"What does Cinnamon bring...?"

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"What does Cinnamon bring...?"

Postby MALsPa on Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:45 am

Article: http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2012/01/03/wh ... e-desktop/

I would love to read your comments on this one.
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Re: "What does Cinnamon bring...?"

Postby twodogs on Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:16 am

Cinnamon is new. It is not finished and of course there are going to be bugs.

I do agree that the 'Activities' is useless. Mint Menu will be just fine with some kind of workplace switcher on the bottom panel.
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Re: "What does Cinnamon bring...?"

Postby altair4 on Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:20 am

There's a passage in that article that I'm not sure how to interpret:
And the Frippery Static Workspaces extension available at http://extensions.gnome.org is not compatible with Cinnamon. Actually, all extensions available on that website are not compatible with Cinnamon.

It almost sounds like that's a bad thing.

Read the definition of what an extension is at https://extensions.gnome.org/about/
The code in a GNOME Shell extension becomes part of the core operating system. For this reason, the potential exists for an extension to cause system misbehavior, crashes, or even to have malicious behavior like spying on the user or displaying unwanted advertisements. All extensions uploaded to this site are carefully reviewed for malicious behavior before they are made available for download. This process of code review is similar to the process for Firefox add-ons submitted to addons.mozilla.org.

Checking to see if a given extension is doing anything malicious is great but that's not a "code review". A code review is in part something that is done in the presence of peer developers but more importantly in the presence of some one who has the depth and breadth of experience to know the interdependencies of the different components of the overall application and who tries to make sure that it communicates properly with and more importantly does not break something else.
Please add a [SOLVED] at the end of your original subject header if your question has been answered and solved.
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Re: "What does Cinnamon bring...?"

Postby tdockery97 on Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:41 am

The lack of extension compatibility is intentional. Clem has stated that his intention is to make Cinnamon configurable at the coding level rather than needing extensions to do so. I'm sure that as Cinnamon matures, it will become easier to configure to your particular taste. From what I understand from a few other posts, if you are willing to spend a small amount of time learning how the configurations are set, you can reconfigure almost anything on the desktop using gconf/dconf.
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Re: "What does Cinnamon bring...?"

Postby MALsPa on Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:51 am

Having not yet tried Cinnamon, the impression I got from this article was that Cinnamon is a GNOME 2-type desktop built on GNOME 3, but making some of GNOME 3's features (the Activies Overview, the dynamic workspaces) irrelevant. (I happen to like the activities overview, and I'm finding that I prefer dynamic workspaces to fixed ones, but I understand that not everyone feels the same way.)

This sentence really struck me:

Cinnamon is another attempt to make the GNOME 3 desktop acceptable to those in the community who have so far refused to have an unpalatable substance rammed down their throats.


I have never felt that way about GNOME 3, but again, I understand that others do feel that way.

Well, as Cinnamon is still a work-in-progress, I hope (for the sake of others) that it develops into what everyone is hoping for it to be. Looks like folks want to make GNOME 3 into a "traditional" desktop, or as close to that as possible.

I'm finding GNONE Shell to be very pleasant to work with, and I'm not sure that Cinammon "brings" much, but rather, tries to take us back to GNOME 2. Nothing wrong with that, I guess, if that's what you prefer. I'll have to take a closer look at some point, because it kinda seems to me that Xfce comes closer to GNOME 2 than Cinammon does...
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Re: "What does Cinnamon bring...?"

Postby viking777 on Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:22 am

I'm finding GNONE Shell to be very pleasant to work with,


Me too MALsPa. (although it did take a lot of extensions to make it sensible)

Certainly I applaud Clem's intentions to make Cinnamon user configurable because as users we can argue forever about what the 'best' experience is, and never agree. From my point of view though I would rather have a DE that I can configure to my liking from built in tools rather than one that relies (very heavily in my case) on externally provided add-ons as gnome-shell does. However I particularly like the dash and applications menu in overview mode of gnome-shell and if that is not one of the options available in Cinnamon then I for one won't be using it, I will just put up with 14 extensions on gnome-shell! This overview arrangement is miles better than a panel menu and launchers to my taste.

Edit. And now I have the proof that we are right and the rest are wrong:

http://www.linuxjournal.com/slideshow/r ... 11?page=44

That should stir up a hornet's nest :lol:
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Re: "What does Cinnamon bring...?"

