Hi,
I am now very close to switching my Windows machine off and replacing it with my new machine with Mint 6. I will now admit that I actually work in the world of IT, my area of expertise being commercial databases, Oracle and DB2. One thing over the last few years that I have noticed is the slow take-up of Linux. Why do people still continue to use Windows?
You have to know your enemy and I think few people would disagree that Windows is strong in 3 main areas:-
1. Ease of plug and play for all hardware.
2. Professional looking screens with True-Type fully-scaleable fonts.
3. Microsoft Office.
1. Hardware.
-----------------
Most hardware manufacturers stubbornly refuse to provide special drivers for Linux. I suggested in my recent post on the Epson 3490 driver which I got working with the windows driver - why not use windows drivers for all scanners. I believe this idea may now be taken up in a future releases. But why not do this for all hardware, then plug and play will be at least as good on Linux Mint as in Windows.
2. Fonts
----------
As I have said in the forums, many Linux screens look clunky because of the lack of quality True-Type scaleable fonts. I have found that Microsoft Verdana works really well and looks very professional. So how much would it cost to licence verdana to be permanently bundled with Linux Mint, perhaps as the default?
3. Microsoft Office
-----------------------
The discussion I have most frequently with colleagues about moving to Linux is about how to get Microsoft Office working on Linux. It is unfortunate that there is no non-proprietory portable document format in the world and that Microsoft Office Word is the best that there is! After all, who wants their CV to be unreadable by a potential employer (especially now!) because Open Office saved it incorrectly into Word format, or a potential employer is running a buggy version of Microsoft Office and can't read it. So the "real-thing" is an essential to most people. I have got Office 2003 working really well with Codeweavers using the shell installation script. this includes Visio professional as I am a database designer. Why not do a deal with Codeweavers and bundle their product, such that installing Office is only a couple of mouse-clicks away.
Conclusion
------------
So I accept that (1) will cost development time and that (2) and (3) may cost money for the user. But my suggestion is that you could, by adopting the 3 suggestions above, produce a paid/commercial version that would maybe cost 10 or 20 Euros, and would be a more credible alternative to Windows than the current version, thus encouraging a greater adoption of Linux (Mint) by more people. This would get a more regular income for Linux Mint and would probably massively increase the number of downloads - hopefully to more than Ubuntu or SUSE. Even better if the above could be free !
What does anyone think?
Beat Microsoft Windows at its own game!
Forum rules
Do not post support questions here. Before you post read: Where to post ideas & feature requests
Do not post support questions here. Before you post read: Where to post ideas & feature requests
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Bobo-the-Cat
- Level 3
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:03 pm
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rivenought
Re: Beat Microsoft Windows at its own game!
Bobo,
Well, you asked what people thought, so here goes. I really do not want you to get offended, but are you wanting to learn and use Linux, or do you want a free version of Windows? It seems that what you are suggesting as "improvements" are dragging all sorts of Microsoft baggage into Linux. I think you would really enjoy your Linux experience much more if you would do your best to free yourself of those entanglements and bask in the freedom of open-source applications.
1. Hardware - Yeah, it would be nice for the manufacturers to provide LINUX drivers for their products. Until then, I spend my money with the manufacturers who support Linux. When I go shopping for new hardware, I have already checked to see if Linux provides drivers. That helps me make a wiser purchase.
2. Fonts - Oh no! Those Windows fonts look hideous. On the few occasions I have had to provide emergency tech support to someone whose machine is infected with Windows, I always comment on the terrible fonts. There is no way I would ever want to add or use those on any machine I administer. Mint uses excellent fonts as the default. DejaVu and the Liberation fonts are great. Try those instead of the Microsoft ones.
3. Microsoft Office - I have never used Microsoft Office, but I have heard some people do. Not sure why they would fork over all that money, though. Really, they should save that money and purchase some Linux-compatible hardware. They would probably be much happier. Well, as happy as anyone can be who is shackled to the proprietary world Microsoft is trying to build. I agree that there should be some sort of standard, an open-source standard, that everyone in the world could use. OpenOffice fits nicely in that category.
