Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Postby clem on Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:47 pm

I'm not going to argue whether Gnome Shell is a good or a bad desktop. It's just not what we're looking for. The user experience the Gnome team is trying to create isn't the one we're interested in providing to our users. There are core features and components we absolutely need, and because they're not there in Gnome Shell, we had to add them using extensions with MGSE. The extension system in Gnome Shell is handy but core parts of a desktop need to be able to communicate with each others and be integrated properly. The Gnome development team is not interested in the features we implemented, it's opposed to adding them to Gnome Shell, and it doesn't share our vision of a desktop. In other words, our work on Gnome 3 does not influence the development of Gnome Shell, Gnome Shell isn't going in a direction that is suitable for us, and we're not interested in shipping Gnome Shell "as is", or in continuing with multiple hacks and extensions.

MATE is different. It just needs time to mature but it provides what most of our Gnome 2 users want. We're currently working on releasing version 1.2.0 (which unstable release is in testing at the moment). I personally have high hopes for MATE and whatever we do with Cinnamon, it's comforting people still have the choice to run what is now coming really close to what Gnome 2 was.

Cinnamon is ALPHA but it starts with a stable fork of Gnome Shell 3.2.1 and the features present in MGSE. It works well and it's already a better implementation of what we want from a desktop than Gnome Shell and MGSE. Its aim isn't to reproduce exactly Gnome 2, like MATE does, but to innovate and do something new... By new, I don't mean new paradigms. There's a new generation of desktops out there, including Gnome Shell and Unity. These desktops are shiny, they look good and they're slowly gaining popularity. They're based on new and exciting technologies but they also come with a cost... they're re-inventing the way we use our computer. It's neither right or wrong of course, but it will only appeal to a certain category of users.. and there are a lot of people out there, myself included, who aren't convinced the traditional desktops were bad and who are concerned about not having a choice as more and more people switch towards these new technologies. With Cinnamon we're jumping on these new technologies and we're able to provide something that looks as modern as Unity and Shell, without reinventing the wheel when it comes to user experience. As a distribution we're also guaranteeing we can provide a desktop which implements the vision we have for Linux Mint. And finally, we can add much more many features, integrate our own technology into the desktop itself and do all of this cleanly as opposed to using patches and hacks.

If I had to summarize all of this, I'd simply tell you: We pick the best components for our releases, but if we don't find what we're looking for, we get involved. Gnome Shell isn't what we want and we can't change it to our liking. The one thing we want for Linux Mint 13 is a desktop people can use and say "this is better than Gnome 2". It's ambitious, we made the first steps with MGSE, but more work is needed and we won't achieve this goal simply by writing extensions.
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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Postby z06gal on Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:26 pm

There is no one who attempts to make his users happy the way Clem does and I appreciate that. There have been so many screaming over the changes instead of giving Clem the opportunity to do what he always does = provide a stable, pleasant, elegant DE that just works :wink:
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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Postby tdockery97 on Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:35 pm

I'm going to add it tonight and see how it looks. Thanks Clem.
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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Postby z06gal on Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:41 pm

Looks good for an alpha. One question though, how do you change themes?
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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Postby z06gal on Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:41 pm

Looks good for an alpha. One question though, how do you change themes?


Edit: Nevermind. I couldn't find advance settings at first. Is there a way to change the panel appearance? I'd love to darken it :wink:
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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Postby bluesman on Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:14 am

Yeah! It looks pretty good
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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Postby burak on Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:00 am

This has finally made me decide to settle with Mint and donate (a little).

I've removed MGSE some time ago and am instead using only the extensions from extensions.gnome.org, because I need (Flippery) panel favourites, (dislike and don't need two panels in my 27" screen) and the Shell's crashed with the MGSE+Flippery combination. Yet without MGSE I'm not satisfied either mainly as:

1. I hate the annoying, dysfunctional applets hidden somewhere else (at the bottom) which cannot be made perfectly functional even by an (unoffical) extension.

2. And I hate also not being given the sane defaults/choices and being forced to tinker with extensions which may either become obsolete or worse crash the Shell again (and again and again?).
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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Postby eco2geek on Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:09 am

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but most of Cinnamon appears to be coded in Javascript, as is MGSE -- meaning, the menu is pretty slow. (Which is also my main gripe with the menu in MGSE.) Do you have any plans to speed it up by using something other than a scripting language?

(One would assume that you're aiming at recreating something close to the traditional Mint menu.)
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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Postby drumBE on Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:24 am

Installed, and works fine
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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Postby mank_in on Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:26 am

I am usually use MATE DE but i will try use this . I preferred cinnamon than MGSE. Cinnamon is MGSE with one bottom panel :)
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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Postby Monsta on Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:27 am

clem wrote:The one thing we want for Linux Mint 13 is a desktop people can use and say "this is better than Gnome 2".