Postby craig10x on Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:48 am

I use the "search function" in Cinnamon's slab menu exactly the same way as i did in the unity "dash" when i was using ubuntu 11.10...so i don't really see a difference..other then it doesn't bring up a whole series of colorful program "icons" like the dash does (or the search on gnome 3 shell)...so i really don't see any less functionality there :wink:

Also..at least in it's present configuration....when you hit the infinity button on the top left corner it brings up the workspaces just like it does in gnome shell or unity...again...not seeing any real difference...

What makes Cinnamon nicer to use...that i am finding...is that unlike either unity or gnome shell, you have the 1 panel on bottom (which i prefer over top panel) and the cool mint slab menu which makes it easy to locate programs on the various lists within it, or use the search feature as well, just as it was on the old mint on gnome 2...
I think that is what makes it nicer then either unity or gnome shell with extensions...

And of course, you can add your favorites to the slab menu for very quick access...just like you can on the other two (unity and gnome 3 shell)

Lastly, it is nicer to be able to configure in the program itself then have to bring extensions in to do it...also brings in better stability to the system...
Which is an advantage the ubuntu with unity has over gnome shell w/extensions...and it's an advantage Cinnamon ALSO brings to the "table"....but in the case of ubuntu...you have to "dig the unity side bar" :lol: and if you don't then Cinnamon is certainly a better choice... :D

I think it was a great move on Clem's part and the impression i am getting is that it is quickly becoming the preferred desktop session for mint main edition...
I know i already feel that way...even though it doesn't have all the features and easy configuring in it yet...
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Re: "What does Cinnamon bring...?"

Postby mikemmm on Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:16 pm

viking777 wrote:
And now I have the proof that we are right and the rest are wrong:

http://www.linuxjournal.com/slideshow/r ... 11?page=44

That should stir up a hornet's nest :lol:


Keep in mind that this award was made by the same people that named Ubuntu the "best Linux distribtion" last year despite its introduction of Unity. Apparently it doesn't base its rankings on user opinions of the actual software, just the impact (good or bad) that the software has.
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Re: "What does Cinnamon bring...?"

Postby viking777 on Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:25 pm

@craig10x

It is like I said in my previous post, individual users can argue this one till the end of time and never agree.

Like yourself I prefer a bottom panel and I have never, and will never, use more than one panel at a time, such an idea is absurd to my mind and always has been (unless you hide one of them, and I am not over keen on that either). But given that single panel preference it has to contain quite a lot, and that is why it should be reserved mainly for the taskbar, but also for the systray and clock (and if you have a taskbar that displays all open windows instead of just the ones on the present workspace then a workspace switcher is redundant as well). In order to make room for this, the menu/favourites list needs to be moved, and it finally has been, not only that but it has been moved to a place where it is every bit as accessible as it is in the panel. I applaud the gnome3 devs for pulling that off, it was a brilliant stroke, and I personally never want to see a menu cluttering up my panel again - but refer back to my opening sentence :D
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Re: "What does Cinnamon bring...?"

Postby craig10x on Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:49 pm

that's cool...viking777 you prefer menu-less and many of us seem to prefer menu...different strokes for different folks :lol:
well, don't forget...one always has the option of using bare bones gnome shell...gnome shell with extensions...or MGSE with or without additional extensions...as they would choose...

but for mint's default session, i think he has really "got it" with Cinnamon :wink:

also, i might mention...that the Cinnamon Session is becoming very popular by users of other distros as well...such as ubuntu, fedora, arch linux, open suse, and others...
so there is an awful lot of interest in this project...i think that speaks volumes :)
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Re: "What does Cinnamon bring...?"

Postby bimsebasse on Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:51 pm

MALsPa wrote:Article: http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2012/01/03/wh ... e-desktop/

I would love to read your comments on this one.


The author forgets that Cinnamon is under development and hasn't seen a final release, he also hasn't done his research properly regarding extensions as the intention according to Clem in the recent blog post still is to add support for extensions at some point, it just requires a bit of footwork initially compared with Gnome Shell because existing GS extensions have to be ported to Cinnamon first, but that's a fairly easy task, though you're of course not gonna be able to use Gnome's new extensions website.

