Bugs, but no reporting system. Certification.

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Bugs, but no reporting system. Certification.

Postby ehasl on Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:53 am

Mint 4.0 has bugs, but there is no bug reporting system for Mint-specific applications.

I started my computer without any extra programs and checked the system monitor. It said I had used 133 MB of memory (which is a lot also). Mintupdate failed the first try because my wireless connection was not ready. I clicked the icon and chose "reload". No updates are found, but the system monitor shows around 15 MB higher memory usage. I repeat, and each search increases the memory usage comparably without giving me any results. At some point the memory increase/leaking seems to stop.

I have made Mintupdate find updates twice, I think. I tried today, and it found none. Then I opened Synaptic, and it found two.

The package certification system is a joke. No Ubuntu packages that I have seen in Mintupdate have had a better rating than 3, while Mint packages automatically receive rating 1. For what reason would anyone, including you and me, trust new software from a small community like Mint's more than long evolved software from a large community like Ubuntu's?

I also have several problems with compiz (which is an unstable package, I know). I have to blame you because, I at least know that you have laid your hands on it by removing every damn detail setting, and because I did not have these problems on Ubuntu 7.10.

When I drag a window from one workspace to another, it happens often that the window is lost and invisible, somehow between workspaces.
I moved a window to the upper corner of the screen, resulting in infinite wobbling.

When programs hang, the machine spends its resources doing a fade-out effect on the window rather than fixing the problems. One time, when the program was not hanging anymore, the fade effect persisted, making everything slow and black/white.

Newly opened windows are very often placed behind existing windows instead of on top of them, which leads me to think my actions have no result. For an example, this always happens in the menu editor. (possibly not a compiz problem, but certainly a Mint problem)
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Re: Bugs, but no reporting system. Certification.

Postby clem on Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:20 am

This is a joke right? :)

Mint 4.0 has bugs, but there is no bug reporting system for Mint-specific applications.


Every piece of software has bugs. The forum is very efficient and has proven very useful for reporting and fixing bugs. We tried Launchpad and it didn't work for us as well. If you participate in Romeo and Beta releases you can be almost certain your bug reports will be fixed.

I started my computer without any extra programs and checked the system monitor. It said I had used 133 MB of memory (which is a lot also). Mintupdate failed the first try because my wireless connection was not ready. I clicked the icon and chose "reload". No updates are found, but the system monitor shows around 15 MB higher memory usage. I repeat, and each search increases the memory usage comparably without giving me any results. At some point the memory increase/leaking seems to stop.


This has been fixed a long time ago... you can get updates for this in Romeo.

I have made Mintupdate find updates twice, I think. I tried today, and it found none. Then I opened Synaptic, and it found two.


That's a misinterpretation of the feature. You should understand that mintUpdate can only refresh APT if you give it root permissions.

The package certification system is a joke. No Ubuntu packages that I have seen in Mintupdate have had a better rating than 3, while Mint packages automatically receive rating 1. For what reason would anyone, including you and me, trust new software from a small community like Mint's more than long evolved software from a large community like Ubuntu's?


You're completely missing the point on mintUpdate here... it's all about testing. In case you haven't noticed level 1 packages go through Romeo and community testing before you see them in Daryna. Do Ubuntu updates get community tested? Oh yes.. that's right they do.. by everybody. By the way Windows has a larger community and it's been involved with making software for a much longer time, what's your point on this?

I also have several problems with compiz (which is an unstable package, I know). I have to blame you because, I at least know that you have laid your hands on it by removing every damn detail setting, and because I did not have these problems on Ubuntu 7.10.


You're referring to CCSM which was buggy in both Daryna and Gutsy, and for which reason is not included in Daryna or in Gutsy.

When I drag a window from one workspace to another, it happens often that the window is lost and invisible, somehow between workspaces.
I moved a window to the upper corner of the screen, resulting in infinite wobbling. When programs hang, the machine spends its resources doing a fade-out effect on the window rather than fixing the problems. One time, when the program was not hanging anymore, the fade effect persisted, making everything slow and black/white. Newly opened windows are very often placed behind existing windows instead of on top of them, which leads me to think my actions have no result. For an example, this always happens in the menu editor. (possibly not a compiz problem, but certainly a Mint problem)


It looks like an upstream problem to me or maybe you should play with the focus settings in Compiz..