*stands up and applauds*
Seriously. Once again, as it was with MATE, it seems to be the most correct decision under the circumstances. :)

I have one (somewhat offtopic) question though: will the same be done for LMDE?

clem wrote:@All (about LMDE): We’re holding the updates on LMDE at the moment for two reasons: X11 is broken upstream and Debian is in the process of updating Gnome to version 3 in testing. When Gnome 3.2 and X11 are healthy in Debian testing we’ll release a new update pack along with MATE packages and MGSE for LMDE.

I see this was written on november 4th. Is the plan still the same? Or will we see Cinnamon instead of Shell+MGSE in Update Pack 4? :)
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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Postby Rehdon on Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:51 am

eco2geek wrote:Please correct me if I'm wrong, but most of Cinnamon appears to be coded in Javascript, as is MGSE -- meaning, the menu is pretty slow. (Which is also my main gripe with the menu in MGSE.) Do you have any plans to speed it up by using something other than a scripting language?

(One would assume that you're aiming at recreating something close to the traditional Mint menu.)


This is why I'm using Cardapio instead of the standard LM menu, the disadvantage being that it appears after the Activities label: from time to time I go with the mouse pointer to the left corner of my desktop, which of course means activating the GS overview mode.

But all in all I'm quite happy with LM because thanks to MGSE and to other extensions I have a choice: I can shape the desktop the way I like, which, and this is interesting, doesn't mean replicating exactly the Gnome 2 experience. For instance, I'm actually using the GS overlay mode to quickly browse my workspaces' content and move to the desired application. The downside is that this mix and match of different components makes it easier to make the system unstable: sometimes GS restarts automatically, a couple of times the whole system froze dead.

Cinnamon looks like a good idea to me, then, I only hope it will retain configurability and flexibility. Also it will be tricky to innovate the old (and somewhat stale) Gnome 2 layout: a lot of testing will be required, the potential is huge though.

BTW, can I safely install this in parallel to my current LM 12 system? or would it be better to test a live system?

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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Postby lurkatron on Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:42 am

does compiz work with this thing ?
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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Postby Daniel4lm on Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:56 am

lurkatron wrote:does compiz work with this thing ?

No. Gnome shell have Mutter, but with a little rubbing on the code can be obtained almost the same effects as Compiz.
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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Postby raqua on Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:06 am

The only two effects I really care for in compiz (and the reason I use it) are placement of windows and windows tiling. It would be sweet if this supports similar functionality.
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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Postby zerozero on Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:51 am

Monsta wrote:I have one (somewhat offtopic) question though: will the same be done for LMDE?

clem wrote:@All (about LMDE): We’re holding the updates on LMDE at the moment for two reasons: X11 is broken upstream and Debian is in the process of updating Gnome to version 3 in testing. When Gnome 3.2 and X11 are healthy in Debian testing we’ll release a new update pack along with MATE packages and MGSE for LMDE.

I see this was written on november 4th. Is the plan still the same? Or will we see Cinnamon instead of Shell+MGSE in Update Pack 4? :)

i believe (and it's only my personal opinion) that Cinnamon will replace MGSE in LMDE as well:
this issue page in github gives us the idea that MGSE is to be "merged" into Cinnamon https://github.com/linuxmint/Cinnamon/issues/9
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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Postby lurkatron on Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:23 am

raqua wrote:The only two effects I really care for in compiz (and the reason I use it) are placement of windows and windows tiling. It would be sweet if this supports similar functionality.


yup, fixed window placement is the reason i miss compiz too
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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Postby sprintcowboy on Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:46 pm

Linux Mint is back. I like it. Looking good.
This is what i was expecting in LM12.

Clem I like that you kept the hot corner for the overview and that it is the windows overview only with the workspaces, so you are able to move your widows to another workspace.
I like that the me menu, whatever it is called, is gone and that the logout shutdown is back in the menu.
I also like the color of the menu and panel.
I like the calendar to.

Not sure if you wont feedback but here it is.
Instead of the new workspace being added to the panel each time you open a new one could it just be the box like it is now but use the scroll-wheel on mouse over to access the workspace you wont and of course show the workspace number your on.
Workspace Indicator Extension, got it from webupe8, is a good example of what I am suggesting only deference is it says workspace and the number instead of just the number.

Also need a way to add launchers to the panel, you are probably working on this.

I have a few questions.
I use CPUTemp Extension, and Weather Indicator Extension.
Will Cinnamon use gnome-shell-extension or something else so I can add these two features the panel.

Thanks for all your hard work, it is greatly appreciated.
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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Postby lurkatron on Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:32 pm

didnt work,installed cinnamon and cinnamon-session
just left with a blank desktop + conky (and therefore reminds me of unity, difference is that i could rightclick and open a terminal and even type into it)
not sure why, maybe its tied in with gnome-shell and all the extensions ive got or something
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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Postby bimsebasse on Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:46 pm

This thing is gonna ruin my christmas holidays - I'm gonna be itching for it to be over so I can play with this thing :D
Thank you for this thread. That’s all I can say. You most definitely have made this forum into something special. You clearly know what you are doing, you’ve covered so many bases. Thanks!
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