Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

[KBD47]

zerozero, Thanks! If the fallback mode is usable to gnome 2 fans then things may not be as bleak as they first appeared. I really hope that gnome 3 can be made usable. Will give it a shot when Ubuntu 11.10 is released. Meanwhile I have added Xubuntu to my computer so I will have a usable desktop in any event.
KBD47

[HardyH]

As for a lot of settings, yes, one has to rely on gnome-tweak-tool for the time being - but it does a good job at managing themes, fonts, desktop, and extensions. GNOME3 is not for the users who like to customize and tweak every available setting - that's for sure - I think they're trying to distance themselves from this in favour of stability and reliability.

Well, let's just say: Gnome 3 is not for users...
At least that's what the Gnome devs say:
http://www.christoph-wickert.de/blog/2011/06/25/gnome-developer-quote-of-the-day/
That attitude drove me away from Gnome 3....
H.

[craig10x]

I hear you zerozero...well, when you can, if you can get it going with mint menu, and then try moving the panel down to the bottom (like traditional mint...lol) i would really love to see some screenshots of it

[HardyH]

Just read this:

Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL), has been joined by rival OpenSUSE, which is jumping to GNOME 3 in its 12.1 beta (see farther below).
Both projects have adopted the latest GNOME 3.2 release, which is said to have squashed many of the bugs of the original, while fixing a few of the most unpopular changes. Yet, GNOME has not backtracked much from its radical UI makeover.

This is important because both Fedora 16 and OpenSUSE 12.1 will block users from booting into GNOME 2.x except for a simplified fallback mode for low-end systems.
http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News ... -121-beta/

I'm just wondering how 'simplified' that fallback will be. Obviously they are pushing for acceptance of the full Gnome 3 desktop. I think in the end I will likely end up with Torvalds using Xfce. I still say Xfce for Main Mint. I just wonder if a crippled or severely hacked Gnome 3 to look like classic gnome can survive for long.
KBD47

Well, GTK+3 will sooner or later have massive influence on XFCE too,so you'll end up with a GTK+3 based XFCE with the same idiotic confuguration and usability problems like in Gnome 3 Shell and Fallback....
Seems KDE is the way to goto keep a useable dekstop with some shinyness, althought until half a year ago I said: I will never use KDE.
H.

[craig10x]

HardyH...you might want to read this comment which was among the responses on the page where that article is that you linked us to...
I guess i am more optimistic then either you or linuxviolin, and suspect that for those of us who prefer a conventional looking desktop, we will still be able to have that with gnome3 both now and in the "long run"....and that going to kde is not going to have to be a "desperate option" we will all have to consider...
Here is the comment:

If any of you have read the comments about GNOME3 on their website, you would know that all these functions are accessible, and will be accessible by default in future revisions. There is already a sponsored “tweaks” program–many of the things you gripe about here are easily solved by installing that package. As they say on their website, their first concern was building the fundamentals–which they’ve done–and now they are working on extending it. The extension set up allows anyone to easily create new features for anyone to use. Just because there hasn’t been much time to build extensions doesn’t mean that GNOME is a dictatorship.

[proxima_centauri]

GTK+3 will sooner or later have massive influence on XFCE too,so you'll end up with a GTK+3 based XFCE with the same idiotic confuguration and usability problems like in Gnome 3 Shell and Fallback....

I think that if you knew what GTK+3 was, you would understand why this statement does not make sense.

GTK is the widget toolkit used by GNOME and XFCE; and many applications. It's responsible for the buttons, scrollbars, and other GUI elements in any GTK app. The only thing GTK+3 means for XFCE is that they will need to update code for XFCE apps, otherwise there may be some inconsistent theming between gtk2 and gtk3 apps. You see this with GNOME apps too like System Monitor and GNOME terminal - they moved to gtk+3 without changing the application.

In no way does XFCE have to be completely rewritten and designed because GTK+3 is being introduced.

[HardyH]

HardyH...you might want to read this comment which was among the responses on the page where that article is that you linked us to...
I guess i am more optimistic then either you or linuxviolin, and suspect that for those of us who prefer a conventional looking desktop, we will still be able to have that with gnome3 both now and in the "long run"....and that going to kde is not going to have to be a "desperate option" we will all have to consider...
Here is the comment:

If any of you have read the comments about GNOME3 on their website, you would know that all these functions are accessible, and will be accessible by default in future revisions. There is already a sponsored “tweaks” program–many of the things you gripe about here are easily solved by installing that package. As they say on their website, their first concern was building the fundamentals–which they’ve done–and now they are working on extending it. The extension set up allows anyone to easily create new features for anyone to use. Just because there hasn’t been much time to build extensions doesn’t mean that GNOME is a dictatorship.