I don't agree that the overview should be removed but it needs an overhaul - the Themes tab ought to go back in Advanced Settings where it belongs, and the current overview launch methods look like what they are, marooned leftovers from Gnome Shell. The infinity icon makes no sense symbolically and gets in the way on top of windows, and the hot corner is probably not the best idea for a desktop aimed directly and only at traditionalists. The overview could also do with a keyboard combo a bit more intuitive than CTRL+ALT+UP (which you can't do with one hand) and an icon in the bottom panel, if at all (an icon that makes sense, a window icon or something).
Thank you for this thread. That’s all I can say. You most definitely have made this forum into something special. You clearly know what you are doing, you’ve covered so many bases. Thanks!
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Re: "What does Cinnamon bring...?"

Postby MALsPa on Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:30 am

craig10x wrote:also, i might mention...that the Cinnamon Session is becoming very popular by users of other distros as well...such as ubuntu, fedora, arch linux, open suse, and others...
so there is an awful lot of interest in this project...i think that speaks volumes :)


Yeah, Fedora 16 is one of the distros I'm running here, and now Cinnamon is available for it:

http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2012/01/04/ho ... fedora-16/

A thread about it at the Fedora forums: http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=274611

I'll probably hold off on Cinnamon just a bit. I generally don't like to jump in right away with any type of new software. But Cinnamon looks good, and I'm always open to trying out any environment.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm finding that I prefer "dynamic workspaces" over having a fixed number of workspaces, and I see in the screenshots that Cinnamon has some sort of workspace pager down on the far right side of the panel. In the activities overview in GNOME Shell, I can see which apps I have running in each workspace, and drag apps from one workspace to another and so forth. Does Cinnamon's "pager" (is it called something else?) allow you to do things like that? For example, what happens when the cursor hovers over a workspace icon down there?

By the way, thanks for the replies, folks, you've got my interest stoked! 8)
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Re: "What does Cinnamon bring...?"

Postby craig10x on Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:48 am

oh it works great already (hard to believe it is an "alpha" as it sure doesn't feel like one as it is VERY STABLE...lol) just doesn't have all the features and a special "system settings" application to make all the adjustments in yet)...but already you can add and remove favorites to the menu (with just a right click of mouse) and same for the panel too...each new version will have more added features... :wink:

yes..it is very cool 8) Think you will like it a lot :D
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Re: "What does Cinnamon bring...?"

Postby bimsebasse on Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:09 am

oh it works great already (hard to believe it is an "alpha" as it sure doesn't feel like one as it is VERY STABLE...lol)


To be fair there's a difference between an alpha of something written from scratch and an alpha of a fork of something that has already gone through testing, the latter alpha is bound to be more stable. It is impressive how glitch-free it is though, and when you reset Cinnamon it's not 50/50 whether your reset shell has window borders or not. I haven't had a single Cinnamon reset failure. Still far from lightning fast (popup menus appearing instantly when you press panel buttons), hope that changes not far from now.
Thank you for this thread. That’s all I can say. You most definitely have made this forum into something special. You clearly know what you are doing, you’ve covered so many bases. Thanks!
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Re: "What does Cinnamon bring...?"

Postby Rehdon on Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:11 am

bimsebasse wrote:The author forgets that Cinnamon is under development and hasn't seen a final release, he also hasn't done his research properly regarding extensions as the intention according to Clem in the recent blog post still is to add support for extensions at some point, it just requires a bit of footwork initially compared with Gnome Shell because existing GS extensions have to be ported to Cinnamon first, but that's a fairly easy task, though you're of course not gonna be able to use Gnome's new extensions website.

I don't agree that the overview should be removed but it needs an overhaul - the Themes tab ought to go back in Advanced Settings where it belongs, and the current overview launch methods look like what they are, marooned leftovers from Gnome Shell. The infinity icon makes no sense symbolically and gets in the way on top of windows, and the hot corner is probably not the best idea for a desktop aimed directly and only at traditionalists. The overview could also do with a keyboard combo a bit more intuitive than CTRL+ALT+UP (which you can't do with one hand) and an icon in the bottom panel, if at all (an icon that makes sense, a window icon or something).


Agreed on all points, unfortunately I made similar comments on another thread >_< To sum it up: IMHO overview has to be enriched by use of the Journal and similar extensions.

About Cinnamon being under development: it's unfortunate that the current version number is 1.x.x, because that implies that a finished and stable version has been released at some point.

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