Branded firefox

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Branded firefox

Postby Quin on Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:46 am

Its cool that that mint generates income from the branded google (at least thats what I read in another post) because I LOVE mint, Ive used alot of distributions, mint surpasses them all. But I really don't like the branded version of google, its too basic, you don't have half the options you do in the google page, like the search images page, search just your country option, and many other things. I want to support mint, its bugging me alot. Would be great if this can be improved.
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Re: Branded firefox

Postby proxima_centauri on Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:21 am

clem wrote:I think we all agree to say that google.com provides more features than this (let's call it googleMint for simplicity). The three main features that are lacking in googleMint are:

- The ability to change from web results to images result.
- The cached links.
- The ability to access your google account.

Now, why are these features not present in googleMint, for the simple reason that Google doesn't want custom google search engines (that's how it's called) to have these features. It's possible, I could change a simple parameter in the XML and show them.. but it would go against the agreement we have with Google. Will they support these features in Adsense for Search or in custom search engines in the future? They don't want to comment on this.

For the first problem I added a second search engine dedicated to images (you can see 2 google search engines, one for Web and one for Images).

Now, why do we harm the user experience? (It's true, we do a bit by doing this). Because we found a way to finance ourselves and that could even save us selling support. The ideal situation for Linux Mint would be to grow as a company with hired full-time staff working ONLY on the distribution itself, not on parallel lucrative activities such as support. The start page generates about $1,000/month, this search engine could generate between 2 to 40 times more income, making it possible for us to grow into a small size company and start hiring to achieve things we only ever dreamed off.

So you're right, it would be nice to see cached links and to have a link to our google account from the result page but if that's the price to pay to see Mint go from something that is developed in some volunteer's past-time to a full distribution backed by a team of full-time employed developers, it's definitely worth the little annoyance.

Not to mention that the bigger we get the better we can negotiate with Google and eventually push these features back in. For information that same top right corner wasn't using the default Google engine before.. it was using a custom Firefox one. Mozilla just happened to have a deal with Google that we're not in a position to get.

If you really want to default back to the default google engine there are many ways to do that but it would be a pity since this is the best way you can financially contribute to Mint. More than the donations, more than the ads on the website, more than the sponsors, more than the sales, more than anything this is the biggest source of income for the distribution and by simply using your desktop, and OK by ignoring the fact that the results page isn't as full-featured as the one on google.com, you're participating in making Mint grow.

Mint is currently registering itself as a business in the Republic of Ireland and I'll soon be able to show you a detailed breakdown of our financial situation. We are harming the user experience, it is motivated by financial reasons but do see the big picture, this is extremely positive for the distribution and it's going to be a major key for success which will let us get to the next level and start having people working full-time on Mint.

Clem

In short, until Google changes the agreement that Clem has to follow, it can not be changed.
Cheers.
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Re: Branded firefox

Postby antiquexray on Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:37 pm

Quin wrote:Its cool that that mint generates income from the branded google...But I really don't like the branded version of google, its too basic...

First, and formost, I agree with what you say. As far as Google, I use the branded version at first, but if that does not fit my needs I have a quick link to the regular Google search. It isn't much, but it's just another way I can help support Mint. After all, it's just a few quick key strokes and a cut-and-paste...I'm actually getting pretty good at it :)
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Re: Branded firefox

Postby madjr on Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:03 pm

proxima_centauri wrote:
clem wrote:I think we all agree to say that google.com provides more features than this (let's call it googleMint for simplicity). The three main features that are lacking in googleMint are:

- The ability to change from web results to images result.
- The cached links.
- The ability to access your google account.

Now, why are these features not present in googleMint, for the simple reason that Google doesn't want custom google search engines (that's how it's called) to have these features. It's possible, I could change a simple parameter in the XML and show them.. but it would go against the agreement we have with Google. Will they support these features in Adsense for Search or in custom search engines in the future? They don't want to comment on this.

For the first problem I added a second search engine dedicated to images (you can see 2 google search engines, one for Web and one for Images).

Now, why do we harm the user experience? (It's true, we do a bit by doing this). Because we found a way to finance ourselves and that could even save us selling support. The ideal situation for Linux Mint would be to grow as a company with hired full-time staff working ONLY on the distribution itself, not on parallel lucrative activities such as support. The start page generates about $1,000/month, this search engine could generate between 2 to 40 times more income, making it possible for us to grow into a small size company and start hiring to achieve things we only ever dreamed off.