In conclusion - With all the freedom and choices in the Linux world, why do people still use Windows?
Bobo, since you are a web designer, you have a unique opportunity to ensure that all of your code will adhere to universal standards, not just Microsoft standards. You have the power to make the web more open to everyone, irregardless as to what operating system or browser is being used. Instead of trying to get Linux to behave more like Microsoft products, why not do your best to get Microsoft to behave and play nicely with everyone else?
Well, you asked what people thought, so here goes. I really do not want you to get offended, but are you wanting to learn and use Linux, or do you want a free version of Windows? It seems that what you are suggesting as "improvements" are dragging all sorts of Microsoft baggage into Linux. I think you would really enjoy your Linux experience much more if you would do your best to free yourself of those entanglements and bask in the freedom of open-source applications.
1. Hardware - Yeah, it would be nice for the manufacturers to provide LINUX drivers for their products. Until then, I spend my money with the manufacturers who support Linux. When I go shopping for new hardware, I have already checked to see if Linux provides drivers. That helps me make a wiser purchase.
2. Fonts - Oh no! Those Windows fonts look hideous. On the few occasions I have had to provide emergency tech support to someone whose machine is infected with Windows, I always comment on the terrible fonts. There is no way I would ever want to add or use those on any machine I administer. Mint uses excellent fonts as the default. DejaVu and the Liberation fonts are great. Try those instead of the Microsoft ones.
3. Microsoft Office - I have never used Microsoft Office, but I have heard some people do. Not sure why they would fork over all that money, though. Really, they should save that money and purchase some Linux-compatible hardware. They would probably be much happier. Well, as happy as anyone can be who is shackled to the proprietary world Microsoft is trying to build. I agree that there should be some sort of standard, an open-source standard, that everyone in the world could use. OpenOffice fits nicely in that category.
In conclusion - With all the freedom and choices in the Linux world, why do people still use Windows?
Bobo, since you are a web designer, you have a unique opportunity to ensure that all of your code will adhere to universal standards, not just Microsoft standards. You have the power to make the web more open to everyone, irregardless as to what operating system or browser is being used. Instead of trying to get Linux to behave more like Microsoft products, why not do your best to get Microsoft to behave and play nicely with everyone else?
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FedoraRefugee
Re: Beat Microsoft Windows at its own game!
Hmmm...I think that I agree with much of what you say but totally disagree at where this bus is going! (directed at the OP, another post was made while I was constructing this one.)
First of all I disagree with your main premise of beating MS and knowing your enemy. Yeah, this is Mint, which is spun off of Ubuntu, which has Microsoft listed as its number one bug...I think this is highly misguided and I do not consider MS my enemy nor do I really care who does, or does not, use Linux. Look, you, we, will never beat MS. Why would you want to? So all the exploits fall on Linux? Just to see the giant unseated? To save the world from the evil clutches of the monkeyboy beast from Redmond? Give me a break...If anyone is interested Linux is there for the taking. There is not much keeping it from acceptance by most folks. But you cannot forcefeed people. I am speaking as a Christian here, it is my duty to be a witness and to also tell people about Jesus Christ. Cool. I do just that. Most simply do not want to hear though. Why should I take that personal? It is their problem, not mine! Linux is the same way. There is nothing wrong with evangelizing it, but check your attitude at the door. It will prove to be the biggest turnoff!
1. hardware. I dont see this as such a major problem. Okay, scanners suck. But printers are almost all workable, webcams are mostly there, I have yet to find a usb gaming device that wont work...The thing is, you run into possible patent issues when trying to find ways to use Windows drivers. To an extent Mint is immune to this as Clem is stationed in Ireland. But you can only push your luck so far. Americans make up a huge percentage of the user base. When push comes to shove I agree with a worldview that Clem should not make everyone else suffer because of our dumb laws, but this would definitely effect things.