I'm sorry if my answer is a bit aggressive but you're behaving as if this was Ubuntu. We don't work the same way and although I do appreciate feedback and bug reports I'd much prefer people to understand our project and the specificities of our tools before they post bugs on them.

May I suggest you read the user guide: http://linuxmint.com/pub/Daryna_User_Guide-4.1.pdf

Questions & comments are welcome.
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Re: Bugs, but no reporting system. Certification.

Postby ehasl on Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:17 am

clem wrote:This is a joke right? :)

No, and I do not appreciate the question.

Every piece of software has bugs.

Yes, but you kind of claim to be a higher quality distribution than Ubuntu, right?

The forum is very efficient and has proven very useful for reporting and fixing bugs.

OK, but there is no bug category. I was not sure where to post my report.

This has been fixed a long time ago...

I appreciate that you fix such ugly bugs, but why don't I get the fix thrown in my hands?
you can get updates for this in Romeo.

I have never heard about Romeo. It is not easy to find on the main site without already knowing what to search for... Alright, I found it. So Romeo is unstable packages, which ironically in some cases are more stable than the stable ones. I can't find a setting for Romeo in the MintUpdate utility, so I will have to change the sources.list. OK, I will do it, but I am afraid that some of the unstable packages will hurt my system more...

I have made Mintupdate find updates twice, I think. I tried today, and it found none. Then I opened Synaptic, and it found two.

That's a misinterpretation of the feature. You should understand that mintUpdate can only refresh APT if you give it root permissions.

I thought I gave it root permissions when I have to give my root password to use it, which I did.

The package certification system is a joke. No Ubuntu packages that I have seen in Mintupdate have had a better rating than 3, while Mint packages automatically receive rating 1. For what reason would anyone, including you and me, trust new software from a small community like Mint's more than long evolved software from a large community like Ubuntu's?

You're completely missing the point on mintUpdate here... it's all about testing. In case you haven't noticed level 1 packages go through Romeo and community testing before you see them in Daryna.

You should at least certify some non-Mint packages for me to believe that the certification is anything else than a dishonest/self-elevating marketing gimmick.

Do Ubuntu updates get community tested? Oh yes.. that's right they do.. by everybody. By the way Windows has a larger community and it's been involved with making software for a much longer time, what's your point on this?

I wouldn't be too quick to draw that parallel and conclude from it. Microsoft does not include its community in the development/testing/bug-fixing the way Ubuntu does, and the people of the Ubuntu/GNU/Linux community are in general much keener computer users than the Windows community (although Microsoft have a lot of professionals within their organization).

You're referring to CCSM which was buggy in both Daryna and Gutsy, and for which reason is not included in Daryna or in Gutsy.

No, I'm not. I ran Gutsy before. Settings there were called "GL Desktop" and gave several more options than Mint. I may admit that it was buggy too, but at least some options worked. In Mint, it seems the only simple way to disable a buggy feature is turning the overall effects level down to one where the feature is disabled.

It looks like an upstream problem to me or maybe you should play with the focus settings in Compiz..

I am sorry, but what is an upstream problem? Which problem would possibly be solved by playing with the focus settings in Compiz? The "between workspaces" or the "new window behind" problem? And how do I play with the focus settings in Compiz safely without a control panel?

I'm sorry if my answer is a bit aggressive but you're behaving as if this was Ubuntu.

According to /etc/lsb-release it is Ubuntu 7.10... I have yet to find a reason to forgive or even understand your aggressive tone. The closest I have is that my tone may have been aggressive too, and a lot more so in this post than the previous one. Maybe soon we are "even". ;-)

May I suggest you read the user guide: http://linuxmint.com/pub/Daryna_User_Guide-4.1.pdf

404 File not found.
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Re: Bugs, but no reporting system. Certification.