So you're right, it would be nice to see cached links and to have a link to our google account from the result page but if that's the price to pay to see Mint go from something that is developed in some volunteer's past-time to a full distribution backed by a team of full-time employed developers, it's definitely worth the little annoyance.

Not to mention that the bigger we get the better we can negotiate with Google and eventually push these features back in. For information that same top right corner wasn't using the default Google engine before.. it was using a custom Firefox one. Mozilla just happened to have a deal with Google that we're not in a position to get.

If you really want to default back to the default google engine there are many ways to do that but it would be a pity since this is the best way you can financially contribute to Mint. More than the donations, more than the ads on the website, more than the sponsors, more than the sales, more than anything this is the biggest source of income for the distribution and by simply using your desktop, and OK by ignoring the fact that the results page isn't as full-featured as the one on google.com, you're participating in making Mint grow.

Mint is currently registering itself as a business in the Republic of Ireland and I'll soon be able to show you a detailed breakdown of our financial situation. We are harming the user experience, it is motivated by financial reasons but do see the big picture, this is extremely positive for the distribution and it's going to be a major key for success which will let us get to the next level and start having people working full-time on Mint.

Clem

In short, until Google changes the agreement that Clem has to follow, it can not be changed.
Cheers.


i for 1 will support mint by making a few searches a day with their googlemint (yes, consciously), but i would also like to see the normal google engine included (at the bottom of the list maybe ?). That way it saves me some trouble when i really need to use all features! :idea:

it's really a bad idea to force this into the user, as they will get frustrated, uninstall the googlemint search engine or make normal google.com their startpage. People need options. If you impose stuff into them you will lose them, specially in the linux world (i went back to normal Ubuntu for a month instead of mint, till i read the real motives of this, as i thought mint only wanted to annoy it's users... :cry: ). So having both googlemint and normal google search engines is a much better idea.

give people options, don't impose and frustrate them. :oops:

"if you don't care for the person by imposing your will, don't expect that person to care in anyway about you."
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Re: Branded firefox

Postby ed@Mint on Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:19 pm

Men, this has been widely discussed here
I still can't understand why you are so much bothered by that.
Since i use Mint, i use mint google version for all my searches, and i get what i'm looking for 95% of the time :roll:
If i really want french or belgian results only, then i'll use google.be but, men,
if you put a link in your personnal bar it is 1 click away or, if (like me) you don't like the personal bar,
1 click in the adress bar, type 'g', hit the 'down' key and enter... Is that really a huge effort ?

Be proud to support Mint, even if that cost you 2 seconds......
ed

edit:
even easier : click the 'new tab' button, or hit <ctrl>+<t>, you get the linux mint startpage http://www.linuxmint.com/start/, i really don't see what you're complaining about....
And by the way, what is Mint imposing you ? You really don't like google mint ? change it, then. Nothing prevents you from doing it...
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Re: Branded firefox

Postby madjr on Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:19 am

ed@Mint wrote:Men, this has been widely discussed here
I still can't understand why you are so much bothered by that.
Since i use Mint, i use mint google version for all my searches, and i get what i'm looking for 95% of the time :roll:
If i really want french or belgian results only, then i'll use google.be but, men,
if you put a link in your personnal bar it is 1 click away or, if (like me) you don't like the personal bar,
1 click in the adress bar, type 'g', hit the 'down' key and enter... Is that really a huge effort ?

Be proud to support Mint, even if that cost you 2 seconds......
ed

edit:
even easier : click the 'new tab' button, or hit <ctrl>+<t>, you get the linux mint startpage http://www.linuxmint.com/start/, i really don't see what you're complaining about....
And by the way, what is Mint imposing you ? You really don't like google mint ? change it, then. Nothing prevents you from doing it...



one thing is the startpage and another the search bar. Like i said they should also include the original google bar at the end of the list (people don't read here?)