2. Same issue as above. Just install msstcorefonts. I think keeping Linux free and open is much more important than the font we use. I do not want to be forced to use any MS proprietary stuff, though installing this package is one of the first things I do.
3. This is the reason I am forced to use Vista for school. Office also runs well in Wine from what I understand. The problem is each copy is licensed and as I am already running it in Vista (which I am using to type this post) I will not try to install it in Linux also. I agree that OO.o CANNOT replace Office for a professional or a student. It really does not even come close. You are stuck with Office. You have to decide whether to run it in codeweavers or Wine, or to run Windows virtually inside of Linux or to simply run Windows in tandem with Linux as I do. Maybe one day the world will adopt open formats and there will be a quality office suite for Linux, even if it is proprietary and costs money. But for now...
Though I disagree with your destination I am not saying you are wrong, nor am I saying that many others will not fully agree with you. I suggest you create a distro that solves the issues you point out. You could charge for licensing and support. I am surprised the licensing issue has not caught on yet, I have had this idea for a few years now myself. Why not create a distro for a modest price that has everything right out of the box. I think I read somewhere that Clem actually did talk to the people that control mp3 or a similar codec and the cost to license was ridiculous. I dont know. But as I work under a different philosophy I feel that if a person wants to use Linux bad enough they will make it work. I dont see fonts or a few random bits of hardware holding anyone back.
First of all I disagree with your main premise of beating MS and knowing your enemy. Yeah, this is Mint, which is spun off of Ubuntu, which has Microsoft listed as its number one bug...I think this is highly misguided and I do not consider MS my enemy nor do I really care who does, or does not, use Linux. Look, you, we, will never beat MS. Why would you want to? So all the exploits fall on Linux? Just to see the giant unseated? To save the world from the evil clutches of the monkeyboy beast from Redmond? Give me a break...If anyone is interested Linux is there for the taking. There is not much keeping it from acceptance by most folks. But you cannot forcefeed people. I am speaking as a Christian here, it is my duty to be a witness and to also tell people about Jesus Christ. Cool. I do just that. Most simply do not want to hear though. Why should I take that personal? It is their problem, not mine! Linux is the same way. There is nothing wrong with evangelizing it, but check your attitude at the door. It will prove to be the biggest turnoff!
1. hardware. I dont see this as such a major problem. Okay, scanners suck. But printers are almost all workable, webcams are mostly there, I have yet to find a usb gaming device that wont work...The thing is, you run into possible patent issues when trying to find ways to use Windows drivers. To an extent Mint is immune to this as Clem is stationed in Ireland. But you can only push your luck so far. Americans make up a huge percentage of the user base. When push comes to shove I agree with a worldview that Clem should not make everyone else suffer because of our dumb laws, but this would definitely effect things.
2. Same issue as above. Just install msstcorefonts. I think keeping Linux free and open is much more important than the font we use. I do not want to be forced to use any MS proprietary stuff, though installing this package is one of the first things I do.
3. This is the reason I am forced to use Vista for school. Office also runs well in Wine from what I understand. The problem is each copy is licensed and as I am already running it in Vista (which I am using to type this post) I will not try to install it in Linux also. I agree that OO.o CANNOT replace Office for a professional or a student. It really does not even come close. You are stuck with Office. You have to decide whether to run it in codeweavers or Wine, or to run Windows virtually inside of Linux or to simply run Windows in tandem with Linux as I do. Maybe one day the world will adopt open formats and there will be a quality office suite for Linux, even if it is proprietary and costs money. But for now...
Though I disagree with your destination I am not saying you are wrong, nor am I saying that many others will not fully agree with you. I suggest you create a distro that solves the issues you point out. You could charge for licensing and support. I am surprised the licensing issue has not caught on yet, I have had this idea for a few years now myself. Why not create a distro for a modest price that has everything right out of the box. I think I read somewhere that Clem actually did talk to the people that control mp3 or a similar codec and the cost to license was ridiculous. I dont know. But as I work under a different philosophy I feel that if a person wants to use Linux bad enough they will make it work. I dont see fonts or a few random bits of hardware holding anyone back.
