 pm

Dream Linux = Debian Stable (as already stated, it's too old for Mint tools)
Sidux = Debian Unstable (too unstable! Would require constant developer intervention to ensure some level of day to day usability.)
Kanotix = Debian Stable (again, too old for Mint tools)

As has been stated numerous times in this thread: Working with Debian Testing or Debian Unstable by their very definitions, results in an unstable system. Doing so will require a dedicated and talented team. Ubuntu avoids this by taking a snapshot of Debian Testing, and then tweaking those packages (with an army of developers) to stabilize them and integrate them well into a cohesive desktop. No updated packages are added to Ubuntu repositories once they're frozen (security and bug fixes are back-ported.)
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Re: Development

Postby Chang on Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:43 pm

Then you are forgetting the speed and customizability clean Debian offers over Ubuntu, as well as a unfrozen repo, a double edged sword you may say.
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Re: Development

Postby phantommaggot on Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:19 pm

so, it seems that this dream hasnt completely died out..

im really hoping it catches back up. if mint could get a little less bulky and a little faster it would be amazing!!
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Re: Development

Postby exploder on Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:22 pm

Why not try and build off of the stable Debian release? Update the kernel and packages to known working versions and then freeze the code until the next release? The question would remain about which repos to install additional packages from though...Just my two cents!
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Re: Development

Postby sundayrefugee on Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:44 am

exploder wrote:Why not try and build off of the stable Debian release? Update the kernel and packages to known working versions and then freeze the code until the next release? The question would remain about which repos to install additional packages from though...Just my two cents!


Well, that had been my original idea - shooting for a release coinciding with Lenny becoming stable, and working with that as a base. That would give a nice, lean base, letting us lean on Debian Stable Lenny for most updates. However, like Etch, it would get outdated fairly quickly, and Clem would like something that stays fairly current, which requires life in the Testing repo. Sid is right out of the question for GNOME ;-)

As notoriously difficult as GNOME is in Testing, that's not *necessarily* the most difficult part ;) I could wrangle GNOME testing and make it play nicely with Mint tools and be fairly stable myself. The problem, and where manpower comes in, is that it would take a constant, perpetual team of package watchers and testers to be *very* careful what we were letting through Mint updates, fixing bugs, adjusting pinning, *constantly* uploading to the Debian MInt repo, tagging, etc... to keep up with a rolling distro, especially one that would want to snapshot through Mint Update every 2 weeks.

It's just too much work for any 1, 2, or 3 people to do, no matter *how* talented they are, and no matter *how* much they know.

Going the other way - freezing Debian at some snapshot in time, tweaking it, bug-fixing, etc... works. The problem is, there's already an organization that does this - Ubuntu. It would be utterly redundant to do the same thing :cry:

So, there's just *no win* for a pure Debian base without sufficient volunteers. I am, myself, unwilling to base on another distro. cmost looks like he's ready to give it a shot, though...
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