and like i posted earlier:

i for 1 will support mint by making a few searches a day with their googlemint (yes, consciously), but i would also like to see the normal google engine included (at the bottom of the list maybe ?). That way it saves me some trouble when i really need to use all features! :idea:

it's really a bad idea to force this into the user, as they will get frustrated, uninstall the googlemint search engine or make normal google.com their startpage. People need options. If you impose stuff into them you will lose them, specially in the linux world (i went back to normal Ubuntu for a month instead of mint, till i read the real motives of this, as i thought mint only wanted to annoy it's users... :cry: ). So having both googlemint and normal google search engines is a much better idea.

give people options, don't impose and frustrate them. :oops:

"if you don't care for the person by imposing your will, don't expect that person to care in anyway about you."
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Re: Branded firefox

Postby Dennis99 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:41 am

Goto: http://mycroft.mozdev.org/quick/google.html and you can add any flavour of Google (and many other plugins) to the search bar to use as and when you need them.
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Re: Branded firefox

Postby ed@Mint on Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:29 am

madjr wrote:i went back to normal Ubuntu for a month instead of mint, till i read the real motives of this


One really have to be bold minded to quit a distribution because of such a tiny detail :roll:
Especially when you can recover your beloved search bar within 2 minutes time...

What's next ?
Quit using Mint if you don't like Elyssa's wallpaper ?
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Re: Branded firefox

Postby Lantesh on Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:00 pm

ed@Mint wrote:
madjr wrote:i went back to normal Ubuntu for a month instead of mint, till i read the real motives of this


One really have to be bold minded to quit a distribution because of such a tiny detail :roll:
Especially when you can recover your beloved search bar within 2 minutes time...

What's next ?
Quit using Mint if you don't like Elyssa's wallpaper ?


Ed the important thing here is madjr came back when he realized the situation. Knowing how important it is now I too will make sure to do all my searches with the MintGoogle version.
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Re: Branded firefox

Postby ed@Mint on Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:58 pm

Lantesh wrote:the important thing here is madjr came back when he realized the situation

Yeah, i agree.
I might have been a bit offensive on this one... i should watch that.
But i just thought this was a lot of mess for not so much.

cya
peace
ed
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Re: Branded firefox

Postby madjr on Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:20 pm

ed@Mint wrote:
Lantesh wrote:the important thing here is madjr came back when he realized the situation

Yeah, i agree.
I might have been a bit offensive on this one... i should watch that.
But i just thought this was a lot of mess for not so much.

cya
peace
ed


Ed,

i promote mint everywhere and am linux savvy person.

i also have ubuntu hardy beta installed (for testing purposes), but am looking forward to mint 5

i rarely give ubuntu CDs to people, i give them mint CDs.

The thing here is i was so piss off by the search bar thing. I downloaded a few updates and BAM, my search bar was gone and replaced (exactly when unwanted Adware/malware installs in your pc).

No notification or anything.... (i read the update info and there was non)

It's like when adware/spyware gets installed in your PC. Thats why i left windows and came to linux. Thats why adware/spyware removers are so popular.

never do something like this without warning you first or giving you the option to use your old search bar (your old settings)

i do support mint and i do use their search bar as much as i can NOW. But thats because i love and support linux, specially Ubuntu and the linuxmint proyect.

People use Google primarily because of those features that are missing in googlemint, if not i would use a simple search engine like yahoo search, etc. I sacrifice myself to work using googlemint, but i do it consciously now. I need the google features for my work, not because i play around.

another person would not tolerate this annoying thing and either leave mint right away or go back to windows. I seen some leave because of even smaller things. Yea, thats how serious can be when you affect the user work experience.

am just giving here good solid advice to Clem. In the Linux world you can't just impose things to the user. You need to offer them conscious options. Let them choose and you will be rewarded.

the only thing he needs to do is offer the normal one at the bottom of the list nothing else, that way a person can switch back and forward and the experience would be so less annoying. Thats so hard to do?

you need to adapt to the user, not the user adapting to whatever you want...
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Re: Branded firefox

Postby ed@Mint on Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:55 pm

madjr wrote:...piss off by the search bar thing...like adware/spyware...I sacrifice myself...another person would either leave mint right away or go back to windows...

ed@Mint wrote:a lot of mess for not so much

:|

2 clicks and you got your normal google whenever you want... (and you're not the only one working under Linux Mint. :wink: )

Anyway, glad you like Mint, i do too.
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