Re: Beat Microsoft Windows at its own game!
Bobo,Bobo-the-Cat wrote:Hi,
I am now very close to switching my Windows machine off and replacing it with my new machine with Mint 6. I will now admit that I actually work in the world of IT, my area of expertise being commercial databases, Oracle and DB2. One thing over the last few years that I have noticed is the slow take-up of Linux. Why do people still continue to use Windows?
You have to know your enemy and I think few people would disagree that Windows is strong in 3 main areas:-
1. Ease of plug and play for all hardware.
2. Professional looking screens with True-Type fully-scaleable fonts.
3. Microsoft Office.
1. Hardware.
-----------------
Most hardware manufacturers stubbornly refuse to provide special drivers for Linux. I suggested in my recent post on the Epson 3490 driver which I got working with the windows driver - why not use windows drivers for all scanners. I believe this idea may now be taken up in a future releases. But why not do this for all hardware, then plug and play will be at least as good on Linux Mint as in Windows.
2. Fonts
----------
As I have said in the forums, many Linux screens look clunky because of the lack of quality True-Type scaleable fonts. I have found that Microsoft Verdana works really well and looks very professional. So how much would it cost to licence verdana to be permanently bundled with Linux Mint, perhaps as the default?
3. Microsoft Office
-----------------------
The discussion I have most frequently with colleagues about moving to Linux is about how to get Microsoft Office working on Linux. It is unfortunate that there is no non-proprietory portable document format in the world and that Microsoft Office Word is the best that there is! After all, who wants their CV to be unreadable by a potential employer (especially now!) because Open Office saved it incorrectly into Word format, or a potential employer is running a buggy version of Microsoft Office and can't read it. So the "real-thing" is an essential to most people. I have got Office 2003 working really well with Codeweavers using the shell installation script. this includes Visio professional as I am a database designer. Why not do a deal with Codeweavers and bundle their product, such that installing Office is only a couple of mouse-clicks away.
Conclusion
------------
So I accept that (1) will cost development time and that (2) and (3) may cost money for the user. But my suggestion is that you could, by adopting the 3 suggestions above, produce a paid/commercial version that would maybe cost 10 or 20 Euros, and would be a more credible alternative to Windows than the current version, thus encouraging a greater adoption of Linux (Mint) by more people. This would get a more regular income for Linux Mint and would probably massively increase the number of downloads - hopefully to more than Ubuntu or SUSE. Even better if the above could be free !
What does anyone think?
There are many of us out there doing the kind of things you mention. I would like to add a few pointers. The company I work has a priority using Linux where ever possible and has been for many years. We use Mandriva, Linux Mint and Ubuntu, also test SuSe and others everynow and then. Yet, after all these years, there are things that remain a challenge.
1.) hardware is not much of a problem anymore. We only by printers etc. will work under Linux. If we mistakenly by something that does not work we'll send it back and complain about it.
2.) We consider Open Office and Star Office good enough. We are careful sending documents to Windows users and always try to pick the most common version of the MS Office conversion. For internal documents, we use OpenOffice formats. We seem to have less trouble than our friends with other companies. Their IT departments seem to struggling with the memory leak problems that occur when XP is upgrade to Service Pack 3 and the MS Office becomes buggy.
3.) Mandriva does something better than other linuxes about the fonts. All our Mandriva boxes have even smoother fonts than Vista.
4.) Accounting is a problem. We keep two accounting programs, and have to support Windows for them. Quickbooks used to be available in Canada for Mac, and we were planning to setup a FreeBSD box and try to run the Mac Quickbooks in it. Then the Canadian Quickbooks for Mac was discontinued. There are some projects for a Linux accounting program, a couple of them look promising.