Postby timh on Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:18 pm

Yes, but you kind of claim to be a higher quality distribution than Ubuntu, right?

my opinion it is and i use it since Bea and I tried Ubuntu 6.10 :: 7.04 :: 7.10

OK, but there is no bug category. I was not sure where to post my report.

Oh Boy ! the most categories are waiting for new “bug posts” :lol:

OK, I will do it, but I am afraid that some of the unstable packages will hurt my system more...

8) don't be afraid ! its hurting not so much .

404 File not found.

look here :wink:
ftp://ftp.heanet.ie/pub/linuxmint.com/4 ... ide_v1.pdf

I love GNU/Linux Mint and i found allways help here in the forum and Clem is a very friendly person :!:
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Re: Bugs, but no reporting system. Certification.

Postby clem on Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:12 pm

You don't have to forgive or understand anything and I don't have to convince or educate you on what's already explained elsewhere. I don't like throwing RTFMs at people but you're posting here, trying to point the finger at our way of working when you haven't even read our user guide or taken the time to understand our project.

Yes, but you kind of claim to be a higher quality distribution than Ubuntu, right?


No, actually we don't.

OK, but there is no bug category. I was not sure where to post my report.


If you had read the general announcements on the forums you would have noticed 4 Romeo releases... and by now you would have understood that this is how we get feedback and bug reports from the community.

I appreciate that you fix such ugly bugs, but why don't I get the fix thrown in my hands?


Because we don't throw package updates in the stable repository until they've been through Romeo... If you're familiar with Debian this is similar to what they do with Unstable and Testing.

I have never heard about Romeo. It is not easy to find on the main site without already knowing what to search for... Alright, I found it. So Romeo is unstable packages, which ironically in some cases are more stable than the stable ones. I can't find a setting for Romeo in the MintUpdate utility, so I will have to change the sources.list. OK, I will do it, but I am afraid that some of the unstable packages will hurt my system more...


You should be. I you're not interesting in beta-testing our releases and updates you should stay on the stable branch and wait for these Romeo packages to make their way into Daryna.

You should at least certify some non-Mint packages for me to believe that the certification is anything else than a dishonest/self-elevating marketing gimmick.


If you had taken the time to properly look at mintUpdate you would have seen that Level 1 is BY DEFINITION for packages that are "tested through Romeo" or directly maintained by Mint (which basically means the same since we don't update the main branch directly). Level 2 updates are tested by us but not by the community. Level 3 are tested neither by us nor by the community...

In Mint, it seems the only simple way to disable a buggy feature is turning the overall effects level down to one where the feature is disabled.


Yes, that's true. If something doesn't meet our expectation, if we find it too buggy or if we can't fix it we disable or remove it. This was the case for CCSM. Now, what you need to understand is that we don't necessarily include everything that goes in Ubuntu, we're a different distro. So for instance we did not remove GL Desktop (I'm not even sure what you're referring to.. desktop-effects I guess...??).

According to /etc/lsb-release it is Ubuntu 7.10...


Mint is using an Ubuntu base and identifying itself as Ubuntu through LSB. This is to ensure compatibility with it. As for its own identification system we're working on it for Mint 5 and it will be called mintsystem (Romeo users already use it ). From a technical point of view a Mint system is an Ubuntu system, it's fully compatible.

I have yet to find a reason to forgive or even understand your aggressive tone.


Don't worry about it, I'm not waiting for it to happen and I'm quite pessimistic about the chances that it will.

404 File not found.


We bought a new server a few days ago so files are moving to another subnet. Sorry about that. Here's another link to it: ftp://ftp.heanet.ie/pub/linuxmint.com/4 ... ide_v1.pdf

Maybe soon we are "even".


We are. Arguing takes time and everything I said to you is already better explained in the User Guide and through the forums.

My advice: take the time to discover Mint with an open mind. Only once you know the project and are familiar with how we do things will you be able to point at how to improve them. If you don't want to waste time doing this then maybe Mint isn't for you. I'm not sure why I was aggressive with you, I'm usually quite nice to people, I suppose it's because you obviously have some knowledge of Ubuntu/Linux and assumed this was enough without taking the time to learn about us before suggesting things that don't make much sense.

Good luck,
Clem
PS: I'm closing the thread.
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