So you find it acceptable to install extentions and tweak tools and editing some kind of registry to perform things that could be done with a simple right click in Gnome 2? You must be joking.....
H.

[proxima_centauri]

So you find it acceptable to install extentions and tweak tools and editing some kind of registry to perform things that could be done with a simple right click in Gnome 2?

You bet.

I install gnome-shell-user-extensions from my package manager and use gnome-tweak-tool to manage desktop, font, shell, shell extensions, theme and window settings.

To add something constructive to the topic, Clem has hinted that Linux Mint 12 will feature a GNOME2 and GNOME3 version.

[zerozero]

So you find it acceptable to install extentions and tweak tools and editing some kind of registry to perform things that could be done with a simple right click in Gnome 2? You must be joking.....
H.

Hardy, first this is not windows to edit "some kind of registry", and second what you are comparing is apples with oranges: a modded and tweaked gnome2.x with this gnome3, where you have to rely on these tools to certain tasks; what you forget, or want to forget, is that in your beloved gnome2 most of the user-friendliness comes from hacks and applets that were not part of gnome itself

[craig10x]

Linux doesn't have a registry like windows....are you a newbie HardyH?

And zerozero is quite correct in his last comment...you were probably not aware of that either...
proxima_centauri...that is a very interesting "hint" from Clem....now you have me wondering just what that means...I wonder if that means gnome 2 version for standard mint desktop and gnome 3 version with shell?

Actually, i thought Clem would go with just one edition with gnome 3, but with the options to have it run either shell OR fallback mode configured with traditional mint desktop...That is how i would have gone if i were a developer... unless he feels it would be too difficult to do it that way...

[proxima_centauri]

I think the "registry" HardyH refers to editing is gconf-editor and dconf-editor. But you don't really need to use those tools much - it is sometimes useful, but I've used it more in GNOME2 than GNOME3.

[zerozero]

To add something constructive to the topic, Clem has hinted that Linux Mint 12 will feature a GNOME2 and GNOME3 version.

now this is big news

[KBD47]

To add something constructive to the topic, Clem has hinted that Linux Mint 12 will feature a GNOME2 and GNOME3 version.

now this is big news

I agree. And probably a good idea to give gnome 3 time to mature. I read somewhere that gnome 3.2 is it for awhile, so if no major changes/improvements are due in the near future, might be good to keep gnome 2 alive for another release cycle or two.
BTW anyone have any idea when Main Mint 12 is going to come out?
KBD47

[tdockery97]

BTW anyone have any idea when Main Mint 12 is going to come out?
KBD47

It's normally around mid to late November.

[KBD47]

BTW anyone have any idea when Main Mint 12 is going to come out?
KBD47

It's normally around mid to late November.

Thanks!

[HardyH]

To add something constructive to the topic, Clem has hinted that Linux Mint 12 will feature a GNOME2 and GNOME3 version.

Well, kind of good news, any link to that statement?

H.

[proxima_centauri]

Nope, just through informal discussion with Clem on the Linux Mint IRC Channels.

<clem> the future is Gnome 3, we need to get started with it and build a destkop as good as we did with Gnome 2... but until we're 100% happy with it I'd like to continue to support Gnome 2.
<clem> the plan for Mint 12 (it might still change) is to provide both Gnome 2 and Gnome 3 as separate editions.

[AlbertP]

I think that Clem first wants to look how well Mint 12 with Gnome 3 works, before putting Gnome 2 in the trash.

[craig10x]

That makes sense AlbertP....i just hope the gnome3 version will have the traditional linux mint desktop either as default (preferred) or at least... optional over "shell"...
But i can understand why he would want to produce two versions until he is sure gnome 3 is doing for him what he wants it to do

[xenopeek]

From the Monthly Stats September 2011 blogpost (emphasis is mine):

Linux Mint 12 “Lisa” will be released in November this year with continued support for Gnome 2 but also with the introduction of Gnome 3. The radical changes introduced by the Gnome project split the community. At the time of releasing Linux Mint 11 we decided it was too early to adopt Gnome 3. This time around, the decision isn’t as simple. Gnome 3.2 is more mature and we can see the potential of this new desktop and use it to implement something that can look and behave better than anything based on Gnome 2. Of course, we’re starting from scratch and this process will take time and span across multiple releases. Until then, it’s important we continue to support the traditional Gnome 2 desktop. We’re likely to release two separate editions, one for Gnome 2.32 and one for Gnome 3.2. We’re also working in cooperation with the MATE project (which is a fork of Gnome 2) at the moment to see if we can make both desktops compatible in an effort to let you run both Gnome 2 (or MATE) and Gnome 3 on the same system, either in Linux Mint 12, or for the future.

November is going to be a good month