One thing we have learn in the Linux community. Let's not copy or follow Windows. Otherwise we are always playing catchup. After all, Microsoft started with DOS (which was derived from Unix and called baby unix) and then copied GUI from Mac and called it Windows.
Linux is a closer relative of Unix that put the man in the moon already in the sixties, so there is no need to copy Windows.
We also have to stop apologizing for using Linux. I was recently buying wireless radio equipment for our company to expand our wireless network. The salesman explained that all their equipment are controlled by a central "easy-to-use" Windows program. I told him we are not using Windows for our network administration and all the other equipment can be operated with web browser or telnet. He had the nerve to suggest that he knew where to get XP OEM CD's cheaply and we should convert our boxes to Windows.
He looked kind of stunned when I said I'm not buying their product and the meeting is over.
This is what we have start doing as Linux users. If you don't have equipment, software whatever for my Linux systems, then you will not get my money. Complain loudly whenever something does not work under Linux. The recent success and spread of Ubuntu has already made a difference. A few years ago, they didn't know what you were talking about in computer stores when you asked if the product would work with Linux.
Also, show people what Linux can do. I keep a large monitor on my desk facing whoever I am having a meeting with. Before the meeting I load all documents and graphics needed in the six workplaces, then switch the workspaces with Compiz cube.
"What was that, how did you do that?" is what they say afterwards. "Linux? really?"
Thanks
Hannu
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Fred
Re: Beat Microsoft Windows at its own game!
Bobo-the-Cat,
I am reminded of an old saying. "Never play another man's game."
Fred
I am reminded of an old saying. "Never play another man's game."
Fred
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garrowolf
Re: Beat Microsoft Windows at its own game!
A bad economy is good for linux, it's free and it's a good time to get people to try something different.
Personally I use a dual boot on my system. I have XP on one partition and Mint on the other. The only thing I really use XP for is watching some flash and shockwave stuff on Firefox and a few games that are buggy on Linux. I don't see the benefit in moving towards Vista for anybody. I can add all the flashy vista stuff to XP with some files.
I use Open Office on everything I do. I have it on Portable Apps on my thumb drive so that I can access it anywhere. I use it partially because it has GREATER compatibility then MSOffice even with some of their older stuff. I think that the country needs to get off the Microsoft bandwagon because the economy is so bad. We need to save money all over the place but we are shelling out thousands for Microsoft Offices that we don't need. We could switch to Open Office and the government and schools could save alot. It is an equal product for free. It is not an exact copy so there is some learning to do but there is more of a switch going from Office 2003 to 2007 then there is going from 2003 to Open Office. We need it because I feel that it is a waste of my tax dollars.
Personally I use a dual boot on my system. I have XP on one partition and Mint on the other. The only thing I really use XP for is watching some flash and shockwave stuff on Firefox and a few games that are buggy on Linux. I don't see the benefit in moving towards Vista for anybody. I can add all the flashy vista stuff to XP with some files.
I use Open Office on everything I do. I have it on Portable Apps on my thumb drive so that I can access it anywhere. I use it partially because it has GREATER compatibility then MSOffice even with some of their older stuff. I think that the country needs to get off the Microsoft bandwagon because the economy is so bad. We need to save money all over the place but we are shelling out thousands for Microsoft Offices that we don't need. We could switch to Open Office and the government and schools could save alot. It is an equal product for free. It is not an exact copy so there is some learning to do but there is more of a switch going from Office 2003 to 2007 then there is going from 2003 to Open Office. We need it because I feel that it is a waste of my tax dollars.
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Rob Loach
- Level 1
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:53 pm
- Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
It's all about branding
It's all about the branding. People don't really care what it is, as long as it's something they understand and they can use. Proof of this was given in the Is it Windows 7 or KDE 4 video by the ZDNet guys. They understand "Windows", so they accept that, no matter what it really is. In this case, they accepted "Windows", when it really was KDE 4.